Crude Dudes (from ATSNN)

Some that posted here asked about "secret Documents", giving the "proof". I've found a "site" that has lists upon lists of "URLS", I've listed some, below.

Clyde Prestowitz, "America the Arrogant: Why Don't We Listen Anymore?" The Washington Post, 7 July 2002, p. B1

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"The way things are going, it will soon be the United States against the world."

That comment, by a top political leader in Kuala Lumpur, was just one of hundreds of expressions of a new and disturbing alienation from America that I heard during a recent swing through 14 Asian, European and Latin American capitals.

What a contrast to the supportive attitudes abroad immediately after Sept. 11. Then, the sometimes anti-American French journal Le Monde captured the world's sentiment with a headline proclaiming: "We are all Americans." Ten months later, sympathy for the victims of the terror attacks remains. But the American image is increasingly perceived as ugly, and support abroad for U.S. policies is plummeting -- in response to such U.S. actions as the threat last week to withdraw its peacekeepers from Bosnia unless Americans are exempted from jurisdiction of the new International Criminal Court.

Of course, anti-Americanism is not new, but what I found disturbing after 35 years of visiting these cities was that foreign leaders who have been longtime friends of the United States are the ones voicing dismay.





www.mtholyoke.edu...


Thom Shanker and David E. Sanger, "U.S. Blueprint to Topple Hussein Envisions Big Invasion Next Year," New York Times, 28 April 2002

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WASHINGTON, April 27 � The Bush administration, in developing a potential approach for toppling President Saddam Hussein of Iraq, is concentrating its attention on a major air campaign and ground invasion, with initial estimates contemplating the use of 70,000 to 250,000 troops.

The administration is turning to that approach after concluding that a coup in Iraq would be unlikely to succeed and that a proxy battle using local forces there would be insufficient to bring a change in power.

But senior officials now acknowledge that any offensive would probably be delayed until early next year, allowing time to create the right military, economic and diplomatic conditions. These include avoiding summer combat in bulky chemical suits, preparing for a global oil price shock, and waiting until there is progress toward ending the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Until recently, the administration had contemplated a possible confrontation with Mr. Hussein this fall, after building a case at the United Nations that the Iraqi leader is unwilling to allow the kind of highly intrusive inspections needed to prove that he has no weapons of mass destruction.

Now that schedule seems less realistic. Conflict in the Middle East has widened a rift within the administration over whether military action can be undertaken without inflaming Arab states and prompting anti-American violence throughout the region.

In his public speeches, President Bush still sounds as intent as ever about ousting Mr. Hussein, making it clear that he will not let the Middle East crisis obscure his goal. But he has not issued any order for the Pentagon to mobilize its forces, and today there is no official "war plan."

Instead, policy makers and operational commanders are trying to sketch out the broad outlines of the confrontation they expect.

Among the many questions they must address is where to base air and ground forces in the region.

Even before Mr. Bush's tense meeting with Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia on Thursday, the Pentagon was working on the assumption that it might have to carry out any military action without the use of bases in the kingdom.





www.mtholyoke.edu...


www.comw.org...


www.comw.org...


Justifications for a War Against Iraq


www.mtholyoke.edu...


Secret Bechtel Documents Reveal: Yes, It Is About Oil
By David Lindorff
CounterPunch
April 9, 2003

Is the war against Iraq all about oil? Not to hear Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tell it. Back on Nov. 15, he called the notion that oil was the real reason behind the Bush administration's drive against Saddam Hussein "nonsense," saying, "It has nothing to do with oil, literally nothing to do with oil."

But a new study released by the Institute for Policy Studies, based upon secret diplomatic cables just declassified by the National Archives, and internal communications of the Bechtel Corporation, suggests just the opposite--that oil is the underlying cause of this war.

The study, which discloses the intimate links between the Bechtel Corporation and Bechtel executives and U.S. policy towards Iraq, also shows that some key players in the push for America's war against Iraq, including Rumsfeld, Vice President Dick Cheney, and other former Reagan administration officials Roger Robinson, Judge William B. Clark and Robert McFarlane, have been intimately involved in issues relating to Iraqi oil as far back as the1980s.

Titled "Crude Vision: How Oil Interests Obscured US Government Focus on Chemical Weapons Use by Saddam Hussein," this report traces an intense effort by Reagan officials in the mid-OE80s to win Hussein's approval for a $2-billion oil pipeline to be built by Bechtel, running from the Euphrates oilfields in southern Iraq westward to Jordan and the Gulf of Aqaba.


www.globalpolicy.org...





There are many more "URLS" on this "site" I found;.......................

www.mtholyoke.edu...

to many to list on this "thread", what strikes me as" strange", is that some of the URLS that do work but once a person goes into it, the information is gone,.............. what are they trying to hide.

Nanna the invasion of Iraq was the top priority of bush and cheney their records can be track to the day of the invasion.

The reason is for everybody to see. I found more into way was the objective and not bih-laden to beging with.

TextIraq has the world�s second largest proven oil reserves. According to oil industry experts, new exploration will probably raise Iraq�s reserves to 2-300 billion barrels of high-grade crude, extraordinarily cheap to produce, leading to a gold-rush of profits for international oil firms in the post-Saddam era. The four giant firms located in the US and the UK have been keen to get back into Iraq, from which they were excluded with the nationalization of 1972. They face companies from France, Russia, China, Japan and elsewhere, who already have major concessions. But in the post-war setting, with Washington running the show, the US-UK companies expect eventually to overcome their rivals and gain the most lucrative oil deals that will be worth hundreds of billions, even trillions of dollars in profits in the coming decades.


www.globalpolicy.org...

How can any greedy investment with greasy hands like Cheney and Haliburton partners can let the sweet oil in Iraq go to somebody else, the morsel is so tasty it was worth the scorn of the rest of the international community and the death of a third world country, and for our soldiers well at least those greedy sons of b ch has given the status of heros, this is a shame on our country and on us the American people.

Our �most probable� estimate of corporate profits assumes the following:
1. 1. 350 billion barrels of oil reserves;
2. $30 oil rent average over 50 years;
3. Recovery rate of 75%; and
4. Percentage of rent appropriated by private companies at 60%.

The next fifty years for American is looking good at leas for the US base oil companies you and me are still going to be stuck with the high oil prices still.

That is ok we know that the oil is tainted with blood.

You are so right marg and dgtemp. There is no way I would want anything to do with that oil knowing where it came from and the means that this Administration went through, the lying and deceiving , but most of all the blood spilt by both our troops and Iraqi citizens and those poor babies torn apart and killed,......... all for oil.

It wasn't worth that price-tag . Since a lot of people thinks it's alright to do what Bush has done to our troops,... their families and the Iraqis, then they need to go over there and put their lives on the line, sence they agree with it

AGAIN people, take the LIVE WITHOUT CRUDE CHALLENGE before you point the finger and say "bad people" for ensuring you the supply that you demand and is vital for survival.

Here is a basic, rough list of things you need to stop using in order to end your dependancy on the black stuff.

Things oil makes:
fuel oil....heating, energy production, transportation
synthetic fibers....nylon, rayon, and many other fabrics, carpet.... etc
fertalizers/pesticides...these contribute about 1/2 to the growing capasity
wax....candles, waxed containers (milk cartons), polishes and protectorants
detergants.....
food addaitives...preservatives to aid in shelf life for foods
rubbers....synth rubber is way more useful and durable than natural.
medicines...vitamines, pain relievers, and many medical products
films....including optical and things like saran wrap and other protective barriers
plastics....nearly all plastics are based on petrolium to create.
dyes.....most pen inks and other coloration dyes use oil
chemicals....thousands of solvents and other chemicals are created from crude.

now MANY products are combinations of the above...we're talking tens of thousands of products.

Then there are all the jobs tied to manufacturing and shipping and retail that are resultant from all these products....

So now imagine life when a oil crissis develops....think about the skyrocketing prices, think about the increasing job loss...think about the BIG picture instead of focusing on a narrow feel good mentality....
MANY MORE WILL SUFFER if crude oil supplies are not secured for the free market economy to use.

Here is another question....
aside from UNSEEABLE secret documents that article cites...(where are they) it says that the Bush administration was prior to the war creating contingancy plans for many things, including oil.
So some of you think its NOT ok for the USA to be looing at the oil and efforting a strategy thats best for America?
But it is ok for several nations and players to work AGAINST UN sanctions and secretly get into bed with the same person they condemed at the UN? (can you say oil for food scam?) Why? all to secure their piece of the oil pie.
Perhaps those forign companies that were standing to make a killing in iraqi oil were in the position they were because they scammed behind the scenes to get their place eh? Better to secretly ripp off the world than to do it up front eh?


Nana says,

It wasn't worth that price-tag . Since a lot of people thinks it's alright to do what Bush has done to our troops,... their families and the Iraqis, then they need to go over there and put their lives on the line, sence they agree with it

Are you so sure its not worth the price?
first take a look at the casualty figures for this conflict and compare it to other conflicts and you will see this is TAME compared to other wars.

"what Bush has done to the troops and their families..."
WHAT KIND OF LIBERAL PASS OFF RESPONSIBILLITY IS THIS?
We have an all volunteer millitary....those that serve knew the potential was there for a conflict when they enlisted, so did their families.
If they signed up only to play weekend warrior and get cheap education and a paycheck, then they didnt truely understand the job they signed up to do. They could be called to duty at any time by any President.
THEY DID THIS TO THEMSELVES. Yes the President made the call to use millitary force, thats his job, but long before that, those millitary personel were made well aware of what job they signed up for. If your concerned about your person in the millitary now, why didnt you stop them from enlisting to start with?

"Go over and out their lives on the line"
There are alot of people that would go and take the oil for Amerioca, but they wouldnt be being as careful and diplomatic as the USA is now....many would just shoot first, and pump oil second, with little care about the likes of Iraq. Heck some would just nuke the place.
Be careful what you wish for here. Another big strike in the USA, and many will say just end this conflict in the way we have the means to, and stop holding the millitary back politically.

Of course Oil is a major reason for the stratigic value of Iraq, but so is a millitary presence for the USA, so is regional stabillity, so is the fact that no more innocent iraqi's will be gassed or burried in mass graves by saddam and his goon squads. Oil, one of MANY reasons that Iraq is in the interest of the USA.

Oh yeah, i forgot to blame Bush and other leaders in gov and industry for working to make sure you can continue to gobble up your share of petrolium products and not go broke doing it.

TAKE THE NO OIL CHALLENGE!!!!
before you whine about how bad America is for securing it.

AGAIN people, take the LIVE WITHOUT CRUDE CHALLENGE before you point the finger and say "bad people" for ensuring you the supply that you demand and is vital for survival.

Here is a basic, rough list of things you need to stop using in order to end your dependancy on the black stuff.

Things oil makes:
fuel oil....heating, energy production, transportation
synthetic fibers....nylon, rayon, and many other fabrics, carpet.... etc
fertalizers/pesticides...these contribute about 1/2 to the growing capasity
wax....candles, waxed containers (milk cartons), polishes and protectorants
detergants.....
food addaitives...preservatives to aid in shelf life for foods
rubbers....synth rubber is way more useful and durable than natural.
medicines...vitamines, pain relievers, and many medical products
films....including optical and things like saran wrap and other protective barriers
plastics....nearly all plastics are based on petrolium to create.
dyes.....most pen inks and other coloration dyes use oil
chemicals....thousands of solvents and other chemicals are created from crude.

now MANY products are combinations of the above...we're talking tens of thousands of products.

Then there are all the jobs tied to manufacturing and shipping and retail that are resultant from all these products....

So now imagine life when a oil crissis develops....think about the skyrocketing prices, think about the increasing job loss...think about the BIG picture instead of focusing on a narrow feel good mentality....
MANY MORE WILL SUFFER if crude oil supplies are not secured for the free market economy to use.

Here is another question....
aside from UNSEEABLE secret documents that article cites...(where are they) it says that the Bush administration was prior to the war creating contingancy plans for many things, including oil.
So some of you think its NOT ok for the USA to be looing at the oil and efforting a strategy thats best for America?
But it is ok for several nations and players to work AGAINST UN sanctions and secretly get into bed with the same person they condemed at the UN? (can you say oil for food scam?) Why? all to secure their piece of the oil pie.
Perhaps those forign companies that were standing to make a killing in iraqi oil were in the position they were because they scammed behind the scenes to get their place eh? Better to secretly ripp off the world than to do it up front eh?


Nana says,

It wasn't worth that price-tag . Since a lot of people thinks it's alright to do what Bush has done to our troops,... their families and the Iraqis, then they need to go over there and put their lives on the line, sence they agree with it

Are you so sure its not worth the price?
first take a look at the casualty figures for this conflict and compare it to other conflicts and you will see this is TAME compared to other wars.

"what Bush has done to the troops and their families..."
WHAT KIND OF LIBERAL PASS OFF RESPONSIBILLITY IS THIS?
We have an all volunteer millitary....those that serve knew the potential was there for a conflict when they enlisted, so did their families.
If they signed up only to play weekend warrior and get cheap education and a paycheck, then they didnt truely understand the job they signed up to do. They could be called to duty at any time by any President.
THEY DID THIS TO THEMSELVES. Yes the President made the call to use millitary force, thats his job, but long before that, those millitary personel were made well aware of what job they signed up for. If your concerned about your person in the millitary now, why didnt you stop them from enlisting to start with?

"Go over and out their lives on the line"
There are alot of people that would go and take the oil for Amerioca, but they wouldnt be being as careful and diplomatic as the USA is now....many would just shoot first, and pump oil second, with little care about the likes of Iraq. Heck some would just nuke the place.
Be careful what you wish for here. Another big strike in the USA, and many will say just end this conflict in the way we have the means to, and stop holding the millitary back politically.

Of course Oil is a major reason for the stratigic value of Iraq, but so is a millitary presence for the USA, so is regional stabillity, so is the fact that no more innocent iraqi's will be gassed or burried in mass graves by saddam and his goon squads. Oil, one of MANY reasons that Iraq is in the interest of the USA.

Oh yeah, i forgot to blame Bush and other leaders in gov and industry for working to make sure you can continue to gobble up your share of petrolium products and not go broke doing it.

TAKE THE NO OIL CHALLENGE!!!!
before you whine about how bad America is for securing it.

AGAIN people, take the LIVE WITHOUT CRUDE CHALLENGE before you point the finger and say "bad people" for ensuring you the supply that you demand and is vital for survival.

Here is a basic, rough list of things you need to stop using in order to end your dependancy on the black stuff.

Things oil makes:
fuel oil....heating, energy production, transportation
synthetic fibers....nylon, rayon, and many other fabrics, carpet.... etc
fertalizers/pesticides...these contribute about 1/2 to the growing capasity
wax....candles, waxed containers (milk cartons), polishes and protectorants
detergants.....
food addaitives...preservatives to aid in shelf life for foods
rubbers....synth rubber is way more useful and durable than natural.
medicines...vitamines, pain relievers, and many medical products
films....including optical and things like saran wrap and other protective barriers
plastics....nearly all plastics are based on petrolium to create.
dyes.....most pen inks and other coloration dyes use oil
chemicals....thousands of solvents and other chemicals are created from crude.

now MANY products are combinations of the above...we're talking tens of thousands of products.

Then there are all the jobs tied to manufacturing and shipping and retail that are resultant from all these products....

So now imagine life when a oil crissis develops....think about the skyrocketing prices, think about the increasing job loss...think about the BIG picture instead of focusing on a narrow feel good mentality....
MANY MORE WILL SUFFER if crude oil supplies are not secured for the free market economy to use.

Here is another question....
aside from UNSEEABLE secret documents that article cites...(where are they) it says that the Bush administration was prior to the war creating contingancy plans for many things, including oil.
So some of you think its NOT ok for the USA to be looing at the oil and efforting a strategy thats best for America?
But it is ok for several nations and players to work AGAINST UN sanctions and secretly get into bed with the same person they condemed at the UN? (can you say oil for food scam?) Why? all to secure their piece of the oil pie.
Perhaps those forign companies that were standing to make a killing in iraqi oil were in the position they were because they scammed behind the scenes to get their place eh? Better to secretly ripp off the world than to do it up front eh?


Nana says,

It wasn't worth that price-tag . Since a lot of people thinks it's alright to do what Bush has done to our troops,... their families and the Iraqis, then they need to go over there and put their lives on the line, sence they agree with it

Are you so sure its not worth the price?
first take a look at the casualty figures for this conflict and compare it to other conflicts and you will see this is TAME compared to other wars.

"what Bush has done to the troops and their families..."
WHAT KIND OF LIBERAL PASS OFF RESPONSIBILLITY IS THIS?
We have an all volunteer millitary....those that serve knew the potential was there for a conflict when they enlisted, so did their families.
If they signed up only to play weekend warrior and get cheap education and a paycheck, then they didnt truely understand the job they signed up to do. They could be called to duty at any time by any President.
THEY DID THIS TO THEMSELVES. Yes the President made the call to use millitary force, thats his job, but long before that, those millitary personel were made well aware of what job they signed up for. If your concerned about your person in the millitary now, why didnt you stop them from enlisting to start with?

"Go over and out their lives on the line"
There are alot of people that would go and take the oil for Amerioca, but they wouldnt be being as careful and diplomatic as the USA is now....many would just shoot first, and pump oil second, with little care about the likes of Iraq. Heck some would just nuke the place.
Be careful what you wish for here. Another big strike in the USA, and many will say just end this conflict in the way we have the means to, and stop holding the millitary back politically.

Of course Oil is a major reason for the stratigic value of Iraq, but so is a millitary presence for the USA, so is regional stabillity, so is the fact that no more innocent iraqi's will be gassed or burried in mass graves by saddam and his goon squads. Oil, one of MANY reasons that Iraq is in the interest of the USA.

Oh yeah, i forgot to blame Bush and other leaders in gov and industry for working to make sure you can continue to gobble up your share of petrolium products and not go broke doing it.

TAKE THE NO OIL CHALLENGE!!!!
before you whine about how bad America is for securing it.

Dear Mods,
I experianced some serious computer lag and did not mean to multi post my last comments to this thread. I didnt even think it went thru.
Please forgive my sloppieness and remove 2 of the three duplicate posts.

Originally posted by Mahree
the verity of the Star article. Their quotes come from "secret documents". Now if these documents are "secret" how do they know about them. So...they say they have been released. OK my question was if you want us to believe this article shouldn't we be able to see these secret documents?

I hate to burst your bubble but the documents aren't a secret, but they were kept from the public by Cheney and friends until released to the NYtimes and other press organizations by lawsuits filed untder the freedom of information act. The documents are now widely availabe and were maps of Iraqi Oil Fields used during th energy policy meetings held PRIOR TO 9-11. Environmental interests were not privy to the meeting a break with a long standing policy and the details of that meeting were withheld form the public until after the invasin of Iraq. They proove that Cheney and other Bush favored energy groups were already slicing up the pie in Iraq long before the events of 9-11. Another less discussed document from that meeting was a list of the companies involved and what roles they would play in post war Iraq oil dividends.


Oh yeah and CazMedia, nobody is saying that we don't need oil, i think you are missing the basic point here that WAR for oil is wrong. Why not just buy it from them like everybody else does. You are justifying a military invasion and occupation of two soverign nations for our coporate interests and consumer demands. In other words, if the school bully really needs that extra milk, its ok for him to beat you up and take your luch money. PUHLEASE!

[edit on 18-10-2004 by twitchy]

twitchy says

Oh yeah and CazMedia, nobody is saying that we don't need oil, i think you are missing the basic point here that WAR for oil is wrong

Most of you would say that war for ANY reason is wrong....

My point is that fighting over this dwindling commodity IS worth is.
ALL of civilization as it exists is dependant on this substance. Its value is way more than the dollar ammount placed upon it for market purposes.

If we dont fight over this commodity now, we will in the future, especially if it is used as a tool against us. Plenty of others will certantly fight for this substance as it becomes more rare and costly.

Again, to those that say "ohh the precious lives lost" magnify that by 10 if you want to know the minimum level of cassualties resulting from a REAL battle/shortage of this substance.

and as far as Blaming Bush, well, blame yourselves for consuming all those oil products without doing something to relieve this dependancy in your daily lives. Blaming the politicians for giving the society the blood that drives our lives, seems like bitting the hand thats refilling our dinner plate.

Caz, do you actually beleive that the rst of our Gov't,ie., Senators would have given Bush the power they did IF they had KNOWN what the SOB was really up to?????????????

I DON'T THINK SOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's time for that S O B and his cabinet to GO, they've killed enough US citizens, TROOPS, and Iraqi citizens in the four (4) years that they have held the White House and OUR Nation captive. ENOUGH is ENOUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!

This Administration ARE "war criminals" and need to be treated as such !!!!

I really do understand your point, CazMedia, but invading a soverign nation to exploit their resources, then turning around and lying to the american people as to your real reasons is not only just morally irreprehensible, it creates more problems than you may think. Of course I blame the politicians, they legislate the coporate dogma that keeps us dependent on petroleum products. They don't do so out of concerns for a waning energy source, they do so because of corporate influence of foriegn policy for profiteering. Yes I understand our entire economical structure is dependent on a single resource, but I also understand that as the wealthiest nation in the world, we can afford to not only pay for what we use, but we can also afford to be a world leader in innovations to get us the hell off of petroleum. That may not be realistic to the oil conglomerates, but it is a matter of urgency in the real world where the term "peak oil' is no longer a fantastical futuristic terminology. Who would you blame, the consumers? Consumers who have been led to believe by their media that petroleum is the only realistic energy source available? Consider Exxon Mobile recent report, or Bush's energy address when he first took office, we have been led to believe that there is no other way and that simply isn't the case. The blame here lies with the policy makers, and the coporate interests that guide their hands into our pockets. Through disinformation, supression of technology, and glutonous coporate rape of available resources, we have been led to such a misconception that we are willing to justify war, violence, and death to further their agendas. This is clearly in the best interests of only those who stand to gain money, not in the interests of consumers, or of our way of life.
And in response to your first statement, Your damned right I oppose war,
IMO there hasn't been a nessecary war in this country since the French Indian War.

If you shoot at our armed forces, you will reap what your sowing multiple times over. Simple really.

Nana,
If you as a Senator (say Kerry) voted to authorize force to be used at the presidents discretion, then complain that he used the authority YOU granted him...then you are STUPID. (the senator, not you nana)

Did you as a senator think he WOULDNT use the force he was asking you for? (while we were ammassing our army on the border) If you thought there was even a chance of him using the authority you'd grant him, and you oppose that use, then why in the hell did you authorize it to start with?

You dont have to be a mind reader to have seen that the force option WAS going to be used. (hell i said on 911 that iraq was going down with others) Especially if you sit on the forigen intelligence or defense committees....you have MORE knowledge than other members of congress on the details of whats going on.
Are you letting the congress off the hook here in order to "get Bush?" Looks like it.

nana expresses opinion,

they've killed enough US citizens, TROOPS, and Iraqi citizens in the four (4) years that they have held the White House and OUR Nation captive.

Hmm compare and contrast the iraq casualty figures with any other conflict the USA has been in and you'll see this IS TAME in comparrison to a "real" conflict.

Which US citizens did they (the USA GOV) kill? You mean citizens like Nick Berg? that guy got his head chopped off because he was pursuing $$$$$ as a contractor in a war zone. Bush didnt make him go there seeking work...he went there of his own choosing.....well if you choose to go to work in a war zone, you assume the risks there as well.

What captivity do you speak of? i dont feel captivated by the white house.

And as far as some arbitrary # of dead that would be enough....
personally, when more professional, volunteer soldiers are killed than the MURDER rate of the USA's top 5 most violent cities, then mabey its time to review foriegn policy.....far more americans are killed by other americans EVERY YEAR, than we've killed total in iraq.

Again nana you skip over the responsabillity of the soldiers that signed up to serve....by joining the armed forces, you MUST know that at some point, you could be put into a conflict. you might die. They do tell you this UP FRONT before you sign up you know.....it doenst matter WHO the president is, when you become a soldier,you know you could see action.....
most of them were soldiers LONG before Bush was elected.


twitchy,
the oil companies only have as much power as you give them...vote with your wallet and STOP USING PETROLIUM PRODUCTS, and you will cripple them. The only dependancy is one you create for yourselves.

Please show me some examples of where we're exploiting iraqi oil.
why havnt we tanked up our national reserve supply, why arent our oil companies undercutting the world oil markets with cheaper oil?
Why havnt gas prices fallen? why does crude keep going up if we can just pump it and take it?
where is all this exploited oil going? nowhere as its not happening.

Twitchy says,

we can afford to not only pay for what we use, but we can also afford to be a world leader in innovations to get us the hell off of petroleum.

while we may NOW be able to absorb some increase in oil prices, there is an economic limit to how much it will take to plung the world economy into a recession or worse a depression. Avoiding this is a top concern of world leaders im sure, which is why fighting for oilis going to be
priority, again...the negative effects of this outweigh the effects of a localized conflict in iraq FOR EVERYONE!

As far as developing alternate energy, this also costs alot, and has to be cheap enough to impliment on a huge scale, so not only the companies can make a working product, but make it cost effective enough to make a profit AND still be marketable (meaning people will pay to do this)
this alternate research might show things can be done, but not practically or in an economic manner, or even in a timely fashion. to reach the goal, mabey 3 other technologies must also be perfected in order to make this happen. (example)

If consumers either dont like the new product or its too expensive to be
adopted by the masses, then its not going to be successfully integrated into widespread enough use to make a difference or even survive.

Until this magical time comes, OIL will be worth fighting for.

TAKE THE USE NO OIL PRODUCTS CHALLENGE!!


[edit on 21-10-2004 by CazMedia]

[edit on 21-10-2004 by CazMedia]