Do animals have souls? - Stories that prove they have and share the same empathy we do (or should)

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by Nyiah

Originally posted by trysts
A dictionary is not an authority on word use, it is a guide for general meanings, spellings, etc. Your dictionary does not define a "soul", you are using the dictionary incorrectly. So you can't really claim to know what a "soul" is "by definition", based upon the dictionary. The link between a god and a soul, is simply through asking what a soul is. For people who wish to say that the "soul" is somehow an independent concept from other fantasies such as heaven, hell, the privileged state of humans, etc, they are ignoring the narrative of the word "soul", in the history of religion, mythology, folklore, etc.

If someone says, "I don't believe in gods, fairies, or metaphysical destinies, but I believe in a soul", then there should be an argument for why someone would use the word, "soul" to describe something not tied to the former concepts one does not believe in. It's just like using the word "god", it carries with it some obvious historical baggage.


And you are not the authority of linguistic evolution. You do not have the luxury of demanding a word only mean something if tied into one specific argument. I am an atheist. I define a soul as someone's essence, that unique sense of self that defines them as THEM. I do not ascribe to a religion to tell me this, it shouldn't have to have that stipulation. It is not up to you to tell speakers of the language how the word can progress and flow over time in it's usage. If you think you think all words should mean the same thing as their origins or high of usage meanings, then we'd have an ENTIRELY different version on English going today. Language is fluid, not static. Get used to definitions changing with the tides of time.


Great, we can neglect history so that you feel like a special kind of person. lol You obviously can use any word you like for anything you want to say, and just claim you have the power to defy clear communication. You actually think that calling an individual's uniqueness, a "soul", is somehow not confusing to those of us who would like to be much more careful with the implications of the words we use? Words have a history, and abstract terms live in their history.




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by trysts
 

I think it is you who is neglecting history to feel special. You've ignored plenty of evidence presented by at least one poster showing that the term "soul" is not limited to religious terminology. Actually, that's not neglecting anything to simply feel special, that's just arguing to be arrogant.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Nyiah
reply to post by trysts
 

I think it is you who is neglecting history to feel special. You've ignored plenty of evidence presented by at least one poster showing that the term "soul" is not limited to religious terminology. Actually, that's not neglecting anything to simply feel special, that's just arguing to be arrogant.


Plenty of evidence? lol. Someone pasted a dictionary definition, and another posted that the soul finds it's origins in religion and metaphysics, which is not inconsistent with what I'm saying, since I believe metaphysics to be linguistically sophisticated mysticism.

I don't know that you have a point other than finding me "arrogant".



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Nice debate, however a bit out of the realm of the topic and a question I asked.

Any other inputs?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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Why do humans think they are superior over other life forms? This species has an ego problem.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Allow me to relate a story, from which you can draw your own conclusions.

About 10 or 15 years ago I had two dogs, A german shepard and a shepard husky mix. We got the shepard when the husky mix was about one and a half. They were the best of friends and you rarely found one without the other. Years went by and they were always together.

One day when she was 9 the shepard had an accident which injured her back to the point where we had to make that difficult decision that every pet owner dreads. We took her to the vets to be put to sleep. We didn't take the shep husky with us. That is a decision that I will regret till the day I die.

When we had gotten home the shep husky was waiting at the door. She didn't even aknowlege us, but looked out the door behind us looking for her best buddy. That alone broke my heart as she had a very sad look on her face and hung her head as if in sorrow. Then I asked her if she needed to go out. She aknowleged that she did so I opened the door to let her out. She walked over to the shephards favorite chew toy and picked it up and walked out the door. She walked up the driveway almost to the end and laid the toy down. Then she sat and looked left and right as if looking to see if her friend was there. She then got up and with her head hanging low walked back to the door.

I let her in she never needed to relieve herself. She was saying goodbye to her friend. She was in a down mood for three weeks after that. she just moped around and we had trouble getting her to eat. Then one day about three weeks later I was able to get her to play her favorite game of catch the frisbee. After that she was ok till we lost her at the age of 17.

I will never forget the look on her face when she realized that her friend was not coming home. Such pain, her behavior clearly showed a since of loss. Just like a human.

So draw your own conclusions. I have drawn mine.
edit on 9/13/2012 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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Such a beautiful thread! I'm a big animal lover, and a crazy cat lady who takes in rescues, so you'll get no argument from me about our furry and finned friends being sentient beings. I also believe they have souls.

I'm an agnostic who was raised Christian. Although I still find things in the bible which are quite true and deep, believers in the Abrahamic religions often have a view of animals that irritates me. They take the idea from the book of Genesis in which God gives man "dominion over all the animals". As with a great many things in the bible, I believe a lot of it is lost in translation, and cannot be taken 100% literally.

However, there is a verse I like from Ecclesiastes (3:21), in which King Solomon muses over the fate of souls:
"Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

Most of the bible goes on to say that only humans have souls. In that sense, I do heartily disagree with it. Yes, I think religion has a lot to do with how people view animals. However, it doesn't square up with most people's experiences and vibes they get from the other creatures on this planet, so I think it was written during a time when most people were having trouble just surviving, and it is easier to kill a pet farm animal for food if you think that they don't have a spirit (or soul). Written by men, I might add, and not divinely dictated by God himself.

As far as I'm concerned, animals have souls, feelings, heart, and are much more deserving of our love and respect than they seem to get. Cats, in particular, seem to see beyond into other dimensions.

With that, I present Oscar the Cat, the famous resident of a Rhode Island nursing home who has an uncanny ability to sense when somebody is near death, and stays with them in their final hours, comforting them until they pass:




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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Great thread, OP!

That story about Christian the lion is heartwarming. I'm a big animal lover, and without a doubt I believe animals have a soul. They know more about unconditional love than us humans do, and I think anyone who's owned a pet and raised them with the love they deserve, knows this.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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I don't believe in souls, religion, or God, but I do believe in love.

Not afraid to admit this thread made me shed a tear, it makes you re-evaluate life and your priorities.

Thank you OP, a million stars and flags if I could...



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Yes, they do.

Example #12: This poster's cat, Milton, is awesome.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Nice thread OP, might I add..

Dog stands guard over deceased owner’s grave for six years


An extremely dedicated dog has continued to show its loyalty, keeping watch on its owner's grave six years after he passed away.

Capitan, a German shepherd, reportedly ran away from home after its owner, Miguel Guzman, died in 2006. A week later, the Guzman family found the dog sitting by his grave in central Argentina.

Miguel Guzman adopted Capitan in 2005 as a gift for his teenage son, Damian. And for the past six years, Capitan has continued to stand guard at Miguel's grave. The family says the dog rarely leaves the site.

"We searched for him, but he had vanished," widow Veronica Guzman told LaVoz.com. "We thought he must have got run over and died.

'The following Sunday we went to the cemetery, and Damian recognized his pet. Capitan came up to us, barking and wailing as if he were crying."

Adding to the unusual circumstances, Veronica says the family never brought Capitan to the cemetery before he was discovered there.

"It is a mystery how he managed to find the place," she said.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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Religion is based on fables and bullsh!t and seems to feed a need that some people require. It has kept mankind in the dark ages for centuries and caused much split, division and hatred between tribes. Religion does not unite, but divide. Once scrutinised, any religion falls to pieces.
We may very well have a creator,
we may very well be reincarnated here repeatedly for moral growth,
but this has little to do with earthly religions,
A person can be spiritual in nature
and not be sitting in the front pew of church every Sunday.

I am a part time farmer and keep livestock.
You better believe they are very much like us in many ways.
If we house a spirit,
then so do they, perhaps a little less sophisticated,
but even the humble cow is an individual.
Some are kind, some are bullies, some very maternal, some are aggressive.
If you work in close proximity with animals on a daily basis
you will see distinct differences in some.
When fear is eradicated from the animal
then you will see their personality.
So yes, IMHO, they do have a spirit.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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Yea I can say that animals have souls, or a spirit. Not like humans in the same exact details, but have the same general feelings as we do. I didnt see anyone bring up the verse from Ecclesiates so here it is.



Ecclesiastes 3:20-21
3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


So animals do have souls as said in this scripture passage. But they do not go upward, to heaven, but just return back to the ground.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:58 PM
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Yes animals have souls.
Buddhism belies this too.
I hope to reincarnate as a house cat then dog.

I have had animals as a part of my family sine I was born.
I am 50 now and have a dog and gold fish.
When my dog is bored she will sigh and look at me.

When the fish sees me in the room
it knows I feed it and will try to get my attention.
And people try to tell you fish don’t have a memory!



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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If I have a soul then so do animals - simples!

But are we only talking about mammals? My parrots seem to hate each other but appear to love us, and without a doubt use language appropriately at times. The other day I went to bed for a couple of hours as working a night shift. One of my parrots watched me go upstairs. About half an hour later she flew upstairs and landed on my (closed) bedroom door handle and proceeded to knock on the door with her beak saying 'what you doing'?

And what about reptiles, fish, insects......bacteria? Slugs?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by gigaherc
 


I want to thank you for one of the most uplifting reminders I have had in a very long time! S&F It is truly a heart warming reminder to never loose sight of because what I see here are animals with big spirits teaching man unconditional love and giving us hope in one another, to not only try to do the same for each other but also to take care of the one's that take it upon themselves to take care of us.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by gigaherc
 


Thank you OP. I would have questioned similar had I enough to say to accumulate credit for a post.
yes yes, animals have emotions, self awareness.
we can put two humans look exactly the same together, but we know they are different, I think that part defines their difference is the soul.
similar we can put two exact looking puppies together and owners will make no mistake seperating them, for lot of times their puppies just "look" like their owners


stars!



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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and actually, there are so much more to say.
but its just sad that things like this have to be explained out as if people really don't understand.(esp in east asia and my country the p.r. of c). are we all we consider humans? are they only what we consider animals? if what we define as human developement is based on the suffering of what we define as only animals, all what we define as only animals wanted is to be away from what we define as humans and human development. hope someone with better english could rephrase for me what I am trying to say.
should what we define as humans have souls in the first place...



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:06 AM
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Yes I believe they have souls! Animals have beautiful souls. They should be respected and loved. I've always loved them.

S&F



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by buddha
When the fish sees me in the room
it knows I feed it and will try to get my attention.
And people try to tell you fish don’t have a memory!

I've seen friends' Betta fish go bonkers in their tank when they see their human come home. It's like they're feverishly running excited laps & try to jump out of the tank at them, "OMG, you'rehome!you'rehome!you'rehome!you'rehome!HIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!" Bettas seem to have really loyal attachments to their people, so memory? Of course they have it :lol

reply to post by lonegurkha
 

This made me cry a little. In the summer of '04, I had to put down one of my cats, my best furry buddy. She was about 9 then, and our other cat was about 15. We'd had both for almost a decade at that point, these were my childhood cats, and each was the others BFF.
After we found out our younger cat, C, was riddled with cancer & tumors, we decided to have her euthanized instead of continuing to watch her slowly waste away. When we came back from the vet without her, the older cat, P, sat at the door & just waited. And waited. And waited. We think he sat there overnight waiting, because he was still there the next morning, too. He eventually went and sat in front of the TV & stared up top at the spot on it that she used to lay on to nap. He did that every day for several weeks, quietly yowling this sad, cry-like meow from time to time. After probably close to a month, he was an outright depressed lump, laying in the same spot by the TV all day, every day, not moving. There were some stretches that we thought he'd died of a broken heart because he hadn't moved in so long. He'd dropped from about 10 lbs down to a little over 3 in that time frame, getting him to eat was so difficult. He'd also begun pulling his fur out by the mouthfuls to the point of damaging his skin. The vet said he was DEFINITELY depressed & grieving his friend. Because of his older age, the vet was very hesitant to give him kitty uppers, and suggested we consider looking for a new friend for him, to help him get past the grief stage.
Eventually, we did find a new friend to adopt for him, A, and his self-destructive hair-ripping dropped, although it didn't stop. He was very...dare I say reluctant to interact with the new friend, they've always been on somewhat icy terms. The hair pulling didn't stop entirely until we'd found a stray kitten outside in a storm one night that ended up being VERY close in personality to her. There's almost 15 years between them in age, and they're inseparable. The spring in his step came back, he gained most of his weight back, and his even fur regrew in the spots we thought would be permanently bald. It's eerie sometimes. W acts so much like C did to the point of me calling him by her name sometimes. I wonder about reincarnation sometimes, and sometimes wonder if it's possible she came back as W.


Geez, I cried reading your experience with your dogs, and now I'm crying all over again. I guess I never really dealt with all of it as well as I thought I had back then
edit on 9/14/2012 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)
edit on 9/14/2012 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)





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