Does EVIL really exist and if it does did GOD create it?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Here is the thread I was talking about.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm not a follower of anyone and have much love for Jesus, always have.

I want you to know that I'm seeking and I've found.

There are too many questions still to answer and I plan on answering them someway, somehow.

Look at things from a non-dualistic perspective and you will see that they are simply aspects of the same thing. All things are. It's only where you stand on something that shows whatever facet to you.

Look deeper and see this and you will understand the true nature of things. Dualistic thinking is passé. Open your mind to greater things. It's time for us to move on from old modes of thinking. We've been stuck for too long.

reply to post by MamaJ


I would read these men's statements before you decide to join Masonry:

Link.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I would read these men's statements before you decide to join Masonry:

Link.

Join Masonry?? Lol

When did I ever say I was joining masonry? Never!

I said I was waiting on a call so I could ask them questions. I want to ask them questions about their lodge and the satanic rumors all over the Internet.

None of the Shriners or masons I've ever known act as if they worship any one other than goodness and always willing to help people.

The link you gave really makes me wonder now as Jesus and Hermes/ Thoth are the same.

Hahahaha...... The plot thickens!

The Freemason just emailed he was about to call. I hope to get answers... I really do!!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You are a silly person. You are so desperate to remove all of these "Satanic" traits from the heart of man that you refuse to consider anything other than what has been beaten into your head from a young age.

Continue your ignorance. It is your choice to be blind in these matters. I must say, I find it hilarious that you will take Freemasonry in a heavily biased and highly interpretive light to be true, but when I point out that same quality in your faith, you shrug it off as, "You don't understand unless you have faith."

Bottom line: double standards.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


If you want to continue dialog with me you need to refrain from the insults and ad hom statements.

reply to post by MamaJ

Why don't you include yourself with them as well? We are all the same on the inside, we are all one. Don't raise Jesus or Hermes or whoever else up on a pedestal because they were no better than you or I are now.

Sure, you can look to them for guidance but don't ever look "up" to them, look to them at eye level. We are all the "I am", just different aspects of it.

Originally posted by Observationalist

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ

 

But what is the definition of 'evil'? My definition is: anything that takes away, or serves the self at the expense of others.

But what is there that takes without giving? If you look at it right, there's nothing that takes without giving. Even a murderer gives the survivors a whole new perspective, one that says, "Hey, you're still alive. You've been given a second chance. What will you do with it?" They were given that.

Even a forest fire leaves ash to nourish the next generation of plants. Even an atomic bomb gives us a lesson (brutal though it may be) in matters of what's best left alone.

In my opinion, there is nothing truly 'evil'. There is only a perspective of "that's negative" and "that's positive". Because there are very, very few things that take without giving. I can't think of any right now, but that's not to say there aren't any.

Help me understand,
So the dad who decides to molest her daughter, is not commiting an act of evil but is infact providing her daughter with a perspective that will help her grow into a better person. At least it was her dad and not some stranger that might kill her.

Is this the logic your looking for to dismiss evil.

edit on 17-9-2012 by Observationalist because: Spelling

AI, did you miss this post.

reply to post by Observationalist


In that example, you believe there was no positive that could be taken from the situation. Well, think about it: in that girl's future, she will be twice as likely to take a good hard look at whatever man tempts her to engage in a relationship. That sort of caution is very helpful in this world, and so she will not grow up to become like all the other dumb girls who think that being pregnant is "cool" or "awesome".

In short, she has gained a certain maturity from that harsh awakening. It's not the method any of us would have chosen, but it's there now, and she will benefit from it. Your own emotional stance keeps you from realizing that. And that's what 'good' and 'evil' really is all about, isn't it? A value attached to a concept based on how we feel about it, or the angle we are approaching it from.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by MamaJ

Why don't you include yourself with them as well? We are all the same on the inside, we are all one. Don't raise Jesus or Hermes or whoever else up on a pedestal because they were no better than you or I are now.

Sure, you can look to them for guidance but don't ever look "up" to them, look to them at eye level. We are all the "I am", just different aspects of it.

edit on 17-9-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I don't look at them as above me.

I see them as a brother!!

I was talking to a Christian prior.... Asking him questions.

Originally posted by MamaJ
The sons and daughters of God failed in thought before there was ever even a foundation laid in/ on the Earth.

Abuse of power continues to happen today, we see this.

Power plus humility without the desires of self is what we are in my opinion supposed to be overcoming in the flesh.

This can be called many things but I like to call it at one ment or atonement.

Christhood is our goal.

He achieved this as well as others however his story throughout the ages of time has been documented under names other than Jesus.

A poster above read Job. Read Job again, only this time consider Jesus wrote Job. When you do this the story of Job begins to have new meaning.

When reading about Moses and Joshua, same thing, imagine Jesus as the entity Joshua. In my view Joshua mentored Moses, not the other way around. I believe Joshua was psychic.

Enoch, same thing. Read Enoch and imagine its Jesus.

Go back even further and study up on the Hermetic Philosophy. Anything you can find regarding Hermes/ Thoth (wisdom and thought) and you will again see Jesus words and wisdom appear.

Let the seeker also seek out Melchezedek and allow himself to see Jesus.

Before Adam/ mankind/ Jesus there was Amilius. The seeker who seeks will find Amilius was Jesus without form.

I would also like to add some other thoughts.

God to me is....

In his true " nature" the power of thought.

He is without form of which all things are the form.

He is without dimensions and proportions but contains all dimensions and proportions within his own nature.

He is the projection and manifestation of the eternal thinker.

We are one who make up the all.

edit on 15-9-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

Very interesting that you should metion hermetic philosphy. Shortly before beginning this thread I ran across the Kybalion and am also in the process of reading it.

Also while discussing some aspects of this discussion and Job my wife and I were discussing Genesis and the nature of God. The basis of all the universe we decided is energy. Every atom, every part of an atom can be reduced to energy. Energy is neither created or destroyed. So what exactly is god? He existed before. Is he energy? This is still a theory on my part buy my mind is leaning in the direction that god is more than energy. Knowledge is more than energy. Knowledge seems to exist outside of energy. Kowledge also is never created or destroyed. Knowledge can be lost but it is still there waiting to be found. God is the ultimate knowledge. the light we all seek is not the light that is created by energy. It is a metaphorical light. That light is knowledge. Then I read this and well I think I have much much more knolwedge to obtain.

I read some of your other threads after this and the things you said about christ and about Job. To me it seems like at first mankind attempted to become like god. This obviously we were not able to do. When man tries to become like god it ends up leading down the wrong path. So god gave us Jesus. Not to worship but as something to strive towards. We cannot become like god but we can become like Jesus. It is not about gaining power. When knowledge is used to gain power it leads to bad things. When knowledge is used to gain nothing but more knowledge and the ability to share that knowledge then it leads to good things.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Observationalist

 

In that example, you believe there was no positive that could be taken from the situation. Well, think about it: in that girl's future, she will be twice as likely to take a good hard look at whatever man tempts her to engage in a relationship. That sort of caution is very helpful in this world, and so she will not grow up to become like all the other dumb girls who think that being pregnant is "cool" or "awesome".

In short, she has gained a certain maturity from that harsh awakening. It's not the method any of us would have chosen, but it's there now, and she will benefit from it. Your own emotional stance keeps you from realizing that. And that's what 'good' and 'evil' really is all about, isn't it? A value attached to a concept based on how we feel about it, or the angle we are approaching it from.

edit on 17-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Interesting perspective,
Im all for finding the positive in the situation, but you assume much in the individual's ability to cope. Its easy for you or me to say get over it look at what you got and move on, and not have to deal with the lingering effects of evil.

Do you think there are levels of evil? Like lieing is small but murder is big.

reply to post by Observationalist


I think the level is determined by how far out of your way you went to make that negative effect happen, and how much positive is garnered afterward. It's called the "karmic cycle".

Originally posted by Observationalist

Originally posted by Observationalist

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ

 

But what is the definition of 'evil'? My definition is: anything that takes away, or serves the self at the expense of others.

But what is there that takes without giving? If you look at it right, there's nothing that takes without giving. Even a murderer gives the survivors a whole new perspective, one that says, "Hey, you're still alive. You've been given a second chance. What will you do with it?" They were given that.

Even a forest fire leaves ash to nourish the next generation of plants. Even an atomic bomb gives us a lesson (brutal though it may be) in matters of what's best left alone.

In my opinion, there is nothing truly 'evil'. There is only a perspective of "that's negative" and "that's positive". Because there are very, very few things that take without giving. I can't think of any right now, but that's not to say there aren't any.

Help me understand,
So the dad who decides to molest her daughter, is not commiting an act of evil but is infact providing her daughter with a perspective that will help her grow into a better person. At least it was her dad and not some stranger that might kill her.

Is this the logic your looking for to dismiss evil.

edit on 17-9-2012 by Observationalist because: Spelling

AI, did you miss this post.

The act in itself may be considered evil by some. But actions are not evil. Inanimate things are not evil. You say the dad is evil because of what he did. I am not going to justify it but the real question is why he did it. Was he himself molested and/or abused? Did that lead to drug and alcohol abuse? Did he suffer other mental problems? Typically people don't just become molesters and/or abusers and/or murderers overnight (I am sure there are a few exceptions) but what drove him to do such a thing? Is he evil becuase he was unable to understand right from wrong? If you believe in mentall illness and that the dad suffers the same then by definition I do not believe that is evil.

This is something to ponder.

reply to post by crazyguy2012


Why is why I say that 'evil' and 'good' are personal stances on a broad subject. It's not a description of that object or event, it's a description of how we feel about it. So when we say, "That's evil" or "That's good", we're talking about how that idea is reflected in our hearts. It's more a description of us than of the idea, in a sense...in that you learn more about the person doing the labeling than you learn about the actual situation.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Observationalist

 

I think the level is determined by how far out of your way you went to make that negative effect happen, and how much positive is garnered afterward. It's called the "karmic cycle".

edit on 17-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Thanks,
I get it, kind of like when a murderer is punished more severely if there are mitigating circumstances. Would you say that these circumstances are more objective, while the the positive after effects are subjective, since no one can look into the future.

Last question.
Do you think that people are instinctively good or evil?

Originally posted by crazyguy2012

Originally posted by Observationalist

Originally posted by Observationalist

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ

 

But what is the definition of 'evil'? My definition is: anything that takes away, or serves the self at the expense of others.

But what is there that takes without giving? If you look at it right, there's nothing that takes without giving. Even a murderer gives the survivors a whole new perspective, one that says, "Hey, you're still alive. You've been given a second chance. What will you do with it?" They were given that.

Even a forest fire leaves ash to nourish the next generation of plants. Even an atomic bomb gives us a lesson (brutal though it may be) in matters of what's best left alone.

In my opinion, there is nothing truly 'evil'. There is only a perspective of "that's negative" and "that's positive". Because there are very, very few things that take without giving. I can't think of any right now, but that's not to say there aren't any.

Help me understand,
So the dad who decides to molest her daughter, is not commiting an act of evil but is infact providing her daughter with a perspective that will help her grow into a better person. At least it was her dad and not some stranger that might kill her.

Is this the logic your looking for to dismiss evil.

edit on 17-9-2012 by Observationalist because: Spelling

AI, did you miss this post.

The act in itself may be considered evil by some. But actions are not evil. Inanimate things are not evil. You say the dad is evil because of what he did. I am not going to justify it but the real question is why he did it. Was he himself molested and/or abused? Did that lead to drug and alcohol abuse? Did he suffer other mental problems? Typically people don't just become molesters and/or abusers and/or murderers overnight (I am sure there are a few exceptions) but what drove him to do such a thing? Is he evil becuase he was unable to understand right from wrong? If you believe in mentall illness and that the dad suffers the same then by definition I do not believe that is evil.

This is something to ponder.

I think that we do need to be careful before judging a mans motivations without considering all the facts, but I also think that someone's troubled past doesn't automatically disqualifies him or her from having self control.

If he was mentally ill then where did the idea that touching someone In that way was appropriate? Lets say it purely stemmed from his natural sexual desire. A mentally challenged person may get away with not having self control, he could claim ignorance. A grown man who can think for himself has a different responsibility, regardless of his past.

Thanks for your thoughts.

in that you learn more about the person doing the labeling than you learn about the actual situation.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Great insight,
Our reactions to acts of evil or good is a great indicator of where one stands morally. Emotions while subjective often reflect ones instinct to distance themselves form a corupt idea, or associate themselves with the positive idea.

One could say to themselves, glad I'm not like him, or say at least I have never done that, in an effort to make them fell better about themselves. It's easy to jump to the other side and point fingers. I would put myself in that catagory.

The harder response to evil would be to sympathize with the purpatrator, can we see him as someone needing help, can we see beyond the act and believe that the animal that did this evil act is infact a human in need of help.

My last thought on all this is motivation.
No one, even in a court of law can determine someone's true motivation, the deliverer of the act of good or evil is the only one that knows where his heart is in the matter. He or she can withhold Information or add information to change peoples perceptions. A judge cannot look into the heart or the soul of a man and determine his guilt or innocence.

My original analogy was ment to draw out information not make a statement. While I have a formal opinion about all this, I'm more interested in yours. I appreciate your insight, you have a perspective on life that I have not been exposed to, just trying to get understanding. Thanks for your replys.