reply to post by magickmaster
Besides the fact that I can't see how an ex-lawyer would be a trap for anybody, I wish you would address my points. I've made some in each post
and haven't gotten a response. Please try.
Can you beat the courts? , page 2
reply posted on 13-9-2012 @ 11:12 PM by magickmaster
reply to post by charles1952
You do not see the forest through the trees.
This process does not use standard court procedures. The party is moving the court, privately, as the Government in fact, not fiction. I have seen and been though, and witness to enough situations that convince me this process is extremely dangerous to the system, for people to fully comprehend and understand.
All victimless crimes are commercial crimes, and in fact, murder too, now, in this current form of government, is actually a commercial crime. There are no personal injuries or torts, it's all in commerce, and dealt with by the state and federal corporations.
The government failed to reconvene by Legislative assembly after the civil war, in 1868, it reconvened by Executive Order, and the organic government failed to come back into place. It was only a corporation from then on, and YOU, are operating under the assumption you have a constitutional government and courts.
You do not see the forest through the trees.
This process does not use standard court procedures. The party is moving the court, privately, as the Government in fact, not fiction. I have seen and been though, and witness to enough situations that convince me this process is extremely dangerous to the system, for people to fully comprehend and understand.
All victimless crimes are commercial crimes, and in fact, murder too, now, in this current form of government, is actually a commercial crime. There are no personal injuries or torts, it's all in commerce, and dealt with by the state and federal corporations.
The government failed to reconvene by Legislative assembly after the civil war, in 1868, it reconvened by Executive Order, and the organic government failed to come back into place. It was only a corporation from then on, and YOU, are operating under the assumption you have a constitutional government and courts.
reply posted on 13-9-2012 @ 11:22 PM by charles1952
reply to post by magickmaster
Does it really matter what I believe or the freemen believe? Don't we depend on what the courts believe? And they don't accept this stuff.
Pretend for a moment that you are, in truth, totally correct. You go to court, get convicted, jailed, and all your appeals fail. What have you gained? What's the upside to learning this stuff? It doesn't work.
Does it really matter what I believe or the freemen believe? Don't we depend on what the courts believe? And they don't accept this stuff.
Pretend for a moment that you are, in truth, totally correct. You go to court, get convicted, jailed, and all your appeals fail. What have you gained? What's the upside to learning this stuff? It doesn't work.
reply posted on 13-9-2012 @ 11:49 PM by charles1952
reply to post by magickmaster
You're name calling? That doesn't help a conversation proceed upon it's merry way. So, can you show me an example of it working?
Oh, and not understanding it? That's because from a legal point of view, it's incoherent, unsupported, and even if it could be translated into meaningful English, it would be irrelevant to persuading a court that they are wrong and you should walk free. Which was the claim made.
So, once again, please show us (I'm including those readers who may not be commenting), where it has worked.
You're name calling? That doesn't help a conversation proceed upon it's merry way. So, can you show me an example of it working?
Oh, and not understanding it? That's because from a legal point of view, it's incoherent, unsupported, and even if it could be translated into meaningful English, it would be irrelevant to persuading a court that they are wrong and you should walk free. Which was the claim made.
So, once again, please show us (I'm including those readers who may not be commenting), where it has worked.
reply posted on 13-9-2012 @ 11:53 PM by magickmaster
reply to post by charles1952
They are not decisions and are not published. You just do not get it, do you? It's PRIVATE. That's why you know nothing of it. But every judge you sat before, understands it. So, you are the one who is lacking learning skills here, not me lacking teaching skills. You fail at understanding anything outside your programmed "box".
You are just wasting space, here.
Can you PROVE that you are a human being? Can you PROVE you exist at all, and you are not a "bot"?
If you cannot PROVE it, why should I discuss it with you?
Prove it to yourself, why don't you? I do not have to prove anything to anyone. I have been there and done it.
Have you ever tried to UNtrain a dog? It's like untraining a lawyer. Same thing. Both are trained, and cannot be changed very easily.
I'm actually not trying to insult you, but you are not open minded to learn anything new, so I am not trying very hard to teach you anything. I'll be happy to answer questions from people who do not "know it all".
They are not decisions and are not published. You just do not get it, do you? It's PRIVATE. That's why you know nothing of it. But every judge you sat before, understands it. So, you are the one who is lacking learning skills here, not me lacking teaching skills. You fail at understanding anything outside your programmed "box".
You are just wasting space, here.
Can you PROVE that you are a human being? Can you PROVE you exist at all, and you are not a "bot"?
If you cannot PROVE it, why should I discuss it with you?
Prove it to yourself, why don't you? I do not have to prove anything to anyone. I have been there and done it.
edit on 13-9-2012 by
magickmaster because: (no reason given)
Have you ever tried to UNtrain a dog? It's like untraining a lawyer. Same thing. Both are trained, and cannot be changed very easily.
edit on
13-9-2012 by magickmaster because: (no reason given)
I'm actually not trying to insult you, but you are not open minded to learn anything new, so I am not trying very hard to teach you anything. I'll be happy to answer questions from people who do not "know it all".
edit on 14-9-2012 by magickmaster because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 12:24 AM by charles1952
reply to post by magickmaster
OK, before we get into the more serious matters.... I'm not asking for proof, I'm just asking for one example. If this "private" stuff is being done on a regular basis, link to some YouTube videos, or even blogs, where some guy says "I committed this crime, but I told the judge he didn't have any authority over me. He agreed, so I beat a felony charge."
Now, let's look at this "Private" business. Use, as an example, a federal tax evasion charge. Some how the tip comes in. They record the tip and open a file. Investigators are assigned who have to take detailed notes, collect a lot of evidence, possibly make an arrest, and prepare to testify. At the arrest, an officer is involved who takes notes, transfers the prisoner to custody. More notes and more people involved.
While this is going on, the US Attorney decides whether they want to prosecute, let's assume he does, because the freeman hasn't had a chance to talk with him. He then assigns an Assistant US Attorney to the case who opens up a file. They notify Washington, both Justice and IRS, that prosecution is proceeding.
How long do you want me to go on with this? The point is that dozens of people know about it, and are making files, entering statistics, filing motions with the court, setting hearing dates and tentative trial dates.
Now comes the day of the trial. You've seen it (kind of) on television, but there's more record keeping, more people involved. You've also seen on television what happens to the "non-freeman" defendant. He gets jailed and I go get some chips and a beer.
BUT what happens if it's a freeman. He goes into court, asks a few questions, the judge kicks everybody else out of the courtroom, including the Marshals, Looks at the freeman and says, "OK, you can go, I have no jurisdiction," and the freeman goes whistling down the back stairs? Do you really believe that?
You have never seen so much "What The Hell-ing?" as you would see in that situation. The AUSA would be all over the judge, going WTH? So would Main Justice, so would the arresting officers, so would the jailers, so would the jury, so would the IRS, so would the US Attorney, so would the investigators prepared to testify. And you think the judge is going to say "I can't tell you why I released him, it's private?????"
What you describe is flat impossible.
Please tell me you're joking and this whole thread is just for fun.
OK, before we get into the more serious matters.... I'm not asking for proof, I'm just asking for one example. If this "private" stuff is being done on a regular basis, link to some YouTube videos, or even blogs, where some guy says "I committed this crime, but I told the judge he didn't have any authority over me. He agreed, so I beat a felony charge."
Now, let's look at this "Private" business. Use, as an example, a federal tax evasion charge. Some how the tip comes in. They record the tip and open a file. Investigators are assigned who have to take detailed notes, collect a lot of evidence, possibly make an arrest, and prepare to testify. At the arrest, an officer is involved who takes notes, transfers the prisoner to custody. More notes and more people involved.
While this is going on, the US Attorney decides whether they want to prosecute, let's assume he does, because the freeman hasn't had a chance to talk with him. He then assigns an Assistant US Attorney to the case who opens up a file. They notify Washington, both Justice and IRS, that prosecution is proceeding.
How long do you want me to go on with this? The point is that dozens of people know about it, and are making files, entering statistics, filing motions with the court, setting hearing dates and tentative trial dates.
Now comes the day of the trial. You've seen it (kind of) on television, but there's more record keeping, more people involved. You've also seen on television what happens to the "non-freeman" defendant. He gets jailed and I go get some chips and a beer.
BUT what happens if it's a freeman. He goes into court, asks a few questions, the judge kicks everybody else out of the courtroom, including the Marshals, Looks at the freeman and says, "OK, you can go, I have no jurisdiction," and the freeman goes whistling down the back stairs? Do you really believe that?
You have never seen so much "What The Hell-ing?" as you would see in that situation. The AUSA would be all over the judge, going WTH? So would Main Justice, so would the arresting officers, so would the jailers, so would the jury, so would the IRS, so would the US Attorney, so would the investigators prepared to testify. And you think the judge is going to say "I can't tell you why I released him, it's private?????"
What you describe is flat impossible.
Please tell me you're joking and this whole thread is just for fun.
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 12:28 AM by sonnny1
MOST Judges are going to use this against ANYONE, they deem fit.
Contempt of court
Ive seen it used.
Contempt of court is a court order which, in the context of a court trial or hearing, declares a person or organization to have disobeyed or been disrespectful of the court's authority. Often referred to simply as "contempt," such as a person "held in contempt," it is the judge's strongest power to impose sanctions for acts which disrupt the court's normal process. A finding of contempt of court may result from a failure to obey a lawful order of a court, showing disrespect for the judge, disruption of the proceedings through poor behaviour, or publication of material deemed likely to jeopardize a fair trial. A judge may impose sanctions such as a fine or jail for someone found guilty of contempt of court. Judges in common law systems usually have more extensive power to declare someone in contempt than judges in civil law systems. The client or person must be proven to be guilty before he/she will be punished.
Contempt of court
Ive seen it used.
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 12:33 AM by magickmaster
reply to post by charles1952
You, are the Jokster, not me. You are presenting the SAME OLD WORN OUT arguments that ALL attorneys spew.
You guys play devils advocate like you are the devil and the advocate all rolled into one.
People who do this correctly are not arrested. They are NOT Tax Protestors. They are Tax Payers!!!!
Did you go to elementary school? I keep saying you PAY the Tax with the Acceptance, the FULL fulfillment of the obligation. You, are paying your taxes with federal Reserve Notes and Debt Instruments so you are PAYING NOTHING off, you are only discharging your obligation to the debt and PASSING IT ON to the next guy, keeping the national debt escalating. By doing an Acceptance you inject CREDIT into the account and PAY OFF the debt entirely, and it draws down the National Debt instead of increasing it.
You are Joking, right? You are not this ignorant i'm sure.
You, are the Jokster, not me. You are presenting the SAME OLD WORN OUT arguments that ALL attorneys spew.
You guys play devils advocate like you are the devil and the advocate all rolled into one.
People who do this correctly are not arrested. They are NOT Tax Protestors. They are Tax Payers!!!!
Did you go to elementary school? I keep saying you PAY the Tax with the Acceptance, the FULL fulfillment of the obligation. You, are paying your taxes with federal Reserve Notes and Debt Instruments so you are PAYING NOTHING off, you are only discharging your obligation to the debt and PASSING IT ON to the next guy, keeping the national debt escalating. By doing an Acceptance you inject CREDIT into the account and PAY OFF the debt entirely, and it draws down the National Debt instead of increasing it.
You are Joking, right? You are not this ignorant i'm sure.
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 12:35 AM by magickmaster
reply to post by sonnny1
blah blah blah, i've seen it said many times.
But it's still nothing but blah blah blah, no substance or depth or true meaning, just blah blah blah, just another blah blah blah opinion.
you can interject some random statement that does not pertain, or tried to shut down the conversation, but it's based on ignorance of the situation being discussed.
Obviously you do not want to make the judge angry, and there are ways to avoid that. The judge does not have an interest in the matter, he determines the facts of the evidence of the debt. All you have to do is show the debt is paid, so you bring the acceptance into evidence, and it's in there. No need to call the judge names or raise contempt issues.
blah blah blah, i've seen it said many times.
But it's still nothing but blah blah blah, no substance or depth or true meaning, just blah blah blah, just another blah blah blah opinion.
you can interject some random statement that does not pertain, or tried to shut down the conversation, but it's based on ignorance of the situation being discussed.
Obviously you do not want to make the judge angry, and there are ways to avoid that. The judge does not have an interest in the matter, he determines the facts of the evidence of the debt. All you have to do is show the debt is paid, so you bring the acceptance into evidence, and it's in there. No need to call the judge names or raise contempt issues.
edit on 14-9-2012 by magickmaster because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 12:48 AM by charles1952
reply to post by magickmaster
Roger Elvick? You're putting out legal advice by ROGER ELVICK??? What in the world are you thinking?????
www.ask.com...
And you're spreading this stuff around????? Do you want to get ATSers jailed???
Roger Elvick? You're putting out legal advice by ROGER ELVICK??? What in the world are you thinking?????
Several people who have followed Roger Elvick's instructions have been convicted.[16][17][18][19][20][21] The U.S. Internal Revenue Service has included the "straw man" claim in its list of frivolous positions that may result in the imposition of a $5,000 penalty[4] when used as the basis for an inaccurate tax return.[5] Likewise the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) regards the instructors and promoters of Redemption schemes as fraudsters.[3]
A 2011 NPR report claimed some of the people associated with this movement were imprisoned in a highly restrictive Communication Management Unit.[22]
Promoters
Roger Elvick
In June 1991, Roger Elvick was found guilty by a federal jury in Hawaii of conspiracy to impede justice in connection with federal tax filings under 18 U.S.C. § 371[23] On September 30, 1991, he was fined $100,000, and was sentenced to five years in federal prison and three years of supervised release.[24] Elvick was the national spokesman for the white supremacist group Committee of the States and the president of Common Title, a farm loan scam.[25] He served his time and was released from the federal prison system on December 8, 1997.[26] While incarcerated he was further convicted in another conspiracy.[27] Upon release from prison he restarted the scheme in Ohio, where he was convicted in April 2005 of forgery, extortion and corruption.[1]
www.ask.com...
And you're spreading this stuff around????? Do you want to get ATSers jailed???
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 12:54 AM by sonnny1
Originally posted by magickmaster
reply to post by sonnny1
blah blah blah, i've seen it said many times.
But it's still nothing but blah blah blah, no substance or depth or true meaning, just blah blah blah, just another blah blah blah opinion.
Just like this thread.
Again, I have witnessed it, firsthand. Ive seen a Judge throw someone in jail, for speaking loudly.
Thats not blah blah blah. That was handcuffs, and go to jail. Why dont you go to court, anyone of them, and see for yourself? Just start talking. Explain your video to the Judge, without even having a court date? I dare you.
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 12:55 AM by magickmaster
reply to post by sonnny1
I dare you to go to the police station and call the police a son of a bitch, why don't you?
Your posts are worthless.
I have done this myself, and watched the judge freak out and end the case abruptly, throwing out 17 months of probation, and closing the entire case. So, who are you to talk crap?
I can always tell the agents of the system, the Mr Smiths. In my world, I post and respond to relevant material, and seldom try to sway people very much. It's a lot of trouble to sway people and why go out of your way? So, I post to relevant topics of my interest and knowledge and do not generally post as a know it all on topics that I know little about.
But always there is some Mr Smith who tries and tries to sway public opinion on important threads especially ones involving law and freedom, 9-11 truth material, and cures for cancer and alternative health, and free energy. The ones who try the hardest to land weight to stuff they cannot speak about, are so obviously agents and people with agendas. Otherwise why waste your time trying to convince people of something you have little interest in, or convince them against it. Either way, it's energy spent and I certainly do not have energy to spend trying to con people or sway them into directions or away from directions I have no interest in.
Now, I have an interest in spreading this knowledge. I have experienced it for myself and know of it's power and potential, in the right hands. When I see people try to hard to convince people otherwise, I know there are agendas afoot. I work towards freedom and liberating people, and never advocate anyone going out and doing this without years or proper study. But I also HIGHLY advocate it's study. Now, when someone comes along and says, DO NOT LEARN THIS!, when people are sharing info...I find it HIGHLY suspect.
And of course, he does not say so at first, but the the very first naysayer happens to be a lawyer. How many other lawyers will chime in here and add to the fear and doubt of the info?
Why do that and take the time, at all, A simple warning would suffice. Very suspicious of some people, that's for sure.
I dare you to go to the police station and call the police a son of a bitch, why don't you?
Your posts are worthless.
I have done this myself, and watched the judge freak out and end the case abruptly, throwing out 17 months of probation, and closing the entire case. So, who are you to talk crap?
edit on 14-9-2012 by magickmaster because: (no reason given)
I can always tell the agents of the system, the Mr Smiths. In my world, I post and respond to relevant material, and seldom try to sway people very much. It's a lot of trouble to sway people and why go out of your way? So, I post to relevant topics of my interest and knowledge and do not generally post as a know it all on topics that I know little about.
But always there is some Mr Smith who tries and tries to sway public opinion on important threads especially ones involving law and freedom, 9-11 truth material, and cures for cancer and alternative health, and free energy. The ones who try the hardest to land weight to stuff they cannot speak about, are so obviously agents and people with agendas. Otherwise why waste your time trying to convince people of something you have little interest in, or convince them against it. Either way, it's energy spent and I certainly do not have energy to spend trying to con people or sway them into directions or away from directions I have no interest in.
Now, I have an interest in spreading this knowledge. I have experienced it for myself and know of it's power and potential, in the right hands. When I see people try to hard to convince people otherwise, I know there are agendas afoot. I work towards freedom and liberating people, and never advocate anyone going out and doing this without years or proper study. But I also HIGHLY advocate it's study. Now, when someone comes along and says, DO NOT LEARN THIS!, when people are sharing info...I find it HIGHLY suspect.
And of course, he does not say so at first, but the the very first naysayer happens to be a lawyer. How many other lawyers will chime in here and add to the fear and doubt of the info?
Why do that and take the time, at all, A simple warning would suffice. Very suspicious of some people, that's for sure.
edit on 14-9-2012 by
magickmaster because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 01:01 AM by charles1952
reply to post by magickmaster
This is not a joke post. You have accused me of being corrupt. With the legal knowledge you have, you should know that's libel. I will give you an opportunity to clarify your remarks. Perhaps they were made in the heat of debate. Please explain what you really meant to say.
This is not a joke post. You have accused me of being corrupt. With the legal knowledge you have, you should know that's libel. I will give you an opportunity to clarify your remarks. Perhaps they were made in the heat of debate. Please explain what you really meant to say.
reply posted on 14-9-2012 @ 01:07 AM by magickmaster
reply to post by charles1952
More Lawyer speak, huh?
I explained my comments in the following post. You are corrupt in your soul, because you deny others the ability to learn for themselves. You owe it to people to give your mind and opinion, but to try to sway people from freedom, because you have a license, is CORRUPT!
Roger Elvick is a good person, who never tried to hurt anyone. You are spreading libel by quoting libel. Many good people go to jail for being honest, and trying to straighten out the system. You spread hate by spreading misinformation based on hate by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
More Lawyer speak, huh?
I explained my comments in the following post. You are corrupt in your soul, because you deny others the ability to learn for themselves. You owe it to people to give your mind and opinion, but to try to sway people from freedom, because you have a license, is CORRUPT!
Roger Elvick is a good person, who never tried to hurt anyone. You are spreading libel by quoting libel. Many good people go to jail for being honest, and trying to straighten out the system. You spread hate by spreading misinformation based on hate by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
edit on 14-9-2012 by magickmaster because: (no reason given)
edit on 14-9-2012 by magickmaster because: (no reason
given)
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