witness to the forest service 'crackdown'.

i spent a good chunk of the summer camping in both the kaibab and coconino national forests.
have done so in the past without any sort of problems or harassment.
rumors were flying concerning a few law enforcement rangers whom were raiding camp and writing 300 dollar tickets for 'living in the forest' and 'overstaying the 14 day limit'.
sure, limits are there for a reason, but after spending most of my life in the woods this is the first i've heard of this.
usually if you keep a clean camp and don't hog bizzy areas during the holidays, one was basically left alone besides a friendly welfare check on rare occasions.
this year the raiding of camps by rangers in swat gear was new to me.
i'm not sure if this is basically revenue generating or more like a form of extortion.
from what i've heard many just paid the fine and split.
some who fought had the fine dropped to 50 bucks, those who threatened to bring in a lawyer had the whole thing dropped.

Yeah, I have seen the same thing happen although not to me personally yet. I actually live in the
Tonto Natural Forest and spend my time there and also in the Coconino.

It would appear we are fairly close neighbors.

They are extreme bullies. Crash economy. Ruthless to homeless. Agenda 21 oriented.

And I say millions of homeless should just walk away and start their own eco villages and stand strong. I want everyone to support each other and start to homestead. And topple them by strong, numbers.

If all those without stable homes, living month by month, dangling over a cliff on a thread, gathered forces and united, this would be a huge start. Of course this couldn't involve those who are very dangerous. That needs a different type of work and more like a half way house with staff. But there are many families and singles stuck in that.

if the bottom 1/3 of the country pulled together, and went on general strike, the whole thing would grind to a hault.

reply to post by mwood


i've done quite a bit of the tonto over the years.
home is actually over in the gila of new mexico.
one friend told me that this is actually due to jan brewer asking the feds for a crackdown on illegals living in the woods, but who knows the actual truth?
i'll be spending the winter down in the desert, blm land mostly, will be interesting to see what the blm will be up to this year.

The NFS acts like they own the land; not just manage it!

I've encountered many gated-off roads and unannounced closures. Just last week I walked in after a sign prohibited motorized vehicles. I found what appeared to be an intentional slide across the road. It was a new spot for rockhounds and I'm sure the NFS wasn't going to allow that. Better to close the road because of damage--yeah that's it.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Actually there may be some truth in that. There are quite a lot of illegals around here living in the forests and growing pot fields. It's getting to be common place to be out riding ATV's and getting into someone's "crops" unknowingly and getting shot at. I always carry a rifle when riding around here anymore.

Spend much time in the forests and you will find poly irrigation lines running down the hills to valley areas. It don't take a rocket scientist to know their not watering the rocks & tree's.....

When your out and about around this area keep your eye's open and stay aware of your surroundings.

Originally posted by Unity_99
if the bottom 1/3 of the country pulled together, and went on general strike, the whole thing would grind to a hault.

If 1/8th of the country pulled together and stopped paying to live by these ridiculous standards we have fooled ourselves to believe are mandatory, it would all grind to a halt.

Unfortunately, for all of our society, you'll never get 1/1000 of the people to do this. Not until gas is $15 a gallon anyway.

reply to post by mwood


i've seen similar in a few areas, although the kaibab and coconino have very little water in most areas.
makes growing quite a bit more difficult.
illegal camps up here are not at all common, not many jobs.

reply to post by rubbertramp


I lived there for a summer in the 90s.
It was beautiful. The rangers had rule against
any open fire when they declared fire season.
A primitive campground host told me a camper
who was living in a car pulled a gun on him when he told
him he couldnt have a fire. How do you cook without a fire?
In that area the ground was completely bare
for 100 yards. I didnt see much fire danger.
The rangers ran the poor guy out.
Me I had a self contained camper so was a "good" camper and I
could cook inside on my 4 burner stove and oven.
The california sierras were nice in the summer too.
It was all free back then.
The national forest is supposed to be a Subsidized Playground
for the rich, not a home for the poor. Reagan/Watt tried to sell
if off to them in the 80s.

reply to post by Unity_99




More like they're not going to let bums live wherever the hell they want. You seriously need to take a break from here your posts reek of someone whos paranoid. As for the op...deal with it. There's laws you have to follow.Me thinks you weren't doing what you were supposed to.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Here's another strange tidbit to add to the mix, especially with hunting season imminent:

Last year, after bow hunting season but early in rifle season, a good friend of mine was hunting in Davey Crockett National Forest. He was called down out of his climber by non other than an FBI agent. They had FBI agents out in the woods checking licenses, deer tags, and for any violations they could ticket for. He even searched his vehicle. The agent said that Forestry was short handed so the FBI was helping out.

Now Forestry may have been short handed, but why wouldn't they get the local sheriff's department to help out? What's up with the FBI in the woods? It's just really weird to me. I never heard of such a thing before.

Originally posted by mwood
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Actually there may be some truth in that. There are quite a lot of illegals around here living in the forests and growing pot fields. It's getting to be common place to be out riding ATV's and getting into someone's "crops" unknowingly and getting shot at. I always carry a rifle when riding around here anymore.

Spend much time in the forests and you will find poly irrigation lines running down the hills to valley areas. It don't take a rocket scientist to know their not watering the rocks & tree's.....

When your out and about around this area keep your eye's open and stay aware of your surroundings.

The cartels and other illegal criminals who grow their fields in state and federal parks are a huge problem. Not only do they bring danger to park visitors but they are also very detrimental to the environment. They screw up water supplies to run their irrigation and they pump poisonous chemicals into the ground. I am surrounded by state land and they do it here as well. Helicopters are busy lately looking for the crops. I am glad they go after those poeple but the average park goer should be left alone to enjoy the parks.

The FBI is looking for drugs in the woods? Yeah, right. I guess they have to be ready for the Bureau Christmas party.

Has anyone considered that if a destabilization in society occurs, many people will flee to the woods and try and survive off the land, but at least away from crowds?

Perhaps the increased forest ranger security is in preparation for forcing people not to live on their own, in the woods, if any social rest was to occur.

Just a thought.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


Yes they are looking for drugs. The illegal Marijauna grows are extremely detrimental to the environments because of the manner in which they are done. California has a huge problem because of this. I'm not saying that that's all there doing but it is one of the big ones.

yes, i agree with some of the replies about growers and others, but, like i already said this is not so much a problem in the areas i mentioned in the op.
let me give a few examples of the crackdown i'm discussing.
a friend was camped near dogtown lake in the kaibab n.f. near williams.
2am and 3 vehicles roll up with lights blaring on his tent.
rangers start yelling to get out of the tent with hands up.
he yells back for them to identify themselves, was blinded by lights and could not see a thing.
he steps out of tent with pistol in hand.
rangers keep yelling and told him to drop the gun or get shot.
finally one steps into the light and identifies himself.
friend drops pistol and is tacked and thrown to the ground.
he recieved a ticket for overstaying the 14 day limit.
proved to the ptb that he was only there 3 days.
also proved that the ticket issued was for a campground, which was not true.
ticket was dropped and he is looking into filing some sort of harassment complaint.

another example is 2 female friends from flagstaff whom were issued tickets for the same thing.
they come to find out that in order to fight anything you must go through the forest supervisor.
none of this is done in the courts, which leads me to believe this is all a form of extortion.
they both said they can not afford the tickets and would rather spend a few days locked up than pay a 300 dollar fine.
charges were dropped after both threatened to get their employers involved, proving the tickets were bogus.
in certain areas, yes, i agree, illegals are camped in the woods and people are growing.
from what i'm seeing, the areas where this is more common are not being patrolled.
the areas i'm speaking of are just well known spots for family camping.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
reply to post by Unity_99

 

More like they're not going to let bums live wherever the hell they want. You seriously need to take a break from here your posts reek of someone whos paranoid. As for the op...deal with it. There's laws you have to follow.Me thinks you weren't doing what you were supposed to.

Oh my, you think? Nothing to worry about, every ocean we have is Nuked and poisoned from BP and all the lakes and main rivers. There is nothing to fear, they're not pulling off major life threatening, world threatening events on purpose?


You'd have to be mentally deficient to not notice what is going on man!

And you know what, any form of forcing people into substandard work for substandard housing IS SLAVERY, was born knowing that.

And as an experiencer, am pushed 24/7 to post, and work for awareness.

So NADA your ideas don't hold any water with sane aware people.