"China unveils its brand new stealth fighter: the J-31 “Falcon Eagle”. But it’s a copy of the

reply to post by steppenwolf86


They haven't done much in the way of hard maneuvering in the program yet, but everyone that has flown it talks about how responsive it is, and what a dream to fly it is. I have the feeling that it's going to surprise us with its maneuverability, but it's not going to be anywhere near the F-22 in terms of dogfighting.

I have the feeling that the B model is going to be a pig when it comes to the dogfight, just because of the different balance caused by the lift fan, and being heavier than the other variants. My thinking is that it's going to fall somewhere between the F-16 and the F-22 in terms of maneuverability.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by steppenwolf86

 

They haven't done much in the way of hard maneuvering in the program yet, but everyone that has flown it talks about how responsive it is, and what a dream to fly it is. I have the feeling that it's going to surprise us with its maneuverability, but it's not going to be anywhere near the F-22 in terms of dogfighting.

I have the feeling that the B model is going to be a pig when it comes to the dogfight, just because of the different balance caused by the lift fan, and being heavier than the other variants. My thinking is that it's going to fall somewhere between the F-16 and the F-22 in terms of maneuverability.

I think the F-35A will be respectable in comparison to the F-16.

The F-35B is only stressed for 7g as everything is pared to the bone, so its definite retrograde step as far as manoeuvrability (although better than what its replacing directly).

The F-35C has the poorest thrust to weight of them all although its probably an improvement on the legacy hornet its replacing (it not replacing super hornet). The C is the heaviest variant.

reply to post by justwokeup


I have the feeling though that even the C will surprise us. It won't be up to par with the A, but better than the B, and equal to if not better than the Hornet. The C might be the heaviest, but the weight and balance is more on par with the A. The thrust to weight ratio is poor, which means that in a dogfight you have to manage your energy better than you would have to with the A, but I think that even this model will surprise us. We'll find out soon, when they start the harder flight testing.

reply to post by Zaphod58


I did a little more reading, and it seems that the EM calculations rate BOTH the B and C as slightly superior to the legacy hornet with slightly better acceleration. So while it may not be a game changer, it is not a step backwards. Of course, this could all be propaganda and all of it is subject to different interpretations. Take a look at the controversy involving the Australian MoD and the RAND study for proof, should you need it.

Still, slightly superior to the early F/A-18 means the 35 is inferior to the Su-30 family, so one can only hope the Chinese take their lumps in developing their new fighters. As it stands, their schedule seems overly ambitious... If the US has had trouble delivering the F-22 and F-35 on time, you can bet the Chinese sure as hell will have 10 times more!

I have always wondered why the F-35 seems so pedestrian when compared with the new planes and rumors out of Russia and now China. What does the USAF know that they built the F-35 without thrust vectoring?(My guess on why the f-22 has 2d TV has to do with stealth) ATS and other boards love to drool about super maneuverability, perhaps the USAF knows something they are not telling us with regards to how useful it is in combat...

reply to post by steppenwolf86


There are reports that the F-22 has an energy drop problem with the 2-D thrust vectoring during WVR engagements. It gets into a situation where the energy drops as they are doing hard maneuvering using the TV. The 3-D thrust vectoring would be a lot more advantageous, but is heavier, and I think affect the stealth of the aircraft as well. So if they put the 3-D on the F-35 then it would affect the thrust to weight ratio more, so that might be part of the reason behind the decision not to put it on.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Does the Su-30MKI have the same issue? The new Malaysian ones have 2.5d, but the MKI is 2d although I think they can move independently and corkscrew?

reply to post by steppenwolf86


I haven't seen many reports about them, but I would assume that they would have something similar happening. My understanding is that it happens when they are in a high AOA maneuver. Seeing as how the SU-30 has a slightly lower thrust to weight ratio, I could see it happening, but not to the extent that I've heard it happening on the Raptor.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by boomer135

 

I am well aware that there will be more than one F-22, and there will be F-15s and F-16s, and F-18s and others out there as well. My point is that there are going to be times when the F-22 WILL get into a WVR fight, no matter how hard they try not to. Combat is unpredictable, and in a massive fight, there's no telling what's going to happen.

Zaphod, always been a fan of your knowledge. My question would be, during red flag exercises, when the F-22 was dominating everything else, all they had to do was fly fast and high and legacy aircraft couldn't catch them. You think this will be a tactic in a dog fight that they might not win?

reply to post by boomer135


More than likely. It's a great way to get away, since no one else will be able to keep up with them for long at the altitude that they are capable of hitting. If you have to disengage in a hurry, it's a great way to get out of the fight. Even if it's just for a minute or two to get a better picture of what's going on. The key is getting out in the right way, or you can still eat a missile on the way out of the fight.

reply to post by boomer135


This is the biggest reason the Red Flag dog fights can't be extrapolated well into real world engagements. It was a forced dog fight where the F-22 was handcuffed intentionally to remove many of it's advantages. If anything I am impressed with how well it did under such constraints. It's a tribute to it's engineering that a craft designed to completely avoid dogfighting was on par with a non stealthy craft who should do extremely well in dogfights.

Then there is the fact that neither one was using it's full suite of capabilities, although there is no way of telling which side would benefit more from a full 100% engagement, it could be the F-22 would fare much better, or much worse.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

The US has broken the laws of physics?

Wow.

No...You can easily look this up. It is a form of EM Frequency Manipulation and the F/A-22 as well as the B-2 uses it. China does not possess the Tech. Split Infinity

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


I agree, I think the public doesn't know about half of what the F-22 is capable of. We hold back so much during Red Flag and other exercises that we will never know until it's used in battle. We used to have fun with them during test phase because they don't show up on our TCAS at all. So we would try and capture them on the radar. no luck...

reply to post by boomer135


I think the Typhoon would match up well in a dogfight, I am not sure China can match the Typhoon, especially since the Typhoon forgoes all stealth technology to gain the advantages it has. But yes, I would love to see the F-22 in full combat action, that would be something.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by boomer135

 

I think the Typhoon would match up well in a dogfight, I am not sure China can match the Typhoon, especially since the Typhoon forgoes all stealth technology to gain the advantages it has. But yes, I would love to see the F-22 in full combat action, that would be something.

Groom Lake is the U.S. Proving Ground and there is a REASON WHY the F/A-22 has an internal Bomb Bay. It has been designed to deliver without warning TWO Small but Powerful Non-Nuclear EMP devices. We have larger EMP's that are Non-Nuclear but the F/A-22 can penetrate so easily and deeply into enemy territory that a good number of Raptors could take out completely the Command and Control of any Country before they even knew what was going on.

As for anyone who might say the Chinese have developed a Stealth Fighter/Attack Aircraft to RIVAL the F/A-22 Raptor...it is but a JOKE! An F-15C is more than capable of Shooting Down this new Stealth Chinese Fighter as it can be easily located by it's IR-Signature. An F/A-22 has ZERO IR-SIGNATURE! This is all about Propaganda! Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


And even though it hasn't even flown yet, you know this because......

Oh wait, it's not US.

And no, the F-22 doesn't have "zero IR signature". It has a majorly reduced IR signature, but there is no such thing as a jet engine with zero signature. You can reduce it to the point that it's extremely hard to detect from any kind of range, but you can't reduce it down to no IR signature.

reply to post by Zaphod58

The work of T.Townsend Brown years ago was a simple way to be able to perform EM Manipulation to Change EM IR-Light in a way that it cannot be detected. I suggest you read up more on this. Split Infinity

Oh screw it. Sure, whatever. Just not worth it right now.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


C`mon dude, are you just trolling or did you drink the cool-aid? For every imaginary American weapon you think up, I can think up two imaginary Chinese ones. Like did you know that the Chinese have the ultimate sound death cannon? For realz, just look up the work of Dr. Vladimir Gavreau. I think you need to read more. The F-22`s EM bomb won`t do **** against the Chinese Zeppelin mounted sound cannon. It`ll melt the pilots brain before the Raptor gets within firing range. It`s powered by the sense of unrelenting alienation of internet trolls everywhere and is thus immune to all EM interference. Stop being disingenuous and maybe try to contribute something other than crapping all over the discussion; or at least come up with a more creative line of BS than super top secret miracle weapons only American`s are smart enough to invent. You could at least try to make it entertaining. Orwell`s Effin` Ghost.

Here you all go...how to make an F/A-22 IR-Light Invisible.

Invisiblity cloaking at infrared frequencies
The definition optical frequency, in metamaterials literature, ranges from far infrared, to near infrared, through the visible spectrum, and includes at least a portion of ultra-violet. To date when literature refers optical frequencies these are almost always frequencies in the infrared, which is below the visible spectrum. In 2009 a group of researchers announced cloaking at optical frequencies. In this case the cloaking frequency was centered at 1500 nm or 1.5 micrometers – the infrared.

Link....en.wikipedia.org...

Have FUN! Split Infinity

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Oh no!! A fighter jet that is made in China?!!

I havent even seen a flippin' can-opener from china that survived more than 6 times of usage!

The only Chinese junk you buy or see is what US corporations design and use low paid Chinese labor to make for you.

Remember the Chinese Norinco AK-47's imported into America? Boy those things are made VERY VERY WELL.....China made M-14 rifles and exported them to America. Those rifles have forged receivers and are 10,000 times better than a current Brazilian made pot metal M1a you would buy from Springfield Armory which they call "American" made. lol!


The Chinese can make things very, very well. The reason we want to take Iran out is to cut China's fuel sources away because pretty soon....they're going to surpass the white man in technology.

Look at their research center looking at cells. They are getting to know how the atoms in cells work together. (Scalar Weapons)....which is why Britain wanted to keep the Nazi Max Planck Society going and pushed that Nazi research center into China to try and keep an eye on them.

But like us....China's real research center isn't where they say it is. The people "working together" in that facility are merely handled puppets by each respective nation submitting them.