To all my brothers, no matter where you put your faith.

I am a Christian as many of you may know. I have some views that differ from most of today's Christians. Because I believe God truly wants to make man Holy. He doesn't want man to be stuck in his constant struggle with sin.

You see today it doesn't matter what you believe. Religion is not important today. The only thing that is important is that I believe in us. Together we stand, separate we fall. We are all brothers, we all need each other. Sure as brothers we may not always see eye to eye, but we always are there for each other. If I convert anyone to believing in the Christ that I believe in and love it will not be by harsh words, but it will rather come from an expression of love.

No matter your race or lifestyle we are all in this together. We can't leave any of our brothers behind, so choose love. I don't have to agree with your lifestyle but I can still love you. I'll leave all the other stuff up to God; I'm going to let him carry that burden. I will carry the burden that Christ told me to carry. The burden that is light, the light burden is to live in love.

For anyone who can relate listen to this beautiful song my brothesr or sisters.

Mumford & Sons Timshell

reply to post by sacgamer25


Huh? "Most" modern day Christians agree with you, and btw, you didn't get some fresh revelation overnight, the idea that we should not live as slaves to sin and should strive for Holy Spirit empowered holiness was ripped off from Paul, Peter, James and John.

I don't want to be a man of constant sorrow either.......



I think it will be hard ,but we will get by.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Do we live in the same messed up world? Most of what I see is a bunch of sleeping people waiting to die. The church is filled with them. How many churches have you been to? How many of them are teaching people to pay/pray for selfish desires and wealth? So although I do acknowledge that there are believers who take to heart the words of Christ, even many of them judge their brothers. As Christians we are instructed to love not to judge.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Wouldn't it be even easier if people dropped their "different" Gods, forgot about religion and focused on having a good time while it lasts, instead of arguing and fighting about something pointless and non-existing?

reply to post by kdog1982


It's only hard because we make it hard. You see the message is simple if you choose to love than you will always be sastified that you did your best. Why argue when you can choose to love instead.

The argument carries a heavy burden, but choosing to love carries no burden and may lead to Joy.

I know we all don't live in the same situation, so for some of us that is hard. And maybe someone makes it hard for you but we can choose to love the rest of the world. Someday we will understand it all and heal.

reply to post by Consequence


I agree completely. But I like to be open with my views so I season my conversation with salt. Witch basically means that I give Jesus credit for my understanding of love.

You see I seasoned conversation; I have not forced the whole bottle down your throat.

Like I said this post was not about conversion but coming together despite our differences.

P.S. I know you meant that evolution stuff doesn't exist.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Good words. Listen to this chapter: AUDIO

The two thieves on the cross are pictured here as the Baker and the Cup-bearer. You are choosing to bear the cup. This is the thief that repented on the cross. To repent, we must believe and bear the burden while in prison. The Baker will hang on the tree. Living Water puts out fire.

Joseph is pictured as an Archetype of Christ from Genesis 37 to the end. This is a foreshadowing of Christ and the Church making their way out of Egypt. Shortly before the time of tribulation, each of these things picture stages before and after for the church. The next chapter introduces the famine that will happen by the coming East Wind that takes away the harvest during the second year of tribulation. If you keep reading, a tax comes followed by taking land and enslaving the people. This is coming to our world in the last day. The cup-bearers will be preserved through the time of trouble.

See this thread: LINK

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Do we live in the same messed up world? Most of what I see is a bunch of sleeping people waiting to die. The church is filled with them. How many churches have you been to? How many of them are teaching people to pay/pray for selfish desires and wealth? So although I do acknowledge that there are believers who take to heart the words of Christ, even many of them judge their brothers. As Christians we are instructed to love not to judge.

I am of the opinion that this is the preservation from God at work in the lives of believers. Why are they asleep? First, God is at work with those who are being called according to his purpose. We might perceive many Christians being asleep, but I can testify that they are also at work. Take my wife for instance. She is not one that likes to hear about the end of the world and she is not seeking that information. What is she doing? She is busy taking care of our family at every turn. She is serving in the capacity that she is called to serve in. We don't really know the stories or why people are moved the direction they are moved. Why have we been called here in this place? I can answer this by saying that I had a calling. Most of us would say the same. We hear the voice and know who is inviting us to action. I tend to see things the way you do, but in reality, I think that we misjudge the situation. When the next set of events begin to take place, watch what happens.

Keep something in mind. The multitudes have awakened from the dust.

2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

Paul said that this would happen in Acts 24

I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

What did he mean that the righteous AND the wicked would be resurrected?

Revelation 1:7

“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

In this thread on the Amnion of the womb, I explain what the clouds above represent. Christ comes to awaken the church in our confusion. When this happens, even those who pierced Christ will see clearly. How can they see unless they have physical eyes on Earth to see? The multitudes come back (All 7 billion) to see Christ return in glory. We will finally know our faith by fact. What affect will this have on believers?

What we are gearing up to see will be the most fantastic thing we have ever witnessed on this Earth. The stars will shine brightly in that day. Many of us are shining already. Many more will soon shine.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Do we live in the same messed up world? Most of what I see is a bunch of sleeping people waiting to die. The church is filled with them. How many churches have you been to? How many of them are teaching people to pay/pray for selfish desires and wealth? So although I do acknowledge that there are believers who take to heart the words of Christ, even many of them judge their brothers. As Christians we are instructed to love not to judge.

I don't use the exception to define the rule. That's an enormous fallacy of logic. Yes, there exists problems in the church, just as there was in the churches of Sardis, Thyatira, Corinth, and Galatia. But I have never been to a church like you are explaining, and I have been to a ton of different ones. I see some of what you are talking about on TV, but that doesn't describe your common church.

And you have the wrong definition of "judge". We are to DISCERN and EXHORT, not cut down and condemn. I don't have anything against you, I just don't like o see His bride attacked and drug through the mud. Either from outside the church, or inside of it.

reply to post by sacgamer25

even many of them judge their brothers. As Christians we are instructed to love not to judge.

Thanks for returning to ATS, sac. Missed you!!!
Yes, judging is inappropriate.

Have you, by chance, read "The Moral Animal; Why we are the way we are" by Robert Wright?

Very thought provoking text.

We are all so messed up. It's not all our fault....but, it's ours to manage.
Blessings to you, friend.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Do we live in the same messed up world? Most of what I see is a bunch of sleeping people waiting to die. The church is filled with them. How many churches have you been to? How many of them are teaching people to pay/pray for selfish desires and wealth? So although I do acknowledge that there are believers who take to heart the words of Christ, even many of them judge their brothers. As Christians we are instructed to love not to judge.

I don't use the exception to define the rule. That's an enormous fallacy of logic. Yes, there exists problems in the church, just as there was in the churches of Sardis, Thyatira, Corinth, and Galatia. But I have never been to a church like you are explaining, and I have been to a ton of different ones. I see some of what you are talking about on TV, but that doesn't describe your common church.

And you have the wrong definition of "judge". We are to DISCERN and EXHORT, not cut down and condemn. I don't have anything against you, I just don't like o see His bride attacked and drug through the mud. Either from outside the church, or inside of it.

edit on 16-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

I don't mean this to offend you but undoubtedly you will be offended. With that out of the way let me say that everything is according to God's plan and I am no one to question that plan. Because of this I am sure that today's Christian Church(s) is part of God's plan.

You see each time the Jew's (which all Christians are) fall away God steps in to cleanse his people. We have fallen away from the path. We have forgotten to be like Christ because we have no one who teaches us to be like him. It is again time for a cleansing. Whether this is the last time or simply another time I do not know.
The current church is not capable to teach anyone to follow Christ because the church leaders do not follow him. Through interpretation and traditions that have been handed down for at least the last 1700 years our church can only teach people to believe that Christ was real and died for our sins and was resurrected. Jesus himself says that true believers will do what he did and even more.

To follow Christ means to do what he did. What did he do? He worked with his hands, served his disciples, and loved all. His final message was to love as he did. The church leaders of today are not doing what Christ instructed. We our instructed to serve our brothers, not to be a burden to them. Anyone who is receiving an income from the congregation is not serving the congregation; they are only receiving from the congregation.

What does the bible say about Elders/Pastors and the members of the church and how they are supposed to act?

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

Titus 1:5-9 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

1 Timothy 3:1-16 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? ...

2 Corinthians 11:8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you.

1 Thessalonians 4:9-12 9 Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. 10 And in fact, you do love all of God’s family throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers and sisters, to do so more and more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

Acts 20:35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

2 Corinthians 12:13-16 For in what were you less favored than the rest of the churches, except that I myself did not burden you? Forgive me this wrong! Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you. For children are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. I will most gladly spend and be spent for your souls. If I love you more, am I to be loved less? But granting that I myself did not burden you, I was crafty, you say, and got the better of you by deceit.

James 2:14-17 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Luke 3:11 John answered, "The man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same."

Acts 2:45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.

This is how a Christian should act. Paul made it clear that Elders/Pastors were to be men who worked with their hands, who provided for their families without being a burden to the church. They were able to teach this lesson because this is what they were taught by Christ, who also worked as a carpenter. If the son of God felt it necessary to work and for his disciples to work to not be a burden to the church, why do we not follow this message today?

The simple truth is the church does not follow the example of Christ and because of this they cannot teach anyone to follow Christ.

What does Jesus say in his own words?

John 14:23-24 23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 8:34-38 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

John 8:12 12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

John 8:31-32 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

If you want to be free you must do what he said and follow him.

reply to post by wildtimes


I never completely left but I keep reading the same debates knowing that the posters are not looking to learn but only looking to be right. I have been busy listening to the spirit teach me how to love more effectively. I once thought I knew love but now realize how woefully short I was at understanding the depth of love. Most of what we grow up with and our taught about love fails to do anything but to make us selfish lovers. We love with the expectation of being loved and this is what we are taught.

What we should be taught is to love with no expectation. When Christ said follow me pick up your cross the burden is light. He was simply telling us to love our brother unconditionally and if we did this our burden will be light.

Since we have been raised to see love as something that is both give and take we do not know how to love unconditionally. We must mature in our understanding of the Holy Spirit to accept that love is the only way. Love always loves, regardless of the situation. I do not consider myself to have a full understanding of this but I hope to continue to learn how to love unconditionally both the one who returns love and the one who does not.

Honestly I haven't read much of anything since highschool. My knowledge of the bible and Christ comes from listening to it repeatedly while driving around for work. That and the Holy Spirit which gives me the wisdom to understand.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Why would you think I would be offended by that?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Maybe I was assuming more than I should. I have seen that you defend the church at times, and what I said is a little less than flattering to those who hold the modern church in high regard.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Maybe I was assuming more than I should. I have seen that you defend the church at times, and what I said is a little less than flattering to those who hold the modern church in high regard.

Not every "church" is part of the Ekklesia. She is the invisible bride of Christ. Every church has members of the Ekklesia, but not every person who attends church is part of the body of Christ. And maybe it's my knowledge of church history and NT survey, but society and the church isn't any more or less corrupt and broken as it was in the days of the apostles. That's why pastoral exhortational epistles were needed to be written.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Do we live in the same messed up world? Most of what I see is a bunch of sleeping people waiting to die. The church is filled with them. How many churches have you been to? How many of them are teaching people to pay/pray for selfish desires and wealth? So although I do acknowledge that there are believers who take to heart the words of Christ, even many of them judge their brothers. As Christians we are instructed to love not to judge.

I don't use the exception to define the rule. That's an enormous fallacy of logic. Yes, there exists problems in the church, just as there was in the churches of Sardis, Thyatira, Corinth, and Galatia. But I have never been to a church like you are explaining, and I have been to a ton of different ones. I see some of what you are talking about on TV, but that doesn't describe your common church.

And you have the wrong definition of "judge". We are to DISCERN and EXHORT, not cut down and condemn. I don't have anything against you, I just don't like o see His bride attacked and drug through the mud. Either from outside the church, or inside of it.

edit on 16-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Don't you just love it when someone takes "judge not" out of context? They ignore the John 7:24 part.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I do not take judge not out of context. In John 7:24 Jesus is telling the people to make a decision for themselves based on truth. They were judging his actions based on jealousy, they were ignoring the fact that he was performing miracles that must have been from God and simply judging based on the words that he spoke. If someone is healing the blind and raising the dead it is fair to say that you should assume that this power is coming from God so the words that they speak are also words from God.

He was not instructing the people to be judges but merely telling the ones who were judging him to at least make a correct judgment based on everything that has happened.

Christians are way too focused on other people's sin. No one escapes judgment for there is no favoritism. God will judge the Jews/Christians and Gentiles with the same righteous judgment based on the works of one's life. We are instructed to love and encourage our brothers to stop and walk away from their sin. What we are told many times in the bible not to do is judge them. We should discern for ourselves, or rather with the help of the Holy Spirit, what is right and wrong. But we are not told to condemn our brothers. We are strongly warned against this when it says whatever measure you use will be used against you.

Jesus says whoever is without sin cast the first stone and no one cast a stone. But today's Christians are casting verbal stones all the time. What is it that you don't understand? Unless you are without sin stop casting stones and start loving instead. Leave all judgment, except for self judgment up to the father.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I do not take judge not out of context. In John 7:24 Jesus is telling the people to make a decision for themselves based on truth. They were judging his actions based on jealousy, they were ignoring the fact that he was performing miracles that must have been from God and simply judging based on the words that he spoke. If someone is healing the blind and raising the dead it is fair to say that you should assume that this power is coming from God so the words that they speak are also words from God

Satan can counterfeit miracles man, how do you think the Son of Perdition fools so many jews? It is written that the jews require signs to believe, and he'll give them plenty to get them on his side for the first 3.5 years.

Heylel has some prophetic requirements to meet before the jews will accept him as messiah. He has access to the scriptures just like we do, he knows everything we know and most likely more and he's had thousands of years to study us.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Maybe I was assuming more than I should. I have seen that you defend the church at times, and what I said is a little less than flattering to those who hold the modern church in high regard.

Not every "church" is part of the Ekklesia. She is the invisible bride of Christ. Every church has members of the Ekklesia, but not every person who attends church is part of the body of Christ. And maybe it's my knowledge of church history and NT survey, but society and the church isn't any more or less corrupt and broken as it was in the days of the apostles. That's why pastoral exhortational epistles were needed to be written.

You see your not understanding me. And it's ok, some of the folks on this site do understand. Look at what EnochWasRight and me are saying. I'm not asking you to believe me nor am I trying to convert you. You already believe in Christ, I'm just trying to teach you how to love your brother. I don't know of any true church, except for Christ.

Everyone, from every culture everywhere loves the Christ. Everyone that has heard his words acknowledges that Christ taught a righteous way of life. Even atheists agree with Christ way of life. What they don't agree with is a Christian Religion that can't even figure out what it believes. That is what outsiders see. So rather than discuss which church is which, and when this event or that will happen. I do the one thing that Christ left as instruction. I love my brother, and because I see all men as my brothers, even my enemy has become my brother.

I would lie my life down for my brother if the father put that in my way. You see my life is up to my father and my brother paid the price to set me free. So now that I know Grace I can adequately show it to others. Every time we make a choice we have the choice to choose love. Christ said if you choose love your doing the will of the father. So if I love my brother and give myself as a slave to God/Jesus/Love, than I will always do what is loving.

This does not by any means that I have perfected this love thing. I may never perfect it. But why not try? Trust me choosing to love over yelling; love over jealousy, or love over envy, is a much lighter burden than choosing to be angry or jealous.

We were made in God's image. We were made to love but we have fallen short. But we can all choose to get better. You see even though I disagree with all of today's modern Christian churches, the disagreement although worthy for debate should not separate me from my brothers.

We all believe in Christ, the words that he spoke. What we don't agree with is who he really was? I know what I believe but if you believe that he was someone other than me, why not at least believe in what he taught. Because if you believe what he taught then you ought to do it.

Does anyone disagree with the lifestyle Christ promoted? Wouldn't the world be a great place if everyone served like Christ? So to all my brothers, Can we all agree that we should try and be a little more like him, even if we can't get it perfect? Even if you think he was a fictional charcter?