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Science and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis in Ufology

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posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by gguyx
 


You make a lot of good points in your post, gguyx. Thanks for the contribution. I'd like to second your recommendation of Firestorm. It's a collosally thorough account of James McDonald's involvement in the UFO controversy and an absolutely brilliant read.




posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


I didn't realise this article was over 20 years old when I read it, I saw the year 2007 at the beginning and assumed that was when it was published. This explains why I felt it was stale and uninteresting. Anyhow. The proponents of the ETH are putting the cart before the horse. There isn't even any conclusive proof for flying saucers, cigars etc and still some people want to try and explain their origin. I guess Swords is a believer first and scientist second, just like Hynek in his later years and McDonald.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by cripmeister
 


The paper definitely has to be put into context, particularly considering the progess that's been made regarding our knowledge of extrasolar planets. I do find it interesting, though, to see someone actually break down the various factors of the Drake equation based on our contemporary knowledge and beliefs about the universe.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


Thanks for the reply and the link, Karl. Swords has written a lot of good stuff on the topic, not the least of which is his new book. Almost finished with it, and I've picked up a number of potential thread topics that I plan to look into further.



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


Great post, we have to put our historian thinking caps on when approaching this area, there are no flaws in the reasoning of the report.

Surprisingly, there was a time in history that had two interesting aspects - metallic discs flying over world skies and people who told the truth. There is no such thing as truth in today's world, society loves to lie more than eating food on a hungry stomach based on a complete lack of love for each other. It will be very hard for those individuals watching youtube videos and reading posts named after youtube videos to believe that there was a time in history yielding only truthful people, and this time happened to be a time filled with discs flying through the air.

This is the reason why more of the scientific community were open to UFOs than in the present day. What really frustrated the scientists was the apparent reason for the objects - abductions. You cannot describe an abduction as a possibility of reality, they only have science fictional attributes. There are some scientists today with physical alien proof, but they aren't on Oprah because people think it is a youtube lie and will think it is a youtube lie, because we love lying to each other for a reason of hate, something I have nothing to do with.

edit on 16-9-2012 by greyer because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by taccj9903
Unfortunately, the UFO/Alien hypothesis is a big red flag to most scientist regardless of how they truly feel about the phenomena. Could this topic be a career killer in the scientific field? I believe so, otherwise why wouldn't we hear and see more discussions about this hypothesis especially at the university levels.


I think you may be correct. I had an opportunity to speak to Temple University (history) Professor David Jacobs for about twenty minutes one time at a MUFON event.



source

I asked Dr. Jacobs what his colleagues at Temple thought of his interest in UFOs. He indicated that they generally looked down upon it, and furthermore, that he felt his attention to the topic had cost him whatever opportunity he may have otherwise had to get a full professorship at the university. Of course, this was only his impression of the situation. Nonetheless, it was his impression. Take that for what it's worth.
edit on 16-9-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-9-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Orkojoker
 


I dismiss the alien front as part of an Illuminati plot to stay on top.
Well I'm sure thy include certain people to stay on top with them.
Its best to keep Illuminati secrets and tell them to friends and not
be too overcome by their disinformation effort.



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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If the youtuber sees and records these more than once in a short period of time, idk how could anyone be thinking they are anything other than CGI..



posted on Sep, 16 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker

Originally posted by taccj9903
Unfortunately, the UFO/Alien hypothesis is a big red flag to most scientist regardless of how they truly feel about the phenomena. Could this topic be a career killer in the scientific field? I believe so, otherwise why wouldn't we hear and see more discussions about this hypothesis especially at the university levels.


I think you may be correct. I had an opportunity to speak to Temple University (history) Professor David Jacobs for about twenty minutes one time at a MUFON event.



source

I asked Dr. Jacobs what his colleagues at Temple thought of his interest in UFOs. He indicated that they generally looked down upon it, and furthermore, that he felt his attention to the topic had cost him whatever opportunity he may have otherwise had to get a full professorship at the university. Of course, this was only his impression of the situation. Nonetheless, it was his impression. Take that for what it's worth.
edit on 16-9-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-9-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)
This is the guy who conducted alien abduction research by performing a hypnotic regression session on a young lady by text messaging her and also requested the unwashed panties of this same young lady be sent to him so he could test them for alien DNA.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
This is the guy who conducted alien abduction research by performing a hypnotic regression session on a young lady by text messaging her and also requested the unwashed panties of this same young lady be sent to him so he could test them for alien DNA.


Do you know that for a fact or are you just relying on the claims of someone who might simply be making up stories? I don't know either way, but I am extremely suspicious about everything claimed by "Emma Woods".



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by bluestreak53

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
This is the guy who conducted alien abduction research by performing a hypnotic regression session on a young lady by text messaging her and also requested the unwashed panties of this same young lady be sent to him so he could test them for alien DNA.


Do you know that for a fact or are you just relying on the claims of someone who might simply be making up stories? I don't know either way, but I am extremely suspicious about everything claimed by "Emma Woods".
There are recordings of the hypnosis sessions that were done over the phone. I don't think anyone denies this happened. I think that this is a good thread otherwise but that guy is just a low life.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
This is the guy who conducted alien abduction research by performing a hypnotic regression session on a young lady by text messaging her and also requested the unwashed panties of this same young lady be sent to him so he could test them for alien DNA.


Holy smokes, that's news to me. Where's this information coming from? I'm sure you can provide a source and link, right? I find it hard to believe that he would attempt hypnotic regression via text message, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, because I'm sure you wouldn't simply mosey onto this thread and start talking out of your anus. Let's see some reference(s) for these statements please.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

I think that this is a good thread otherwise but that guy is just a low life.


Low life no, victim of delusions yes. Jacobs fully believes his "abductees" stories about a human/alien breeding program.




posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by cripmeister

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

I think that this is a good thread otherwise but that guy is just a low life.


Low life no, victim of delusions yes. Jacobs fully believes his "abductees" stories about a human/alien breeding program.





Yeah, he talks about it in a fairly straightforward way as if it's actually happening. At the same time, he knows and acknowledges how crazy it sounds. I've not looked into the whole abduction thing much aside from Jacobs' first book on it, a couple of Budd Hopkins' books and John Mack's, and a two or three other random ones. Haven't really formed a solid opinion on it one way or the other.

I thought Jacobs seemed like a very nice guy. Quite funny and interesting to talk to. I would hope his research methods aren't as whacked out as people make them sound.
edit on 17-9-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker

I think you may be correct. I had an opportunity to speak to Temple University (history) Professor David Jacobs for about twenty minutes one time at a MUFON event.



source

I asked Dr. Jacobs what his colleagues at Temple thought of his interest in UFOs. He indicated that they generally looked down upon it, and furthermore, that he felt his attention to the topic had cost him whatever opportunity he may have otherwise had to get a full professorship at the university. Of course, this was only his impression of the situation. Nonetheless, it was his impression. Take that for what it's worth.
edit on 16-9-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-9-2012 by Orkojoker because: (no reason given)


Dr. David Jacobs believes: "...alien-human hybrids are engaged in a covert program of infiltration into human society with possibly the final goal of taking over Earth. He asserts that some of his research subjects are teaching these hybrids how to blend into human society so that they cannot be differentiated from humans, and that this is occurring worldwide"

Your "scientific approach" crosses into the tin-foil hat approach including abductees. Especially claims from this clown. He shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread if you're trying to show something scientific in the way of "Ufology".



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
This is the guy who conducted alien abduction research by performing a hypnotic regression session on a young lady by text messaging her and also requested the unwashed panties of this same young lady be sent to him so he could test them for alien DNA.


Holy smokes, that's news to me. Where's this information coming from? I'm sure you can provide a source and link, right? I find it hard to believe that he would attempt hypnotic regression via text message, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, because I'm sure you wouldn't simply mosey onto this thread and start talking out of your anus. Let's see some reference(s) for these statements please.


www.ufoalienabductee.com...


“(419) Dr. Jacobs told me while hypnotized that Elizabeth told a ‘hybrid’ about
email,” Emma states in the Complaint. She says that “(433) I thought that
Elizabeth’s account of her ‘experiences’ was genuine, (434) Dr. Jacobs
conducted hypnosis with Elizabeth on instant messenger, [and]
(435)
Elizabeth presented herself convincingly to me as an ‘abductee’.”



The following was included in Emma Woods’s Complaint. It includes a
transcription of her audio archive:
“(424) Dr. Jacobs told me while hypnotized to send my underpants to
someone else
“(424.1) While I was hypnotized during my twentieth hypnosis session, Dr.
Jacobs told me to send him my unwashed underpants to analyze for “hybrid”
sperm, as detailed in (423) above.
“(424.2) However, further on in the hypnosis session, Dr. Jacobs told me not
to send my underpants to him, but to send them to someone else instead.
He said that he would give me their address to send them to.
“(424.3) I was embarrassed about the prospect of sending my unwashed
underpants to someone whom I did not know. However, I agreed to do it. In
hindsight, I think that this was partly because I was hypnotized at the time.
“(424.4) Transcribed from point 04:25:40 in the hypnosis session:
Dr. Jacobs: In fact, I will send you an address to send - you - don't send it to
me.
Myself: Right.
Dr. Jacobs: I'll send you an address to send it to, in a few minutes.
Myself: Okay.
Dr. Jacobs: And, it will not be to me.
Myself: Right. Okay. Yeah.
Dr. Jacobs: So. It'll be to somebody else.
Myself: Right.
Dr. Jacobs: Is that okay?
Myself: Yeah.
Dr. Jacobs: Okay.
(424.5) After the hypnosis session, Dr. Jacobs sent me a mailing address to
send my underpants to, which he had told me was someone else's address,
as detailed further on in this submission. Subsequently, I did not send my
underpants to that address, as detailed further on in this submission.
(424.6) Much later, Dr. Jacobs told me that the address was, in fact, a “mail
drop” address that belonged to him. However, he said that he had wanted
me to believe that it was someone else’s address, ostensibly so that
“hybrids” would also believe that, as detailed further on in this submission.
(424.7) In my opinion, Dr. Jacobs’ conduct in this regard displayed a lack of
awareness of, or concern for, the negative effects of his deception on me as
his research subject, in view of the fact that it involved a personal matter of an
embarrassing nature, and he did it while I was hypnotized.”
Source
Section 424 of Emma Woods’s Complaint to the Division of Compliance
Oversight Office for Human Research Protections (OHRP), Part 4



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Ectoplasm8
Dr. David Jacobs believes: "...alien-human hybrids are engaged in a covert program of infiltration into human society with possibly the final goal of taking over Earth. He asserts that some of his research subjects are teaching these hybrids how to blend into human society so that they cannot be differentiated from humans, and that this is occurring worldwide"

Your "scientific approach" crosses into the tin-foil hat approach including abductees. Especially claims from this clown. He shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread if you're trying to show something scientific in the way of "Ufology".


I think that is an accurate assessment of the views of Jacobs towards "alien abductions". The usage of "hypnosis" in "alien abduction research" has been criticized from an ethical and scientific perspective. I have also met David Jacobs (one time) and he did seem like a "nice person", but if you look through his interviews, he does often come across as highly paranoid and overly confident that he is the only one to have a "correct" interpretation of "alien abductions".

I am skeptical about the value of hypnotic regressions in retrieving memories of 'alien abductions". A lot of comments that Jacobs makes set off alarm bells, since he acknowledges that alien abductions include "implanted and false memories" - but he seems to think he can (uniquely) discern what are real and what are fake memories.

I personally find that Budd Hopkins and John Mack seemed to have a more open minded approach to their studies of "alien abductions". My experience of people who claim to have "alien abduction experiences", is that there might be a wide variety of phenomena that is involved - in most cases possibly or probably not involving aliens in any way.

I have met a few people who have described possible "alien abductions" that I felt were compelling, but in all cases, we have mostly interesting stories and little if any concrete evidence of actual alien abductions.

This is an interesting set of interviews of people who were involved in studies of "alien abductions". Unfortunately, the interviews were recorded after John Mack died, so he is not included. But Jacobs, Hopkins and others provide their perspectives.




posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by ZetaRediculian
 


Egads. That's some twisted stuff right there. I wonder if it's true. I emailed Dr. Jacobs to ask him about this matter and got the following reply:


The Emma Woods affair has been the most difficult situation of my thirty year abduction research life. I have written a short piece on my website replying to her at www.ufoabduction.com. Please read that and if you have any more specific questions, for example, my alleged sexual perversion, please do not hesitate to ask.


His reply to the allegations contains some interesting information, including this:


After a year of limited success in convincing people to visit her new website on which she posts her diatribes against me, Alice escalated her campaign in October 2008 by writing a formal complaint to Temple University, my employer of 35 years. In her complaint she not only charged that I had threatened her family but that I had psychologically abused her as well. She included a large number of materials and a list of questions for the Temple investigators to ask me. Nearly all of the questions focused on whether I had mentioned her name at talks I had given, to friends of mine in private conversations, to acquaintances of mine, to colleagues of mine, to my literary agent, and so forth. She also wanted to know whether I had a manuscript or a book about her. Because the complaint was formally filed, Temple University was forced to investigate. I was called in and answered the questions. Temple found no improprieties and sent Alice a letter saying so. Her response was to conclude that Temple was engaged in a “cover up.”


source

Hard to know what to think, but I'm not sure I would crucify Jacobs just yet. Should probably look into it a little more before passing judgement. Always a good policy to examine both sides.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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I thought that in his later years...Hynek favored the interdimensional hypothesis for ET's, rather than the hypothesis --- that ET's {that visit our planet} --- travel in starships that are capable of superluminal {faster than light speeds}. In my opinion... Hynek threw out the baby with the bathwater --- that could setback the science of Ufology back 20 years--- as he, and Vallee, discounted the true technological aspect's of ET starships.
edit on 17-9-2012 by Erno86 because: spelling
edit on 17-9-2012 by Erno86 because: typo



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Orkojoker
Hard to know what to think, but I'm not sure I would crucify Jacobs just yet. Should probably look into it a little more before passing judgement. Always a good policy to examine both sides.


As you can see, this is old, old, old "news". From what I gather, Jacobs was never found to be "guilty" of anything, as far as I can tell.





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