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Killing The Voice: One Year On, Occupy Is In Disarray: THE SPIRIT LIVES ON!

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posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 02:51 AM
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Realizing that the Occupy movement has been dissected in every way possible, here on ATS and around the Interwebz - this article that his the AP newsfeed a few minutes ago caught my eye and contains some interesting facts, such as the Occupy movements funds being frozen and the originators of the movement discussing how it all got out of hand and, possibly, hijacked away from them.


NEW YORK (AP) -- Occupy Wall Street began to disintegrate in rapid fashion last winter, when the weekly meetings in New York City devolved into a spectacle of fistfights and vicious arguments.

Punches were thrown and objects were hurled at moderators' heads. Protesters accused each other of being patriarchal and racist and domineering. Nobody could agree on anything and nobody was in charge. The moderators went on strike and refused to show up, followed in quick succession by the people who kept meeting minutes. And then the meetings stopped altogether.

In the city where the movement was born, Occupy was falling apart.

The trouble with Occupy Wall Street, a year after it bloomed in a granite park in lower Manhattan and spread across the globe, is that nobody really knows what it is anymore. To say whether Occupy was a success or a failure depends on how you define it.

The movement had grown too large too quickly. Without leaders or specific demands, what started as a protest against income inequality turned into an amorphous protest against everything wrong with the world.

"We were there to occupy Wall Street," Dutro says. "Not to talk about every social ill that we have."

Hanging in the entryway to his Brooklyn apartment, like a relic of the past, is the first poster he ever brought down to Zuccotti Park. In black and gold lettering, painted on a piece of cardboard, the sign says: "Nobody got rich on their own. Wall St. thinks U-R-A-SUCKER."

He keeps it there as a reminder of what Occupy is really fighting for. Because despite his many frustrations, Dutro hasn't been able to stamp the Occupy anger out of his soul. Not yet.

Snippets culled from source article

The people got a voice and something went horribly wrong with how it ended up being used.

Did they try to tackle too many problems at once, thus diluting the message?
Did they pick a fight with a foe too large to conquer?
Were they infiltrated and misled from within?
Were they wrong?
Were they right?
Is their movement the blueprint for future forms of protest and change?
Did they accomplish anything?
Did they speak for us or just for anarchy?

If nothing else, those of us who refuse to give up the faith, and who continue to fight can use the lessons learned in this round to help formulate more effective strategies for future battles.

WSY ATS?

Is Occupy an irrelevant historical side note or just the beginning?

~Heff
edit on 9/17/12 by Hefficide because: stuff - typo in title - additional input




posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 03:13 AM
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I think they failed because they were a bunch of selfish people.

How can you protest about issues in the West when things are so bad in many nations that the West exploits?

People of the West are selfish, greedy, ego-centric, self important parasites.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 


Other than saying "generalize much"??? I'll simply reply by stating that many who identify with the Occupy movement did so because they dislike the economic imbalances both in America and globally.

Not all westerners are shallow, selfish, or egocentric. Many of us are not, in fact.

These sentiments you state are, to me, no different than the generalizations I read daily, and find myself disgusted with, claiming that all Muslims are barbarians.

Wide brushes don't paint very clear pictures.

~Heff



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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I think Occupy failed mainly because there was no message. At the beginning there was the 99% but to be honest 98% of the 99% had no idea what was trying to be achieved. After a few months, the 98% grew tired of seeing "filthy kids" blocking up the streets and causing more harm to the 'public' spaces that were occupied.
There still is no clear message or idea that the "occupy movement" conveys. The whole thing will go down in history as a throwback to the hippies of the 1960's but lacking purpose or direction.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 03:50 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


I think the whole Occupy thing fell apart because they had too many agendas going at once. I really have no idea though, I stayed away from all of that. It just seemed so childish to me. People would be camping out for months in parks, walking around with signs saying things like I have a college degree and I am unemployed. The only thing I could think about that was, well idiot, if you weren't hanging out in a park all day and actually were looking for a job you might just have one.......duh. Then you would see the people chanting we are the 99 percent! 1 percent of people control most of the wealth in this country! Not fair! Well, I don't make excuses for my self. The amount of money I have and my position in life are a direct result of the decisions I made. I am not one of the rich people, I knew I wouldn't be when I chose my career path. I could have studied to be a banker or a politician, something like that. But I chose not to. The whole mentality of it reminds me of the little kid at school whose mommy didn't put a lollipop in his lunch so he starts crying and acting a fool because he didn't get one. Then there's the people pissed off saying the banks are evil blah blah blah. I LOVE my bank. If it weren't for my bank I wouldn't be sitting here in this nice house I live in, wouldn't be driving the car I am or would have never been able to go to school. They financed all of that for me, I couldn't have done it without them. I don't know, I could just never see eye to eye on any of their issues. I absolutely support the right to protest though, even if I don't agree with it. I hope they get their stuff together again and accomplish something good. I just think they need to focus on one thing at a time instead of being a group of people trying to all go in different directions all at once in order to get anything done.
edit on 17-9-2012 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 


Other than saying "generalize much"??? I'll simply reply by stating that many who identify with the Occupy movement did so because they dislike the economic imbalances both in America and globally.

Not all westerners are shallow, selfish, or egocentric. Many of us are not, in fact.

These sentiments you state are, to me, no different than the generalizations I read daily, and find myself disgusted with, claiming that all Muslims are barbarians.

Wide brushes don't paint very clear pictures.

~Heff


I disagree. You can sing and dance about how Westerners have no responsibility but they do. We wear the scarlet livery of the Iron heel and we know it. We all do. Do we all stop? No.

And 'barbarians' come from the west. They always have. I also dont see what 'Westerners' have to do with 'Muslims'. Your statement makes it sound like you think its one or the other.

And I do not believe that any 'Occupy' protesters had any selfless motivation or understanding of the problems or solutions.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 

Dear Hefficide,

I never really absorbed the OWS "Spirit," or was ever much of a supporter, but I'd like to offer a thought or two, if I may.

The claim of the vagueness of the message was repeated so often, by left and by right, that it has to be considered a factor. Hard to tell how much of a factor, but in my mind it ties into another problem. They never won anything.

Consider the Tea Party. They got candidates to sign pledges, and they are credited with electing a sizeable class of new members of the House. I don't know what victories OWS can claim, and it's tough to keep up morale in the conditions they were working in, the tear gas they were receiving, the abuse from a significant portion of the press and the people, and on top of it all, not being able to point to any wins.

I'm not surprised that even the supporters had a hard time holding on to a reason for their presence.

Other factors? I think they took too many people in. I know you have to have numbers to be impressive, but it's the wrong impression when your movement is photographed with the homeless, violent, and addicted in the middle of it. (I don't suppose I have to mention the rape-free tent, or whatever it was called.) Further, I believe they lost some credibility when they didn't reject the support from groups generally considered to be unsavory. Didn't the Socialist Workers and CPUSA, get in on some of the marches? My memory is failing.

Sure they were infiltrated, but I don't think it was to mislead. My guess is that the agents were trying to get intelligence on the members, the leaders, and the plans. But there will always be infiltrators and their method of operating made infiltrating child's play.

They won over the angry, and those who wanted or needed to get something additional from society, some of the intellectuals, but that's about it.

The one opportunity that I wish would have been explored was cooperation between OWS and the Tea Party. OWS needed The TP's respectability and appeal, the TP needed OWS's fire and imagination. They could have cooperated on less government corruption, looser ties between big business and government, perhaps on the FED, and more, even, I hate to say it, "Power to the People."

I'm babbling, but I think that's a start. I believe they have to try something pretty different, maybe even drop the OWS name, to achieve some success. The current brand is tainted with, as you say, anarchy. I don't think America is in the mood for even more news films of riots in streets and burning buildings.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:09 AM
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reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 



Originally posted by freemarketsocialist

I disagree. You can sing and dance about how Westerners have no responsibility but they do. We wear the scarlet livery of the Iron heel and we know it. We all do. Do we all stop? No.


You are entitled to disagree, as am I. Many westerners spend their entire lives trying to help people from all walks of life, the world over. And I do not recall singing or dancing about western innocence or removal from responsibility anywhere in my posting history or personal life.

As for "scarlet livery of the Iron heel? Well name me a culture - or a government, anywhere, that doesn't have a sordid history, replete with tyrannical periods or acts.


Originally posted by freemarketsocialist

And 'barbarians' come from the west. They always have. I also dont see what 'Westerners' have to do with 'Muslims'. Your statement makes it sound like you think its one or the other.


I was merely speaking to the atmosphere of blind and ignorant hatred that seems be being fostered in two particular groups currently. The "them" vs "us" paradigm.

Oh, and historically the term "barbarian" referred to Germanic tribes to the north of Rome. In its modern context it is used as a cultural slur against persons from any geographic location.


Originally posted by freemarketsocialist

And I do not believe that any 'Occupy' protesters had any selfless motivation or understanding of the problems or solutions.


Beliefs and facts are not the same thing. To say "many" or "most" would lend your statement validity. But the inclusive language renders the statement moot as there is no way you can possibly validate it as accurate.

~Heff



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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Another OWS protest point some people were screaming about that made me just go WHAAAAAATTTTT? Was all of the people walking around saying corporations are EEEEEVVVIIILLLLL. We need to do away with corporations! All the while wearing clothes made by a corporation, holding their signs.....cardboard, stick, even the marker you wrote corporations are evil with......made by a corporation, sleeping in tents made by a corporation, eating food processed and delivered by some corporation, and coordinating all of your protests with your iphones and computers......guess what, made by a corporation. It's laughable.

edit on 17-9-2012 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2012 by billy197300 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by billy197300
 


That aspect I can address as a person who often speaks against corporatism. It is not that I hate capitalism or corporations. What I am concerned with is the power that these entities hold over governments globally, including our own. When Reagan deregulated so heavily it truly did unleash the corporate beast, so to speak.

Consumerism is meant to be an economic thing, not a form of governance.

________________________________

As for other other members replying, it is my hope to let this go a bit further, so that I can address concepts in a more general way than simply responding to each post.

~Heff



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Hi Heff,
Gee, I’ve had to restart this reply a few times simply because its difficult to specify what went wrong without breaking the T&C’s and sounding like a recruitment officer for the next time. Nuff said there.

From over here, on this side of the planet the issue was total MSM dominance of the issue – many here are/were oblivious to the movements aim and intent – they were portrayed as a bunch of dole-bludging tree hugging lazy so n so’s. And therein lies the conundrum.

How do you say WAKE UP PEOPLE and deliver the message correctly the first time with the full impact you want? Articulating the real culprits, the puppet-masters, is something I endeavour to do at every single opportunity – but I am only a single voice.

What I dream about is a total MSM blackout so powerful that regardless of what you watch or listen to, for say 72hrs, all you will get is that Youtube vid posted here on ATS yesterday articulating why WWIII is going to happen, followed by Thrive then Zeitgeist then rinse and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat until every waking soul understands the absolute ####fight we are in and what is needed to get out of it.

I forget the member but you remember a few weeks back the thread about how everybody is waking around in a bloody daze (dumbing down society I think it was called) – throw that in the mix as well. Its no good protesting wallstreet etc – its not just your(the US) fight – its everybodys - east west black white - if you have a heartbeat its your fight - these pricks care not for the 7+ billion of us - pitting us against each other constantly to make their job easier to do from the shadows whilst we fight amongst ourselves

Clearly their (OWS) leadership failed either directly or by design – I’m going with design (infiltration) because the philosophy IS a moral absolute – period.

A combination of anonymous tactics and military power is what is needed the next time – I reckon there will be only one more attempt – if that fails its the cashless chip (total control) or the FEMA camps (death) – too many people are becoming aware for them to execute their grab for total global dominance from the shadows.

Other than that – peace love and lollipops brah!

edit on 17-9-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


I agree with what you said, but add a bit of socio and psycho interpretation to it...

The Occupy movement was born of a widespread reaction to obvious injustices in the system. It was organic and caught on like a wildfire. What it lacked was a unifying voice - a face. And it's sad to be because Tom Morello has always stood out to me as a person with the right message, the clout, and the intelligence to be such a face.

Some might argue that he's too politically polarizing and "leftist". But I've seen him, in interviews, simply slay anyone who tries to pigeonhole him

~Heff



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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Occupy died when it got a bunch of money and the leaders wanted it. Simple really and I predicted it would happen. Oh well noting lost nothing gained



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:18 AM
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In my opinion the whole occupy movement has been a total failure. They have achieved nothing, their protests have been limp wristed and have the effect of alienating those whom they claim to stand for. They look like the petit bourgousie having camp in a field, with the knowledge that if it gets too cold they can go home to their parents. They do not represent those who are really suffering in society and as a result alienate those vey people.

They had no proper organisation, no leadership and frankly no idea. I was a supporter at first and defended them. I do agree with some of the issues they are trying to highlight, but they took a scatter gun approach to the issues rather than focussing on one goal.

What was success for ows? When would they know when they have achieved success?

Protesting gets you no where, you need to take positions of power, have some organisation and leadership.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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Please allow me to repeat what one poster has already said:

What I dream about is a total MSM blackout so powerful that regardless of what you watch or listen to, for say 72hrs, all you will get is that Youtube vid posted here on ATS yesterday articulating why WWIII is going to happen, followed by Thrive then Zeitgeist then rinse and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat until every waking soul understands the absolute ####fight we are in and what is needed to get out of it.

Clearly their (OWS) leadership failed either directly or by design – I’m going with design (infiltration) because the philosophy IS a moral absolute – period.

A combination of anonymous tactics and military power is what is needed the next time – I reckon there will be only one more attempt – if that fails its the cashless chip (total control) or the FEMA camps (death) – too many people are becoming aware for them to execute their grab for total global dominance from the shadows.

A powerful, passionate statement from one who clearly supports the cause. A statement that I will run from in terror.

Forcefully indoctrinate everyone to accept your side, not just because you're correct but because your ideas are a moral absolute. Everyone who disagrees is immoral and must be punished, probably by the "military power" half of the tools. Please understand that this will only persuade people who are leaning to joining Black Bloc groups anyway.

I understand that I am probably a running dog lackey of the imperialist war-mongers, but I think all this needs a little reworking.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


ETA: Charles 1952 - I have nothing but respect for those words of yours - I do not advocate violence only power to the people - all people, belief systems are fine. Moral absolute, to me, is Fairness for all - not just a few, at the expense of the many.

You're on the money, once again, Heff..........and please forgive me but I must get this off my chest:-

I've just read your link on Tom Morello and its people like him who can see the forest through the trees - others who label him are the suckers - plain and simple.

And therein lies the key to ridding the planet of this parasite - if this movement is to truly succeed then terms like left, right , blue , red, dem, rep etc etc have got to be dropped - but thats the game plan these freaks want - divide and conquer.

Would it be reasonable to say that your country is 50/50 (ish)? - polarized to the max. I've barely entered into ATS political forums but read lots with interest and I've got to say its amazing how many can't see the forest through the trees - totally absorbed in this "fantasy" of the 2 party scenario.

Romney this, Obama that, Ron Paul the other ??? - mean while the fat cats are laughing all of the way to the bank - every time.

Surely it can be seen that irrespective of which muppet gets the hot seat this or any other election, the real agenda remains unchanged - and Australia is no different - we just have a habit of ousting our "elected leaders" before their elections - but the agenda is the same - its global - so the fight must also be.

Mention the Gold standard then you see the hand of the real enemy.

I'm glad people like yourself can hit this home - The Big Picture. The 13 families, the Royals, the Federal Reserve, Bilderberg, the CFR, Rothchilds, Rockefellas, Carnegies etc etc - what they decide is what we have to comply with - and I for one have had enough of their dumbing down fiscal prison philosophy.

Now the flavour of the month is global division - US embassies, behead those who disrespect Islam, Iran, Israel, US, military build up in the Hormuz Strait, threat of financial crisis - the Dogs of wars are chomping at the bit.

All the worlds a stage and we are merely the audience - and the script (The Cosmic Conspiracy - Stan Deyo 1978) is playing out to a tee.

I'm ready to Rock and Roll - not for me - for my kids!

Knowledge is Power.










edit on 17-9-2012 by Sublimecraft because: added comment to Charles1952



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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Interesting to note this marginalization piece on the 1 year anniversary too. If I were a suspicious and analytically minded man I might look at the current events of late and conclude that there is an agenda...

Turn public opinion against the idea of organized protest so that future spasms of discontent will be much less difficult to contain and deal with.

Sounds a bit far fetched, but it does make perfect sense. In the wake of Occupy many states and cities passed some pretty strange "blue" laws - and a couple even got Federally passed - to keep the masses from having the ability to gather in staggering numbers.

Some history buffs might even see parallels in the story of the Bonus army.

Now... if the average citizen can be trained to perceive protest as militancy? Well then... think of the blow to freedom of assembly that might cause.

Today the President signed an Executive Order making it a crime to publicly gather in group of five or more for the purpose of voicing any political position or complaint. This comes after months of a public outcry for protection against mobs and mob mentality".
My fictitious little foray into possible future news stories...

Funny thing about our freedoms - we seem so eager to give them away when we're told it's for the best....

~Heff



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Occupy really defined for me how disgustingly owned the MSM is. This article would make me laugh if I didn't know that millions of people read it and believed it. I see your point in using the article but there's much better sources for media if you want to talk about Occupy.



Is Occupy an irrelevant historical side note or just the beginning?


Just the beginning in my opinion though this 'uprising' may not always carry the name Occupy. We are at the boiling point now, have been really for a long time... I guess we were like frozen veggies though and took a while to feel the heat. The awareness is out there now and spreading but that fact isn't changing anything, TPTB are even increasing the pace of our destruction. When the boom is lowered the people of the world will explode into revolt.

reply to post by freemarketsocialist
 



How can you protest about issues in the West when things are so bad in many nations that the West exploits?


What the hell kind of break from logic are you having? Wall St. is the heart of that exploitation.

reply to post by billy197300
 





Was all of the people walking around saying corporations are EEEEEVVVIIILLLLL. We need to do away with corporations! All the while wearing clothes made by a corporation, holding their signs.....cardboard, stick, even the marker you wrote corporations are evil with......made by a corporation, sleeping in tents made by a corporation, eating food processed and delivered by some corporation, and coordinating all of your protests with your iphones and computers......guess what, made by a corporation.


Duh. Perhaps they should walk around naked and write their messages in war paint on their bodies? What a strawman. It should only illustrate for you just how dominated by corporations we are. There's no small business pen makers, cardboard makers... etc, they all get swallowed up by the big guys.


reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


I understand your passion however, that would be brainwashing and removing choice... that is not liberty or freedom it's dictatorial and tyrannical just with a new face. People need to be free to be sheep as equally as they need to be free to be enlightened.

reply to post by mikellmikell
 


Care to provide links proving who, when and how this happened, oh psychic one?

reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


How can there be just one goal, just one message and would you care to share what that should be? Did you go to GA and inject your voice, if not then how can you criticize? They lost your support because they didn't carry a message that you failed to bring? Seems fair...



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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This is the expected outcome when useful idiots outlive their usefulness. At least they didn't end up in the gulags, yet.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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I'm not so quick to call OWS a failure. I personally know people who are now in local government largely because of the issues raised by the protest and the connections made with like mind people.

Some of the issues raised have become part of the conversations. Not really any solid changes you can point to but there has definitely been a change in thinking.

The movement rode a wave of excitement, feed by the media, and were slapped down in many ways. Remember the pepper spraying cop. There are still out of proportion reactions to protest to this day and yes they are still happening but on a much smaller scale.

Many people involved backed off from that form of protest, but the conversation goes on, and new ideas and approaches are being discussed. I and some friends are working on a project, not of protest but of creation, that directly confronts the issues raised by OWS.

Many, even most, people from whatever part of the political spectrum agree the things are messed up and need to change. Where the ideas come from that will bring about change for the better is anyone's guess.

I for one don't assume that because the MSM isn't covering something that means it's dead.



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