Film protest: Egypt PM urges US to end 'insults'

reply to post by Crakeur


I really don't know Crakeur, when I believe in something I am somewhat always right call it extensive research and deep intuition, base on my perceptions, I try to be fair and balance, but the recently worldwide agenda been wagged against the US specially us the citizens has raised something that I thought was death inside me.

Patriotism.

Somewhere behind all the mess that is going on right now is an agenda, to tell the truth I honestly don't know if this coming from our government or from outside forces or in between.

But an agenda it is, I got the feeling that is not going to be pretty any way you slice it.

BTW the maker of the film was taken by the police to be questioned today, his past runs with the law has been also made public to ensure that we all know he is of very questionable background, while he could not be arrested for making a film, he can be charged for parole violations

This is developing right now.

reply to post by benrl


I don't agree with purposefully insulting someone, but thats our right as Americans.

its constitutionally protected speech, even if its coming from an A-hole.

Egypt needs to get that through their head, most countries do, your people have a RIGHT to express themselves even if you don't agree with it.

oh come on you dont agree with your rights?? and these rights are yours because you are american? speech even that from an ahole is constitutionally protected? are you sure? perhaps only if coming from an ahole? there is no such thing as freedom of speech it is not some universal right it is only allowed in western democracies for constructive engagement the minute it is deemed as destructive one is flouting the law is deriding the prophet the prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him) in particular destructive or constructive? these demonstrations are surely a misconceived right of self-expression and self-identification probably as a result of your governments foreign policy and a western advancement imposing freedom as the highest ideal which by the way means what? (freedom) speakers corner and squatters rights have been replaced with hostels or hovels reminiscent of conditions pre-french revolution we now are provided with free speech zones where you will be listened to watched and quite possibly detained without trial this right you speak of to express yourselves contradicts the respect and honour of whatever third party is transgressed against we the west want equality of rights for women but we forget about tangible respect in this pursuit of illusory rights Franz Fanon saw this with the civil rights movement demanding equal rights of nothingness instead of exploding lil theory by the name of kettle xx tea and shisha for all or are you anti tea too?

Originally posted by marg6043

I really don't know Crakeur, when I believe in something I am somewhat always right call it extensive research and deep intuition, base on my perceptions,

A woman claiming she's never wrong? There's something I've never heard.

My wife will tell you she's never wrong either and she doesn't think he's a muslim.

someone's wrong and, based on the facts, the scenario surrounding the man and my total fear of spousal reprisal, I'm saying my wife's right.

Lastly, and I tell my wife this regularly, never being wrong doesn't mean you're always right.

reply to post by Crakeur


Thanks Crakeur for the laugh, I am glad you side with your wife, I will not have it any other way, my husband does the same just to keep the peace.



I can not get into an argument with you, no matter what, I always love your posts.

Peace my friend.

reply to post by benrl


Well Mr Qandil, I do understand your initial point that your group wanted a peaceful protest and the rest of the Muslims ruined it for you making things ugly, but you are no better that the Muslim Brotherhood and I can prove it by your own words.


You say,

"At the same time we need to reach a balance between freedom of expression and to maintain respect for other peoples' beliefs."

When asked whether he thought the US should change its laws governing freedom of speech laws, he replied: "I think we need to work out something around this because we cannot wait and see this happen again."

"This is a small number of people doing irresponsible work and everybody's paying the price."

The link between the US and Egypt was, he said, "a relationship that we need to make stronger based on mutual interests and respect for sovereignty".

www.bbc.co.uk...

How can you say you respect American sovereignty which includes freedom of speech and freedom of expression and yet say you want us to change our laws to cater to your Muslim beliefs?

You are no better than the Muslim Brotherhood ( an extremist faction) who called on all western countries to make it a crime to insult Muhammad. Sorry pal but you neither respect American sovereignty or understand our concept of freedom of speech or are a shill for the Muslim Brotherhood ( which seems likely)

Look at the thread in my sig file. The filmmaker is thinking about releasing the full movie on YouTube. I can't wait till that happens. It will most likely uncover more extremist Muslim idiocy.

This film or anything said about Muhammad was never the problem. Muslims have to take responsibility for their own actions and act like the grown-ups they are supposed to be.

Egypt PM urges US to end 'insults'

Actually, the BIGGEST insult is the nearly $2,000,000,000.00 we give Egypt in aid EVERY SINGLE YEAR since Camp David. I don't know how anyone else here feels, but given that we are 1 trillion in debt, that money could go to better use here in the US. Why should they get one single penny, when they riot and storm our embassy. Let them eat cake.....but not ours.

Another oddity - now that the story has changed, and we are told that this guy is a coptic, and he's linked to egypt, why aren't there attacks against coptics and egyptian interests?

reply to post by Crakeur


In case you missed it the Coptic's were being attacked in Egypt. A few threads were written about also I find it funny that in countries that people barely have enough food and such have access to the internet and watched a video made in the US. Stretching things abit if you ask me. Now the powers that be in these countries do have internet access and will use things like that for their own ends. As for insulting Islam, well the attacks perpetrated by the "extremists" is a insult to every religion. No religion has not had issues w/ Islam. Hindu, Christian, heck even other Muslims of different sects. The lie of peace is wearing thin.

reply to post by hangedman13


the video was shown on egyptian television I think.

I didn't see that they were going after the coptics. Odd that it doesn't make the news.

Also, where's the ususal jihad on the filmmaker? Salmon Rushdie writes a book and they call for his head. This guy has, apparently, done far worse and, yet, he's not afraid to go out at night?

So the next Muslim we see in Iran or Afganistan insulting anything from say... Christianity... we are supposed to assume that the government would intervene and remove them??

Muslims and Islamic leaders are nutters. They really are.

reply to post by benrl

Where are the calls to not insult other religions, say like Christians or Jews?

You are joking right? If Christians don't get their way or anyone says anything that offends them they start crying war on Christianity. If you say anything to a Jew or don't let them do as they please they start crying antisemitic. Jews have used the antisemitic war cry so much and gained so much influence that California has recently passed a law making it illegal to criticize Israel on college campuses.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by hangedman13

 

the video was shown on egyptian television I think.

I didn't see that they were going after the coptics. Odd that it doesn't make the news.

Also, where's the usual jihad on the filmmaker? Salmon Rushdie writes a book and they call for his head. This guy has, apparently, done far worse and, yet, he's not afraid to go out at night?

As soon as the filmmakers identity became public he went into hiding. When the sheriff picked him up he covered his face so no one could see what he looked like.

The filmmaker is an Egyptian.

Why is nobody bringing this up?

Send him back to Egypt, let them deal with him.

reply to post by Bluesma

I share you're views, ma'am. You express them very well. Sadly, it seems there is no good answer to this problem. Mature individuals on both sides of the cultural divide will exercise tolerance and restraint; but ultimately, the overgrown children are the ones who make the noise and make the running. Liberal democracy probably has the advantage over Islam when it comes to tolerance – it's mandated in our culture, actively discouraged in theirs – but that doesn't really make a difference on the ground. I fear a clash of civilisations is inevitable.

*

reply to post by denver22

i love my country and have never felt offended in all my life for getting arrested for just displaying the national flag.

The national flag of your country is the Union Flag, not the Cross of St. George. England has no existence as an independent state. Any you, sir, may or may not be a racist, but this much is clear: you sound exactly like one.

Flying St. George's cross from a building site while Muslims are passing by, forsooth. Why didn't you just unzip yourself and have a little wee in their direction too? I mean, if you're being childish, you might as well go all the way.

reply to post by SrWingCommander

The muslim world doesn't remotely grasp our freedom of speech. The general thought is that if this (the film) is on youtube, then the government or someone in power must have approved or sanctioned it. That's what has to happen in their country. They don't have anything close to a concept of freedom of speech like the US does.

You are absolutely right. And it isn't just the Muslim world, either. It's most of the world.

All the countries where democracy hasn't visited or hasn't taken hold – including my own country in South Asia, where Muslims are an increasingly threatened minority – are just the same. The majority of the populace in these countries think the governments and laws in places like Europe and America are just like their own. And when they're given democracy and freedom they have no idea what to do with it; most of the time they just end up giving it back.

They don't know any better, but it's hard not to get angry and frustrated sometimes. Especially when you yourself are the citizen of a country like this, but are fortunate enough to have learnt better. You want to share your understanding with your fellow-countrymen, but most of them are just not capable of understanding. Neither, I'm sorry to say, do they want to. It's far easier, and apparently far more satisfying, to be blind, angry and stupid. Weird but true.

i know i'll get flamed for this but until we reach a point where there's no money and greed we'll always have war and here is where i'll get flamed, the controlling parties need to stop watching the polls like a stock ticker tape machine back in the 20's and stop listening the faux enlightened and destroy anyone who even looks at us cockeyed out of the corner of their eye and just obliterate them, it's time we utilize the billions upon billions of dollars spent on the american military machine. loss of life will be less, less in the fact that there will only be dead enemies. listen, there's no way we're even close to any kind of evolution in a zen like, utopian civilization so i harken back to my hardcore days and remember a song by one of my favorite bands called Negative FX i hated the ideology at the time though but it was called.. "Might Makes Right" but now, for me, it takes on a whole new meaning so yeah it's time we stop all the flexing and take action. someone posted in one of the other threads about all the BS going on since that video was posted that what's going on isn't really just about the video, instead, it's just the straw that broke the camels back, meaning, if you bottle up so much rage it's eventually going to explode and this time, to me, it feels different and it worries me because because this could actually for real and if we don't stop it now we're fubar! so all you vegetarians join us carnivores and stop being weak easily controlled pacifists and choose your side now. i'm definitely not bashing anyone's religion, in fact, i don't blame any muslim for being this enraged.. i'd be just as mad if my Father was attacked in the same way their prophet was, i'd be mad but wouldn't murder though. anyway.. all i'm saying is.. it's time to stop being "politically correct" war, take everything, leave country, simple as that. i know i'll be hated for this way of thinking but at this point i don't care, something needs done and it needs done fast. president obama, if you're reading this, pull the yes-men out of your a-hole and get the battle ships and jets fueled up now! stop tickling the ballzzz.

all you self-congratulatory, faux-enlightened members don't take this so seriously it's just an opinion of a lesser educated, manual laborer who's worked in construction all his life and just fed up with everything going on and happy that i can vent at such an awesome forum. Thanks ATS!!

Originally posted by Astyanax

You are absolutely right. And it isn't just the Muslim world, either. It's most of the world.

All the countries where democracy hasn't visited or hasn't taken hold – including my own country in South Asia, where Muslims are an increasingly threatened minority – are just the same. The majority of the populace in these countries think the governments and laws in places like Europe and America are just like their own. And when they're given democracy and freedom they have no idea what to do with it; most of the time they just end up giving it back.

They don't know any better, but it's hard not to get angry and frustrated sometimes. Especially when you yourself are the citizen of a country like this, but are fortunate enough to have learnt better. You want to share your understanding with your fellow-countrymen, but most of them are just not capable of understanding. Neither, I'm sorry to say, do they want to. It's far easier, and apparently far more satisfying, to be blind, angry and stupid. Weird but true.

This has been my experience too. I hate to say it up here sometimes, because I also don't want to lump people into bad generalizations and increase trends in racism, but where I am too, the people from arab countries give the impression, through their behavior, that they just cannot handle freedom and worse, they consider that any authority which gives it is weak and just begging to be walked on!
We have the largest muslim population in Europe, and they mock publicly our laws and police.
I wince when I hear it, but very often people bring up the possibility that such peoples usually have a very rash and extreme government or dictator in place because they need and want it.
These people cannot control themselves without a big hand over their head.

I wouldn't suggest they are less evolved humans or anything, but I would suggest tentatively, that their culture conditions this very young and they need time to evolve their culture before such freedom could be beneficial?

I don't know. I work with animals, and one thign I know is that when you get a horse that is used to a very severe master, you cannot begin work with it through subtle gentle quiet only. You must begin at the level they are accustomed to, just to get their attention at first, and bring down the level with time.

With some animals that have been supressed for a long time, they have to go through an explosion of energy first, in which all the pent up energy goes everywhich way uncontrollably. Best to keep a distance when that happens and let it run it's course. I suggest humans have similar mechanisms in their bodies and psyches.

The idea that an immediate rescue and transformation of a being (or even an entire peoples) can be done in a blink with just effortless release is an illusion! We all love the idea of being a rescuer worshipped and appreciated for coming and introducing freedom, and love and all, but in general, that is contrary to reality.

reply to post by benrl


Your "freedom of speech" ? You people are making our prophet into a joke.. This is unacceptable.. very disrespectful at the same time. We are a religion of peace, get out of your cave and look at the bigger picture, the way your seeing things isn't helping you or your future at all.

Disgusting...

Originally posted by Zatox
reply to post by benrl

 

Your "freedom of speech" ? You people are making our prophet into a joke.. This is unacceptable.. very disrespectful at the same time. We are a religion of peace, get out of your cave and look at the bigger picture, the way your seeing things isn't helping you or your future at all.

Disgusting...

It is bad taste, it lacks tact, admittedly. But it is not a physical attack. You have power over your emotions, and whether or not you let something bother you. Claim that power and use it- it is to YOUR advantage if you do. A person who chooses not to get emotional has their rational thinking empowered, therefore their perception and strategic skills sharpened (did you ever think some powers might WANT to provoke you to get upset so you lose that and act like apes???)

In our culture, people are allowed to mock each other. Even in a predominantly Christian based culture, you find jokes, sketches, movies, which make fun of Jesus and the Bible. In fact such expressions are a good venting system for pressure and friction- sometimes a few jokes can avoid a fistfight. Once people get things out verbally, they feel less impulsion to act them out, and often can then be more tolerant. Humor can be effective that way.

I won't try to tell you that you must be the same- only making an attempt at explaining a bit a different culture, so even if you don't like it, you might have a comprehension of it.

This all reminds me of the South Park fiasco of a few years back.

I think people should be able to use any religious figure they like in their comedy and mock any and every religion.
It's pathetic that this kind of stuff happens in the 21st century.

I'm sure the film is crap and I have no intention of seeing it, but people should be free to make films that are offensive, funny (or unfunny) and mean all they want.


I remember after the South Park thing, people on facebook (or somewhere) had a "Draw Mohammed" contest and lots and lots of people drew many funny, good, offensive and just lame things, in solidarity with the Creators of South Park, who never did show Mohammed on their show... despite several years earlier doing so and all other religious figures and nobody batted an eyelid.

This whole thing is just ridiculous... it's embarrassing.

reply to post by Bluesma


We Muslims don't joke when it comes to our religion, if you have read the Holy Quran you would understand this too, don't try to explain to me how things work when it comes to emotions, throughout the years people have been bashing on Muslims, just because one stupid American President decided to attack his own country, then points the finger on Muslims, Doesn't work that way, we will never ever forget the innocent people killed in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Syria.

You want to mock your own religion go nuts, leave our one out of it.

This will only make things worse for everyone, the more mockery there is on Islam the more crap everyone is getting into, step back and think for a second, you want your children's children to live in a world with hate/war? All because you think it's "ok" to make jokes about religion and their prophets? It may be acceptable in which ever religion you are, but not in mine.

So in other words, NO i will not sit back and pretend this "joke" is ok, because in reality it isn't, so get your comment and explain that to over 1.5 billion muslims around the world, see how they handle that kind of "lecture"

PEACE.