Anti-Japanese Demonstrations in China Getting Serious. (Pics)

My new pet theory is that China is leveraging its upper hand in the current $340 Billion trade agreement to try to get the disputed land.

“Japan is now more reliant on China for economic growth than vice versa. Its already weak economic recovery may falter. China will suffer less.”

China-Japan Dispute...

Originally posted by jude11
Demonstrations in this location turn violent

They sure love to take pictures.

And what's wrong with the masses lately? It seems that it is so easy to turn people against others. I guess that the prophecies were true:

reply to post by jude11

Here we have a report of what looks like a Western style "Appease the Masses" approach from the Chinese Govt. Keep the people angry at the Japanese and they won't pay so much attention to the economy, working conditions, Global Affairs, etc. Police just casually keeping order and allowing it to happen. Looks like it's working too.

Most Chinese support their awesome Government. Why wouldnt they? China has raised the standard of living for its people against all odds.

And are the Chinese afraid of their Government? No. They could easily get angry at their government if they hated it so much. Most Chinese support their Government.

And what are you talking about? China is going awesome. China does not need to distract its people. America does though dont they?

Funny how you turn this situation into an anti-China thread when China has done nothing wrong. Its almost as if Americans/Westerners think that if they can delude themselves into believing that China has some major problem, that will somehow prevent the fiscal cliff that America is just about to drop off.

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
reply to post by jude11

 

Here we have a report of what looks like a Western style "Appease the Masses" approach from the Chinese Govt. Keep the people angry at the Japanese and they won't pay so much attention to the economy, working conditions, Global Affairs, etc. Police just casually keeping order and allowing it to happen. Looks like it's working too.

Most Chinese support their awesome Government. Why wouldnt they? China has raised the standard of living for its people against all odds.

And are the Chinese afraid of their Government? No. They could easily get angry at their government if they hated it so much. Most Chinese support their Government.

And what are you talking about? China is going awesome. China does not need to distract its people. America does though dont they?

Funny how you turn this situation into an anti-China thread when China has done nothing wrong. Its almost as if Americans/Westerners think that if they can delude themselves into believing that China has some major problem, that will somehow prevent the fiscal cliff that America is just about to drop off.

It's not anti-China...It's anti-Government.

Please re-read the OP in full.

Peace

Am I wrong to see undertones of aggression against the West in Chinese aggression against Japan?

Japan is modeled on Western industrialism and tech/service economy.

If there is any dispute between North and South Korea in the near future it could be seen the same way.

China acting on claims for these islands may not be as much about land expansion as ideological expansion. Maybe they are much more hostile toward the Western economic/government system than is reported, and this is a first step toward an overall power grab in the future of global government/economic philosophy.

reply to post by jude11


This actually breaks my heart. I love both the Chinese and Japanese people. I don't want them at war with each other. From what I've picked up about those islands, they're crap. Does Japan need them to get away from all the radiation? Can't China lease the islands to them?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Ask yourselves:

Are these little islands really worth a global conflict with all the potential deaths it could cause?

If the "UN" was actually the good guys they claimed to be (which they obviously aren't), they would step in and declare the islands a "neutral autonomous territory" or something along those lines, denying both nations the area until further negotiations and discussions can be conducted to resolve the situation through compromise and diplomacy.

I like the sentiment of your plan, unfortunately it would take a military power to secure those islands and prevent either side claiming them. Then whoever is there becomes caught in the crossfire.

However, I agree that the UN should be looking at gathering together the largest "coalition" and demanding that both sides cease and desist immediately. That could result in numerous countries all sending forces into the area to protect the islands and prevent a war. In reality, that could give both sides an excuse to stand down instead of heading into all out war, but it could also involve those other countries in a bigger conflict too.

The best solution to problems like this, I believe, is sharing of those islands. It might be naive, but I would like to see China and Japan working together to settle the islands under a coalition government of its own. As there are no inhabitants there yet, this shouldn't be hard to start. Both sides win. I know that is ridiculously unlikely, but there was some success with the similar plan for the shared commercial zone between North and South Korea before the North messed it up with their idiotic attention-seeking antics.

In China demonstrations like this are State approved and nurtured. This is merely an extension of politics to (a) keep the local Chinese indoctrinated and show their Communist Party Overlords are in control, (b) send a message to Japan and the world that the Chinese autocrats have their end nicely covered.

Forgive the cynical outlook, but very little happens in China spontaneously - especially on this scale and not since Tiananmen Square.

Oh, look a change of Chinese Leader just happening too.

Regards

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by jude11

 

This actually breaks my heart. I love both the Chinese and Japanese people. I don't want them at war with each other. From what I've picked up about those islands, they're crap. Does Japan need them to get away from all the radiation? Can't China lease the islands to them?

The islands are barely a speck in the ocean and not large enough to escape to. It's about 2 things:

1. Oil and gas reserves

2. National pride

That's it in a nutshell.

Peace

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by jude11

 

This actually breaks my heart. I love both the Chinese and Japanese people. I don't want them at war with each other. From what I've picked up about those islands, they're crap. Does Japan need them to get away from all the radiation? Can't China lease the islands to them?

The islands are barely a speck in the ocean and not large enough to escape to. It's about 2 things:

1. Oil and gas reserves

2. National pride

That's it in a nutshell.

Peace

With all the shallow, violent, stupid people causing so much trouble around the world, and with all the wars, I have to call the 21st century The Embarrassment to Mankind.

reply to post by jude11


I don't get it either? I mean I have researched this topic much but if what you are saying is true and the Japanese paid for the island then why is it even up for debate? Sounds like China is just mad they sold it and now they're just trying to take it by force. Bullying their own customer.....Why though? Why is this island of such importance either way?

Flipping all those cares will help protesters get what they want! What a bunch of d-bags.

This has absolutely nothing at all to do with the disputed islands. Much like the ongoing unrest in the Moslem world which we are told is over a pathetic, laughable movie; it is about something much more. Anyone who has not read Oswald Spengler or Samuel Huntington should do so immediately. We are approaching a new era, one where a massive clash of civilizations is going to erupt. It has already begun in the West, now it is going to begin in the East. China would never fight Japan simply over islands being sold to Japan. Therefore it is deeper.

China must assert itself in the East as the energized, robust empire that is casting a shadow upon the land of the rising sun. Japan is intrinsically tied to the West, although part of a unique civilization of its own. By this I mean that as we in the Occident are finding our civilization crumbling, so too is Japan. And just as the Moslem world is exploiting this weakness in us, China is exploiting this weakness in Japan. Whether an actual war erupts or not is irrelevant in the long-term, just as a war with Iran is irrelevant in the long-term. What we are facing is something governments are sadly unaware of and the people have no comprehension of.

The world operates in cyclical patterns; civilizations rise and civilizations fall. America, Western Europe, and Japan dominated the world for centuries, not because they were evil cultures, but because they were robust cultures freed from illness. But, much like Rome and the other great empires before, all will come to an end. Now China is dominating the world and their domination will expand just as ours did during the last 5 centuries. Islam is spreading by demographics and as the old saying goes, “the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world”. Islam and China are the surging world powers as we in the West are being hauled off to the nursing home.

China has successfully used Communism just as how Turkey has successfully used Democracy; in the words of Erdogan, “Democracy is like a street car; you ride it as far as you need, until you get off.” China is now a world power with a healthy population, efficient government, bountiful resources, and a powerful tradition which they have not entirely abandoned. This alone would be enough to crush Japan; assuming no foreign intervention. However one cannot rule out a resurgence of Japan because, unlike in many Western nations, Japan has the capabilities of swiftly and effectively restoring a healthy civilization.

Originally posted by GrimReaper86
reply to post by jude11

 

I don't get it either? I mean I have researched this topic much but if what you are saying is true and the Japanese paid for the island then why is it even up for debate? Sounds like China is just mad they sold it and now they're just trying to take it by force. Bullying their own customer.....Why though? Why is this island of such importance either way?

As I understand it, the Islands are claimed by Japan, China and Taiwan too. But they were originally recognized as belonging to Japan, and they were handed back to Japan after the administration of the territory by the USA as a result of WW2.

So, they were generally accepted by the international community to be part of Japan.

It was only really when oil was "theoretically" discovered that China decided it had a historical ownership of the islands predating that of Japan. It seems a little unusual that China didn't seem to have any interest before the discussion of oil.

There is historical mention of the islands in both Chinese and Japanese cultural history, but Japan was the first to make use of them, the first to claim them, the first to be recognized internationally as the owners.

IMO, from what I have read about these islands, Japan is the rightful owner. They had people living and working there first, China seemed to have no interest in settling the island all the way up until 1972. As soon as it was suggested that there were oil and gas reserves there, and the islands were handed back to Japan, that's when China decided to start posturing and demanding that they were the rightful owners.

I actually don't think any nation has the right to claim ownership over any land. No one owns the planet, the ground beneath all of us is not for sale, because no one has the right to claim it and sell it. However, that's not how things work in our world.

But going from the history of the islands, the Japanese were the first to settle there. Even if they aren't there now. The international community recognized this, and China didn't seem interested in the islands back then.

I think China should go and have a word with itself. They are the aggressors in this instance.

The islands are barely a speck in the ocean and not large enough to escape to. It's about 2 things:

You're forgetting one thing:

Strategic location for the military.

If you look at where the island is, you'll see it has a pretty significant strategic location.

And I personally believe that's why China is making a bid for the island.


It'll bring them that much closer to Japan if they want to launch any military strikes of some sort.

Here's a pic:


www.japanfocus.org...

reply to post by detachedindividual


That's a shame...fighting over oil seems fruitless endevour in the long run. If China is that concerned with oil for the use of energy then maybe instead of fighting and threatening Japan they should try to invent energy solutions. Then again, I suppose the U.S. can't say any better what with our wars in Irag and Afghanistan being pretty much about resources too....

WE WILL KILL EVERY JAPANESE PERSON EVEN IF IT MEANS DEATHS FOR OUR OWN; EVEN POVERTY WILL NOT DETER US FROM RECLAIMING THE DIAOYU ISLANDS

I have got to say, this is the most stupid quote ever.

Funny I don't recall Britain ever saying something as stupid as this, but then again it's not about the UK.

China are just like NK when it comes to pride. They will say anything to get their point across.

It usually never makes any sense at all.

There has always been issues between China and Japan- going back centuries.

However, I do believe people were told they had to protest. One of those pics showed faux enthusiasm if I've ever seen it (company employees, fists raised, humorous karate pose = okay, we'll play along because we get a break from work to do it). China tells its citizens that they are going to protest, they give them nicely made banners and signs, and the people had better get out there and show solidarity (or else).

If you've ever spoken to anyone from communist countries current and past- this is a common theme they all have.

reply to post by LeSigh


Ding ding ding!! You win today's prize for being totally correct!!

Spot on.

Very much like NK's latest funeral for "Dear Leader"..............CRY! CRY NOW I SAID!!

I wonder if the memories of the Japanese in China in WW2 are still being remembered and that why there is so much dislike for them?