It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Stop helping in covering up lies in the bible

page: 5
6
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 05:11 PM
link   
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


"You don't get to pick who the Creator is. He is who is says He is."

Did God himself actually tell you who he is or did another human being or an old book tell you? If you are hearing voices that say they are God, you really need to go see a doctor....auditory hallucinations are a big red flag for schizophrenia. Clozapine, Risperidone, Olanzapine, Quetiapine, Aripiprazole, Ziprasidone, Paliperidone are all very common medications that will help the voices go away. If you let someone else tell you who God is then you are just gullible and as far as I know they haven't made a pill that will help with that yet.




posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 05:20 PM
link   
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 




You pick and choose what God you want. That's your problem. You don't get to pick who the Creator is. He is who is says He is.


Isn't that what you do? When was the last time you participated in the stoning of an unruly teen, as is commanded? Why do you choose to ignore that law? What about shell fish and pork? Do you eat them? That's an abomination!

So, I guess the answer to my question is that you do worship the God of the Old Testament. How do you know that he is what he says he is. If I was to judge a "tree by it's fruit" I would swear that that the guy from the Old Testament is not a loving god, yea, not a god at all.

But, you believe that he is. Why? Because some book says so?


That being said, if you had actually read ALL of the Old Testament, you would know why all of those things happened and why God gave those people to Israel.


I have read the entire Bible, many, many times. Maybe you should read it again instead of hypocritly turning a blind eye to your God's vulgarity and your use of him in defending man's justification for war, murder, slavery, rape and the overall dehumanizing of the true GOD"S creation.



All things belong to God. However He chooses for His will to be enforced is His to decide. You are not your own. I am not my own. If He wills either of us to die a certain way, so be it.


I disagree. All things are the manifestation of God. Your God is not my God. Do you now have the right to kill me? According to the word of your God, you do. How can we trust believers not to kill us as their God has commanded?


However, He did send Jesus Christ to save us from our sins, to make everyone, no longer only Jews, an heir to the Throne of God through Him (thereby making all the people of the world Israel and no longer just the Jews; which is why God no longer uses His people to punish entire cities or nations; but instead sends them out to convert the unbelieving because all now have access to the Kingdom of God, because all people belong to Jesus Christ; except that one must accept to be a part of Israel, which is no longer a country of land [which thing happens to be an established country according to the order of men today, not God] but a country of people - as it always ways, actually; He called them Israel when they were in captivity as well).


Jesus never made these claims. In fact, he said:


Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Shouldn't Christians be out enslaving and raping, and stoning teenagers still?



You have not performed your research and your heart is not right - by the very fact that you say that God is not the god that you choose for yourself. You have only sought to justify God's good instead of God's wrath. The Creator has a right to His anger and to His wrath; much more so than you or I ever should claim. You do not have authority over Him and what He does; for you to question it and justify yourselves instead of to justify the Lord, who does all things for a purpose, is childish and foolish at best.


That's right. I reject the God of the Bible. I see no reason not to, and every reason to do so. It is so typical of people like you to just say that "your heart is wrong" because you don't believe what I believe. If your statement is true, and I am doomed to God's wrath for not believing in Bible stories that condone the most ugly part of man as being divine godliness, then free will is a myth and an illusion. The Ten Commandments are bogus, as God continually demands they be ignored and broken.


That being said, also, if you claim that you do not love the God of the Old Testament, then you cannot possibly love the God of the New Testament. If you had paid attention you would recognize that Jesus Christ Himself, before He was born in the flesh, was and is the very God that performed the works of the Old Testament.


Nope. I don't believe that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, or any other God. He was just a man.


And if you forget also, the Lord will judge the world harshly again. Do not mistake His kindness for weakness. He is a strong God. The people of the world and their picking and choosing of their gods will suffer even more greatly than Israel did after they rejected Christ. Why? Because the whole world, not just the Jews, have rejected.


Oh. goody! "In closing, you're doomed and damned!"


Honestly, I find it amazing and awful how readily so many Christians are to believe that they are unaccountable to the laws of the Old Testament, and yet defend the maniacal, murderous, blood sacrifice loving, behavior of what you call God.

Tsk, tsk.



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 05:28 PM
link   
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


I was agreeing with the OP and speaking to Wind not you. You insulted me first by saying "I can already tell by your attitude and your demeanor that you aren't intelligent enough to grasp science and logic at any rate". I hate to say it but you are the one that is not able to grasp logic here, not me. Logic dictates that any man walking around saying he is the messiah today would be hospitalized or medicated and in therapy. So, because a man did that along time ago he MUST be the real thing? Makes no sense......logically. Then you asked me "What say you?" So, here goes. Jesus, lets see.......schizophrenia, megalomania, messiah complex happens alot with bipolar people, just off the top of my head.. There are more, should I go on? I actually like feel sorry for Jesus, he was apparently a nice guy but he needed help. And instead of helping him people fed into his illness and then he was killed because of it. It's tragic really.
edit on 16-9-2012 by billy197300
edit on 16-9-2012 by billy197300 because: add
extra DIV



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 06:01 PM
link   
Someone once asked me what’s the difference between a Bible Prophet or Christian fundamentalist and a paranoid schizophrenic? Well, one hears voices in their head, has a heightened moral code, is judgmental yet can be very deceptive and manipulative, has delusions of being on a mission from God, sees things that no one else present sees, hears things that one else hears, sees lights in his head, is the center of the universe and has special knowledge that must be kept secret until the right time an then can only be understood as explained by the one. The other, of course, is a paranoid schizophrenic.



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 06:26 PM
link   
I have a seperate belief in religion as a spiritualist.

I take the foundation of Catholicism, (Trinity)
Studied the dead sea scrolls enough to know that Christianity is missing something.
Learn from the Essense
and go to church when i feel like it (if i do)

People just need to let things go, honestly instead of just fighting it.


Let us find some commonality


People denouncing religion claiming to be enlighten , Shameful
edit on 16-9-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-9-2012 by Jordan River because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 09:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by billy197300
 





You can't argue logic with religious nutters Wind, your wasting your time.


HAHA! How true! But, it's posts like yours and Jiggerj's that I "live to post" for! Sanity among the insane, a breath of fresh air!

Long live common sense!



The same could be said about anti-christian "nutters". No matter how many times something is explained to them, they always pick the same old arguments to ridicule the faith of other people because it confronts their own pride or disagrees with their own ideas of how things should work. Thread after thread after thread. You'd think you guys would get tired of it after awhile.

I don't agree with muslim extremists but you don't see me bashing islam every chance I can get. I don't agree with buddhist extremists (yes, they exist. Who'd have thought?) Yet I don't feel the need to author thread after thread about why buddhists are all idiots and believe in fairy tales.


edit on 16-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 10:07 PM
link   
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Nah. You have the same M.O. for every thread. The same "hit and run" insults that never address the topic at hand. That's why these questions keep getting brought up, again and again, there aren't being sufficiently addressed.

If we want to keep up and stay on topic, sometimes we have to reiterate things that we have said in other threads of similar topics. Surely, you don't think that a person who feels motivated to follow and contribute in certain forums should just shut up because "it's been said before?"

There are plenty of Christian posters that are able and willing to intelligently discuss these issues. Even though we seldom agree eye to eye, we have learned to respect each other differences, and can find common philosophies. It doesn't always have to be a brick walled, troll fest.



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 10:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Nah. You have the same M.O. for every thread. The same "hit and run" insults that never address the topic at hand. That's why these questions keep getting brought up, again and again, there aren't being sufficiently addressed.

If we want to keep up and stay on topic, sometimes we have to reiterate things that we have said in other threads of similar topics. Surely, you don't think that a person who feels motivated to follow and contribute in certain forums should just shut up because "it's been said before?"

There are plenty of Christian posters that are able and willing to intelligently discuss these issues. Even though we seldom agree eye to eye, we have learned to respect each other differences, and can find common philosophies. It doesn't always have to be a brick walled, troll fest.


-I haven't insulted anyone in the thread. Sorry if you feel insulted, but that's your choice. I do not "hit and run" and my posts in threads like these prove it. I stay in the discussion.

-I never said you should just "shut up". Perhaps there is a more productive way to engage people about what you are trying to communicate? Are you genuinely asking questions and wanting to learn a different perspective, or are you present in threads like this simply to bash a religion? Your posts indicate the latter, as no matter how many times people have attempted to answer your questions, you always discard what they have to say anyways. I've watched these exchanges many times. I don't mean to point the finger at you directly, but many of the questions you've asked in this very thread (as if to indicate they invalidate the christian religion somehow), have already been addressed to you specifically in other threads.

-I agree that we should be able to discuss the issue with civility. Would you agree that the OP has not made an attempt to do this?



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:42 PM
link   
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 





I don't mean to point the finger at you directly, but many of the questions you've asked in this very thread (as if to indicate they invalidate the christian religion somehow), have already been addressed to you specifically in other threads.


No, they haven't. My questions in this thread are unique to the people I'm addressing, and unique to this thread. Although, I may have brought up the extremely immoral factors of believing that the God of the Old Testament is worthy of worship before, I've never seen a satisfactory justification for all the blood shed, violence and lack of respect for other people.

When these difficult questions come up, many of you call foul play, and either change the subject, attack the posters or both. Because this mindset, that the Old Testament Israelites had about the treatment and respect for people of other cultures, and even their own sons and daughters, is indefensible. I completely reject the notion that the Old Testament character is who the Bible claims he is, or that "GOD" has any of the qualities of such an intrusive and blood thirsty deity.

At best, this God is a justification for their thinking, or at worst, he's an evil super deity/alien. Either way, God save us from the God of the Old Testament!



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by r2d246
 



7) If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)


Clearly this isn't true. Even Mother Teresa's prayers went unanswered.



I don't think that's true. My prayers have always been answers. And the things I've asked for I've received. You're assuming with that in terms of you and in terms of others such as Teresa. How do you know it won't work? But the requirment is that "my words remain in you". That means you've become a Christian. Are saved and are walking in good terms with God. If you do that then you can ask away. I honestly don't see why not. Like I'm serious, the prayers I've asked for I've gotten. It's so weird, but that sort of confirms it to me. I haven't seen that verse in a while.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:21 AM
link   

At best, this God is a justification for their thinking, or at worst, he's an evil super deity/alien. Either way, God save us from the God of the Old Testament!


And thus you prove my point. You aren't interested in anyone else's responses. You aren't interested in hearing why it may be relevant or why it may have been necessary. You aren't interested in examining cultural implications or anything else. You're only interested in your own pride which states "This is a blood thirsty God I refuse to support" based off of the Pentateuch alone.

So why then, do you insist on the same questions, when the answers given aren't good enough for you?

You aren't interested in purposeful dialog. You aren't even interested in coming to a new or even slightly different understanding. You are only interested in railing against what you think is a very evil influence (and I do not fault you for that much, as it has been used for evil, by MEN).



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:04 AM
link   
reply to post by r2d246
 


It is true that, indeed, Mother Teresa's prayers went unanswered. She wrote letters to the Pope and memiors expressing her prayers and her exasperation of lack of cooperation, funding and issues of hunger, disease and war. She was one of those people who prayed for others.

She expressed her concern that if her prayers were left unanswered that perhaps, maybe not even God exists. That's where her life long ministry left her!


Where is my faith?" she wrote. "Even deep down… there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God — please forgive me."

Eight years later, she was still looking to reclaim her lost faith.

"Such deep longing for God… Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal," she said.

As her fame increased, her faith refused to return. Her smile, she said, was a mask.

"What do I labor for?" she asked in one letter. "If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true."
Where is my faith?" she wrote. "Even deep down… there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God — please forgive me."



Why didn't Jesus answer Mother Teresa's prayers?


edit on 17-9-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:44 AM
link   
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


"The Pentateuch" is the basis of Jewish Law, the same law that Jesus said "Till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one word shall be changed." This is the Law that Christianity is built on.

The Premise that God, the force of creation and cognition, gave commandments to one group of people to violently murder another people, seize their property, livestock, and woman to be ravaged as spoils of war, is the basis of Jewish faith. Thus, is also the foundation of Christianity.

It is this same premise, still enforced today, that gives Israel justification against the Palestinians, gave the RR Catholics justification to brutalize indigenous people, Protestants to burn witches, and today's radical Muslims to call for death to America.

It boggles the mind and assaults the spirit to think, in this day and age, that these barbaric beliefs of doing God's will through murder and violence, still holds such strength and are being continually demonstrated in global politics and in how we relate to foreign cultures.

It's time to renounce this image of God for what it is, a justification by men for the thoughts and deeds of men by their made up God. It's time to declare that our God does not represent the values of murder and violence against humanity. Anything is else is stubborn, bigoted, insanity, at it's worse.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:52 AM
link   
reply to post by windword
 


No, Jesus said not one part of the law would be destroyed until it was fulfilled, and that He came to fulfill it.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:05 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Hi. I am glad to see you're still alive.

Do you like my new picture I made for people who tries to destroy religion for no reason?






I'm thinking on using it now for the OP's thread. Well, I can't blame him for being curious, see, so I think I'll pass.
edit on 17-9-2012 by swan001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:38 AM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


It is my belief that the God of Jesus, and the supposed God who order rampid genocide are 2 different entities.

I believe that the original Torah had been perverted to add these justifications, and Jesus said as much when he discouraged the stoning of the adulterous woman. He again challenged the law when the Pharisees criticized him and his apostles for not washing their hands, and he answered them with a question. Why aren't you stoning rebellious teenagers, as the law requires?


2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.


To me, it is obvious that Jesus didn't approve of these laws, from the get go. He may have fulfilled the law in his death, but he didn't live by it in his life. Therefore, I don't believe that his (Father) God commanded them in the first place.

Thus, the image of a murderous God is not the image of the "One True God" Jesus taught us about. Sadly, in history, Christians have been confused, and have misunderstood just who the Father God of Jesus really is. Historically, they have been guilty of justifying human shortcomings through the erroneous act of doing God's will through force and violence.




edit on 17-9-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)


Edit to add:

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


More proof, in my opinion, that the commandments of murder are not God's commandments but the commandments of men.
edit on 17-9-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:27 PM
link   
reply to post by windword
 


What genocide? I hope you're not talking about the flood and the eradication of Rephaim and Nephilim tribes, they were not humans, but demigod offspring of fallen angels who attempted to corrupt the gene pool of the coming Messiah. And the Matt. 15:9 comment has nothing to do with the Torah, but echoes His seething condemnation of Mark 7 where the Jewish religious authorities had elevated the Talmud teachings to the level of the Torah.


edit on 17-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:50 PM
link   
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.



Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


As a result, we have this:


2 kings 15:16 Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.


What about the 10 Commandments? What happens if one breaks them? Death!

Murder toPeople Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Your Father
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Your Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Adultery, Punishable by Death
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Fornication, Punishable by Death
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Nonbelievers, Punishable by Death
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Murder of False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 01:24 PM
link   
reply to post by windword
 


True, many sins did result in death, that's a great deterrent to crime. Do you know what one thing archaeologists have never discovered when excavating sites in Israel??

A: A jail.

Crime was virtually non-existent. And you provided verses telling the nation of Israel what to do with Rephaim and Nephillim tribes in their lands as well as with people who were worshipping demons.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 01:28 PM
link   
Point to add, Christ quoted from Deuteronomy more than any other book.




top topics



 
6
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join