Does EVIL really exist and if it does did GOD create it? , page 3

Pages: << 1 2 3 4 5 6 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 08:10 AM by HamrHeed

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Everyone is messing it up. "Lucifer" appears one time, it's a terrible Latin rendering of the Hebrew "Heylel ben Sachar" from Isaiah 14:12. Heylel ben Sachar doesn't mean "bringer of light", it means "crescent moon and star". In Arabic "hilel" is also "crescent moon", both Arabic and Hebrew are Semitic languages. Where Jerome messed up is the moon BEARS the light, or reflects the light of the sun. The moon has no capacity to produce it's own light.

Morning Star is a title Christ reserves for Himself in Revelation. Satan's name never was "Lucifer" before he fell, it was "Heylel".

So this is where the term "moon god" comes from?

There is nothing new under the Sun.. In Isaiah 14:12 God is condemning "Heylel ben Sachar", not the Latin "Lucifer". Isaiah was written in Hebrew, not Latin. Jerome translated the Vulgate from the LXX, not the Hebrew.

"Crescent moon and star".

So these "pagan" associations and celebrations were the root or the subject of the new living word?
Do you believe we will have another sun?

edit: Sorry I am not trying to piss you off with my responses. I find your responses to be very interesting and sometimes cryptic

edit on 15-9-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 08:20 AM by MamaJ

The sons and daughters of God failed in thought before there was ever even a foundation laid in/ on the Earth.

Abuse of power continues to happen today, we see this.

Power plus humility without the desires of self is what we are in my opinion supposed to be overcoming in the flesh.

This can be called many things but I like to call it at one ment or atonement.

Christhood is our goal.

He achieved this as well as others however his story throughout the ages of time has been documented under names other than Jesus.

A poster above read Job. Read Job again, only this time consider Jesus wrote Job. When you do this the story of Job begins to have new meaning.

When reading about Moses and Joshua, same thing, imagine Jesus as the entity Joshua. In my view Joshua mentored Moses, not the other way around. I believe Joshua was psychic.

Enoch, same thing. Read Enoch and imagine its Jesus.

Go back even further and study up on the Hermetic Philosophy. Anything you can find regarding Hermes/ Thoth (wisdom and thought) and you will again see Jesus words and wisdom appear.

Let the seeker also seek out Melchezedek and allow himself to see Jesus.

Before Adam/ mankind/ Jesus there was Amilius. The seeker who seeks will find Amilius was Jesus without form.

I would also like to add some other thoughts.

God to me is....

In his true " nature" the power of thought.

He is without form of which all things are the form.

He is without dimensions and proportions but contains all dimensions and proportions within his own nature.

He is the projection and manifestation of the eternal thinker.

We are one who make up the all.

edit on 15-9-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 08:28 AM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by HamrHeed

You're not pissing me off, the text in Isaiah 14:12 is attacking the spirit force behind a man, the angel empowering a man. It's a prophecy about the end times, a man will be represented by a crescent moon and a star. Satan, the accuser, will be possessing this man. Can you think of anything today that identifies itself with a crescent moon and star? Check out what the modern names are of the nations in the Psalm 83 prophecies.

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 08:47 AM by HamrHeed

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by HamrHeed

You're not pissing me off, the text in Isaiah 14:12 is attacking the spirit force behind a man, the angel empowering a man. It's a prophecy about the end times, a man will be represented by a crescent moon and a star. Satan, the accuser, will be possessing this man. Can you think of anything today that identifies itself with a crescent moon and star? Check out what the modern names are of the nations in the Psalm 83 prophecies.

I haven't heard that direct reference ever before except when referring to muslims as moon god followers.
The adversary is a huge topic in itself.
Saturn- the one with the steady halo- get close and pulled into the earth (ground) and destroyed
Venus- orbit takes the path of the inverted pentagram (desire)
Sun- warmth, the son
etc

ps: i will look into those refs you left. thanks man

edit on 15-9-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 10:24 AM by lonewolf19792000

reply to post by crazyguy2012

God didn't create evil. Evil is the disobedience of God's laws, a.k.a. sin. He knew of it and it's what disobedience leads to. Nakedness is a sign of unrighteousness, Adama was made unrighteous, where Satan came into play is he made Adam aware of it a.k.a. the "tree of knowledge" which he knew would lead to Man's death. Yahweh (IEUE) Elohim did not create evil, creatures that disobey him create evil. God wasn't making mortals he was making other gods, his children (sons of God). Adam had dominion over the creation of earth and everything and God appointed the angels to worship him which is what caused the angelic rebellion. Heylel (Satan) thought a little more of himself than he should have and this is written of in Isaiah 14. Rather than leave Adam whom Yah loved so much in a fallen state for eternity, he cast him and his wife out of Eden so they couldn't eat from the tree of life (bread of life) and appointed mankind to die physically while he enacted a plan to redeem what he had created. The trade would be his own blood shed as the man Jesus whom he would come as later in order to cover all those who would believe in him. Adam incurred a blood debt when he disobeyed God, a debt he couldn't pay. After Adam's fall the dominion of earth fell into Heylel's hands, but his power was shattered by Jesus (Yahweh/Yeshua) when he took the keys of death and hell from Heylel, who at that time was able to determine who lived and who died of those who did not belong to Yahweh.

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 10:31 AM by jhill76

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

God didn't create evil.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

He uses good and evil all for a purpose. You may say context, yes of course. His definition of evil and mans, differ greatly.

edit on 15-9-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 10:35 AM by HamrHeed

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

God didn't create evil.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Sorry to butt in but we were given free will, unfortunately, as it seems we're on the path of destruction at this point.
We all have the choice to love, but we don't at all the crucial junctions of our spiritual evolution.
Carry on-

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 10:44 AM by MamaJ

reply to post by HamrHeed

I want to add to this..... My thoughts on the matter....

The eternal thinker, God, is the creating power by " will" of his attributes.

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 01:09 PM by stirling

Accoeding to the bible yes God created evil....he confesses that.....

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 01:12 PM by HamrHeed

Originally posted by stirling
Accoeding to the bible yes God created evil....he confesses that.....

Father is beyond writing books.. He inspires them as he inspires life in general.
The original teacher,politician,poet,judge, artist --) infinity

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 01:29 PM by xxshadowfaxx

Evil is simply a creation of the ego. Tell me.... Do animals know evil? Or do they know nature? Evil only exists because we allow our thoughts to control us. All sin, all evil, does not exist beyond humans. Beneath our thoughts is a state of love. Oneness. No duality. Evil does not exist, it is an illusion we created. God is within us, so whatever it is that we create, is created by God. We have the ability to create anything we want in this world. We create much evil. We believe we are given free will.... We give ourselves free will. There is no man in the sky judging everything that we do. There is no heaven or hell. There is no one right way to live. Everything we see around us, whether its a table, computer, tree, grass...... you...... it's all vibrations of consciousness. We have the ability to raise or lower our vibrations. We have the ability to live in the past, present and future. And we do. Most of us are consumed by the past, and obsessed with the future, few of us can live in the present moment. But that is where bliss begins. living true to yourself, in the moment, following your intuition, and being yourself. We need to stop believing in a god, and realize that you are a part of god. You are divine. We all come from the same consciousness. Therefore we are all one. It doesn't matter if you are a serial killer, or a doctor. Underneath it all is a state of love. When we die, we experience this love, and it is divine, and beautiful, we leave our bodies and become immersed in it. Until we once again create life, into a new body, your small speck of consciousness finds a seat in the pineal gland of a living thing. A fresh start. To experience the wonders of life, to help fulfill a universal purpose that is all but unknown to us. The universe has many mysteries, but its time we put the notion that we are seperate from it, and allow our intuition, not scripture, to guide us into a better life. Help people, love everyone, and create a better world. You have that power. We all do.

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 01:31 PM by toocoolnc

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by toocoolnc

Don't you mean Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma"?

Haha yes you are correct, sorry!.. I have no idea why I was thinking of alister crowley..

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 02:12 PM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by crazyguy2012

Evil and good only exist in the sense that time exists. We invented all three concepts as a means of measuring how we look at something. If someone says, "That's evil," or "That's good," we know that they have a positive or negative stance on it in totality. However, you ask someone else about the same thing and they'll give you a completely different answer. For instance: abortion, the death penalty, taxes, welfare, or even something as simple as disciplining your child.

This alone tells us that 'good' and 'evil' are not absolute concepts. They have gray areas depending on where you're from and how you were raised, all that background stuff. So if the specifics depend on the specific person, doesn't that mean the definition does as well After all, the definition defines the specifics, therefore, if the person defines the specifics, that means the definition is specific to them as well. Which means the definition isn't so much a definition, as a value. We attach the phrases 'good' and 'evil' as VALUES, or how we feel about an object, idea, or event.

This means we invented good and evil as a means of expressing our strongest, most absolute emotions towards a certain subject. Lately, however, I have personally found that along with the rest of language, we're using these terms far too loosely...because accuracy has become so lax, so has our definitions and understandings of ideas. As such, 'good' and 'evil' have become blurred...but my view, as I have just explained, seems to cover it pretty well.

Believe what you want, but you asked, and I answered. And did "God" invent it? Well, to invent something, you have to be able to consider the idea, or else it has no meaning. So that would completely rewrite "God" as we know him. The answer to that half of your question must be put on hold as I, in return, ask you this: are you willing to actually CONSIDER the answer, despite how unpleasant it may be? It's not simple, but I can explain my understanding of it, such as it is.

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 02:13 PM by Seede

Text -- God didn't create evil.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

lonewolf

The KJV bible says -- Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things. The Catholic bible does not use the words create evil but I understand the meaning as the same as the KJV.

You have an interesting viewpoint but have never heard it expressed the way you express it. You say that God was not making mortals when He made Adam but was trying to make gods? In other words God screwed up? Is that what you are saying? According to your understanding He must have screwed up because there are no gods here that I know of.

You look at this in a different way than I do. You look at the tree of knowledge to do good and evil as being the tree of awareness but Adam and Eve were already aware that the tree was forbidden. They had the awareness to rationalize this command and they knew that they were doing something that God had told them not to do. What they did do is the very same as even angels do. They disobeyed God's command and they also were aware that the penalty was death of the body.

The entire premise of this (in my understanding) was that God knew, with His foreknowledge, that they would do this very thing. I do not believe that God was surprised in the least by their actions. I believe that God was not harsh in the death penalty but knew that men and angels would and did sin and that the tree of life was taken from them only to be given back to them after they graduate from this school.

This Lucifer or Satan or Devil etc. was cast down to this world as a tool in teaching this school. Out of all of the universe that God could have cast him into, He choose this world where Adam was created. This was not a coincidence by any means. It was planned for the entire salvation message.

So in that understanding I can understand what is meant when Isaiah says that God creates evil. It has to be that way because you cannot have any one thing on this earth without having an opposite. Evil is opposite of Good just as well as heat is opposite of cold. If you had no evil then you have no good and without that as a tool you do not have everlasting life compared to limited life. Man had to have a choice in order to have a truth. If it is not shown then it cannot be proven to be judged.

I could not find where this Heylel really makes that much difference in English. Lucifer is translated from Hebrew (Heylel) to Latin (Lucifer) by Jerome and yet neither name is recognized in the English from by the Jewish Publication Society. The word Lucifer does not exist in the JPS bible. So really that tells me that it must be the translation of Jerome only. The JPS bible translates this as "O day star, son of the morning"-- Really makes no difference to me because I know what is meant in either case.
Have a good day--

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 02:22 PM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by Seede

You look at this in a different way than I do.

Funny how that works, isn't it? As though it is deliberately vague...rather dangerous, to write something so unclear and expect thousands to follow its every word...

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 02:24 PM by raiders247

reply to post by crazyguy2012

Instead of deflecting blame onto imaginary figures I wish we as a species would start taking more responsibility for the "evil" we do.

God is a convenient excuse to 99% of you believers.

edit on 9/15/2012 by raiders247 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 02:28 PM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by raiders247

In my opinion, some say that we are responsible for evil, and that "God" will save us. Others say that "God" invented evil and we need to save ourselves.

I say that evil and good are simply perspectives, and that we need to focus less on labeling stuff and more on finding a way to take less and give more.

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 03:16 PM by sacgamer25

reply to post by crazyguy2012

MUMFORD & SONS - SIGN NO MORE LYRICS

Love it will not betray you, dismay or enslave you, It will set you free

Be more like the man you were made to be.There is a design,An alignment to cry,At my heart you see,The beauty of love as it was made to be

I love this CD. Maybe God gave us the choice because he is love. He made us to love but did not make us slaves to it. For the sinner is a slave to sin, but the one who chooses love can become a slave to love.

Be more like the man you were made to be, chose to be a slave to love, despite the fact that there is so little love left in man.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 15-9-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 03:23 PM by AfterInfinity

reply to post by sacgamer25

YouTube Link

Geologist Kurt Wise, who has a PhD in geology from Harvard, and said, "If all the evidence in the universe pointed towards an old earth, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a young earth Creationist, because that is what holy scripture teaches me."

The quoted section is in the last 30 seconds of the video. That should tell everyone everything they need to know.

reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 03:37 PM by sacgamer25

Double Post

edit on 15-9-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)