See what you mean 5min in myself and I'm hooked already
SUPPRESSED: New Evidence of Early Man , page 1
reply posted on 13-9-2012 @ 01:53 PM by rangersdad
reply to post by Komodo
I just finished watching the video and its very interesting. Even the part where the artifacts are up to 500,000 yrs old...but why didnt they find any skeletons of man from that time period? Why were people threatened when they wanted to see what was dug up (artifact wise) over 40 yrs ago????
I just finished watching the video and its very interesting. Even the part where the artifacts are up to 500,000 yrs old...but why didnt they find any skeletons of man from that time period? Why were people threatened when they wanted to see what was dug up (artifact wise) over 40 yrs ago????
reply posted on 13-9-2012 @ 02:15 PM by moniesisfun
reply to post by lonegurkha
I think it's like the notion that if our governments inform us that aliens are real (assuming they are and visit, of course), it may cause social unrest. I think this is tied into the fact that many still believe literal interpretations of the bible.
Basically either: aliens being legit, or man existing at a high level of tech long, long ago...may conflict with sacred texts that depict a different story. It may cause people to enter such a state of cognitive dissonance, that they're willing to fight for their absurd beliefs and cause a lot of chaos.
I don't really know, though. Just a thought.
I think it's like the notion that if our governments inform us that aliens are real (assuming they are and visit, of course), it may cause social unrest. I think this is tied into the fact that many still believe literal interpretations of the bible.
Basically either: aliens being legit, or man existing at a high level of tech long, long ago...may conflict with sacred texts that depict a different story. It may cause people to enter such a state of cognitive dissonance, that they're willing to fight for their absurd beliefs and cause a lot of chaos.
I don't really know, though. Just a thought.
reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 06:10 AM by Komodo
reply to post by rangersdad
the only thing I can think of is..
the bones were to small and age eroded them back to the earth .. where as the mammoth was massive and took longer.. but i don't really know..
.but why didnt they find any skeletons of man from that time period?
the only thing I can think of is..
the bones were to small and age eroded them back to the earth .. where as the mammoth was massive and took longer.. but i don't really know..
reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 09:01 AM by Astyanax
reply to post by lonegurkha
A better question may be, is it being suppressed at all?
Having watched about half the video, I had a little google using the terms 'Valsequillo' and 'Hueyatlaco'. I found plenty of discussion about the ongoing scientific controversy, with quite a few publications putting forward evidence to support the various positions – and, it seems, a fair amount of acceptance within the archaeological community that, while the dating of the Hueyatlaco strata to around a quarter of a million years is very anomalous with respect to the current picture of human evolution and geographical diffusion, it is probably valid. The methods used and the competence of the researchers are not in serious doubt.
The Wikipedia page on Hueyatlaco gives a very clear, concise account of the controversy, describing the various claims, quoting and often linking to the publications in which they are made. Clearly, there's not much suppression going on within the scientific community.
But earlier, it is true, there were two parties trying to keep the Hueyatlaco research quiet.
One was Jose Lorenzo, the elderly Mexican academic who accused Cynthia Irwin-Williams, the eminent archaeologist who led the first excavation at Hueyatlaco, of salting the site with artefacts. He also appears to have threatened her Mexican fieldworkers and had 'confessions' of salting extracted from them under duress. Parties associated with him may also have been behind the mysterious disappearance of Wilson's Hueyatlaco finds in Mexico. Dating these vanished artefacts would resolve the controversy once and for all.
Lorenzo's motive seems to have been simple professional jealousy combined with macho male chauvinism. There may have been a political angle, though; traditionally, in Mexico, there has been friction between the Mestizos, the people with Spanish blood who tended to be landowners and members of the elite, and the Indios, most of whom were dirt-poor and harshly exploited. There have been many revolts and uprisings in Mexico's history, and key members of the government and the mestizo upper class may have been persuaded by Lorenzo that a prior claim to the territory of Mexico going back 20,000 years might strengthen the hands of the Indios and their sympathisers. Academics in poor, backward countries, who are usually members of their countries' tiny, closely connected elites, are well known for this kind of skullduggery; frankly, there's quite a lot of it where I live. But remember, all this was a very long time ago and Mexico is a different country now.
The other person trying to suppress information about Hueyatlaco – in this case, the stratigraphic dating evidence – was, oddly enough, Williams herself. As her protégé, Virginia Steen-McIntyre, explains in the video, her reasons were simply that she didn't think the dating was credible, and feared the disbelief and ridicule that might result from their publication. Having already been burned once by the Lorenzo affair, she must have feared greatly for her reputation and career. It's notable that the list of publications on her Wikipedia page contains nothing about Hueyatlaco, and she is known to have broken with many of her colleagues over the dating issue. However, Williams died in 1990 after years of chronic respiratory illness (a career spent inhaling rock chips will do that to you) and any influence she might once have wielded is no more.
So yes, there was suppression, but not at all systematic and ultimately unsuccessful – apart, of course, from the critical issue of the stolen artefacts. But it was carried out long ago by individuals, largely for personal reasons. There is honestly nothing to suggest a cover-up by the scientific community, or by the present authorities Mexico, or a shadowy cabal of the Mexican or global elite, or anyone else of that kind.
The debate continues, unsuppressed. See, for example, The stratigraphic debate at Hueyatlaco, Valsequillo, Mexico by Harold E. Malde, Virginia Steen-McIntyre, Charles W. Naeser, and Sam L. VanLandingham.
What I don't understand is why supress this?
A better question may be, is it being suppressed at all?
Having watched about half the video, I had a little google using the terms 'Valsequillo' and 'Hueyatlaco'. I found plenty of discussion about the ongoing scientific controversy, with quite a few publications putting forward evidence to support the various positions – and, it seems, a fair amount of acceptance within the archaeological community that, while the dating of the Hueyatlaco strata to around a quarter of a million years is very anomalous with respect to the current picture of human evolution and geographical diffusion, it is probably valid. The methods used and the competence of the researchers are not in serious doubt.
The Wikipedia page on Hueyatlaco gives a very clear, concise account of the controversy, describing the various claims, quoting and often linking to the publications in which they are made. Clearly, there's not much suppression going on within the scientific community.
But earlier, it is true, there were two parties trying to keep the Hueyatlaco research quiet.
One was Jose Lorenzo, the elderly Mexican academic who accused Cynthia Irwin-Williams, the eminent archaeologist who led the first excavation at Hueyatlaco, of salting the site with artefacts. He also appears to have threatened her Mexican fieldworkers and had 'confessions' of salting extracted from them under duress. Parties associated with him may also have been behind the mysterious disappearance of Wilson's Hueyatlaco finds in Mexico. Dating these vanished artefacts would resolve the controversy once and for all.
Lorenzo's motive seems to have been simple professional jealousy combined with macho male chauvinism. There may have been a political angle, though; traditionally, in Mexico, there has been friction between the Mestizos, the people with Spanish blood who tended to be landowners and members of the elite, and the Indios, most of whom were dirt-poor and harshly exploited. There have been many revolts and uprisings in Mexico's history, and key members of the government and the mestizo upper class may have been persuaded by Lorenzo that a prior claim to the territory of Mexico going back 20,000 years might strengthen the hands of the Indios and their sympathisers. Academics in poor, backward countries, who are usually members of their countries' tiny, closely connected elites, are well known for this kind of skullduggery; frankly, there's quite a lot of it where I live. But remember, all this was a very long time ago and Mexico is a different country now.
The other person trying to suppress information about Hueyatlaco – in this case, the stratigraphic dating evidence – was, oddly enough, Williams herself. As her protégé, Virginia Steen-McIntyre, explains in the video, her reasons were simply that she didn't think the dating was credible, and feared the disbelief and ridicule that might result from their publication. Having already been burned once by the Lorenzo affair, she must have feared greatly for her reputation and career. It's notable that the list of publications on her Wikipedia page contains nothing about Hueyatlaco, and she is known to have broken with many of her colleagues over the dating issue. However, Williams died in 1990 after years of chronic respiratory illness (a career spent inhaling rock chips will do that to you) and any influence she might once have wielded is no more.
So yes, there was suppression, but not at all systematic and ultimately unsuccessful – apart, of course, from the critical issue of the stolen artefacts. But it was carried out long ago by individuals, largely for personal reasons. There is honestly nothing to suggest a cover-up by the scientific community, or by the present authorities Mexico, or a shadowy cabal of the Mexican or global elite, or anyone else of that kind.
The debate continues, unsuppressed. See, for example, The stratigraphic debate at Hueyatlaco, Valsequillo, Mexico by Harold E. Malde, Virginia Steen-McIntyre, Charles W. Naeser, and Sam L. VanLandingham.
reply posted on 15-9-2012 @ 12:21 PM by lonegurkha
reply to post by Astyanax
Watch the video to the end . Recently they wanted to get a permit to go back and take further samples the permit process was diliberately delayed and when they finally got it, they found that the site had been built over and filled in
There was more contraversey when they were prevented from searching for the original artifacts in the warehouse where they are stored.
Some one is actively trying to cover this up And I'm really wondering why..
Watch the video to the end . Recently they wanted to get a permit to go back and take further samples the permit process was diliberately delayed and when they finally got it, they found that the site had been built over and filled in
There was more contraversey when they were prevented from searching for the original artifacts in the warehouse where they are stored.
Some one is actively trying to cover this up And I'm really wondering why..
edit on 9/15/2012 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 16-9-2012 @ 12:08 AM by Astyanax
reply to post by lonegurkha
Thanks. I'll take your word for it.
That could just be property developers doing what property developers do wherever they're allowed to. No-one is claiming that Mexico is corruption-free.
Yes, well... who knows what else is going on in that warehouse?
If you insist. That someone, then, is evidently in Mexico, and their reasons, whatever they are, must be pretty parochial. Remember the political angle I mentioned earlier. This may still be a consideration in some people's minds, especially now that the PRI is back in power. Old men dreaming dreams, you know. Certainly the cover-up is not in the world of archaeology, nor does it seem to extend beyond Mexico.
Watch the video to the end.
Thanks. I'll take your word for it.
Recently they wanted to get a permit to go back and take further samples the permit process was diliberately delayed and when they finally got it, they found that the site had been built over and filled in.
That could just be property developers doing what property developers do wherever they're allowed to. No-one is claiming that Mexico is corruption-free.
There was more contraversey when they were prevented from searching for the original artifacts in the warehouse where they are stored.
Yes, well... who knows what else is going on in that warehouse?
Some one is actively trying to cover this up And I'm really wondering why.
If you insist. That someone, then, is evidently in Mexico, and their reasons, whatever they are, must be pretty parochial. Remember the political angle I mentioned earlier. This may still be a consideration in some people's minds, especially now that the PRI is back in power. Old men dreaming dreams, you know. Certainly the cover-up is not in the world of archaeology, nor does it seem to extend beyond Mexico.
Christians help me debunk these non sense atheistic beliefs about Genesis please
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