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Looks like the US Ambassador to Libya got exactly what he deserves.

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posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by crawdad1914

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by stonedogdiary]

You're blaming the US for killing people when the Libyan people were killing each other? How dare we step in! How dare we try to help put an end to that! What a cruel country we are.
.


I always have to wonder if people who say what you just did would take a liking to or welcome some other country stepping on our turf and start blowing away Amercans and destroying our cities to "help" us if we started a civil war?

Its not our place to interfere. We would flip out if anothr country had the audacity to tell Americans how our country should be ran. The military, despite good intentions, are fighting foreign enmies abroad while our real enemies and the only ones who truly threaten our freedom are right here at home.



This question you posed is never anwered, and rarely addressed by those in favor of our nation building foreign policy the last 60 plus years. The point you make is paramount in understanding the blowback we receive.


Yep. If we wouldn't like the Chinese to "help" us out...why is it so hard to understand that the Middle East might not need any more "help" from us?




posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Dextraphite
Because Chris Stevens was totally deserving of what happens. And because a "civilized, awesome," country totally sodomizes people before killing them and then dragging their body through the streets.


I never said Libya was "awesome and civilized"...did I?

I'm just saying that we have no right whatsoever to be "outraged" that the guy was brutally killed when prior to being named ambassador he helped start a civil war and toppled a dictator.

Really...what did we think was going to happen? That Libya was just going to start building theme parks and strip malls straight away?



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Staroth
OP said: "Looks like the US Ambassador to Libya got exactly what he deserves."

I say: Middle finger to you!
edit on 14-9-2012 by Staroth because: I actually said F U C K you to the OP but felt it would get pulled


Right back at ya'.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Well, the problem might be semantics...how do you define a "stable, western-style, secular, democratically-inspired, republican forms of government?"

Emphasis on 'stable.'
edit on 9/14/2012 by queenannie38 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 



No one pushed an agenda with this situation.
Other than concern over the Libyans who were not being taken care of by their so-called leader, but attacked.


OK, its clear you believe the "official" version of events, but I can tell you I remember very clearly watching UK coverage in the weeks leading up to that UN resolution. Every single day there was William Hague (UK Foreign Minister) going to all the UN member countries, pushing his agenda for a resolution for Libya, a resolution that would lead to military action & the overthrow of Ghadaffi.

Not one person I know believed a word he was saying (his concern for the people of Libya and Britain's aim wasn't regime change), we all knew what they were planning to do & its exactly what they did.

He was interviewed on TV news basically everyday, pushing it & pushing it & pushing it.

If thats not pushing an agenda I don't know what is, so if you want to stick your head in the sand be my guest.


So does that mean you feel no sympathy for Stevens and therefore for Gaddafi?
Or some for Gaddafi and therefore some for Stevens?


Well if you had read my earlier posts where I said:


While I have sympathy for anyone who dies in tragic circumstances and I would have unwavering sympathy for their innocent families who must bear the brunt of their loss, I must admit I have less sympathy for those who partake in less than savory behavior, a consequence of which would be their death. Unfortunately the ambassador falls into the latter category.


Its clear I have sympathy for Stephens (alby less sympathy than an innocent) so therefore I have sympathy for both.




It also wasn't a lynch mob in the true sense of the word...in that a lynch mob usually goes on the hunt for their victim.


From my recollection they were searching the country for him at the time, he was on the run & no one had seen him for days except for rumored sightings. Everyone was on high alert for a sighting, if thats not hunting him I don't know what is.


It depends on how one defines 'leader,' I suppose.


It was Muammar Gaddafi that other nations spoke to if they wanted to do business with Libya, so in that sense he was their leader and I don't think that was in question.


It was the UN that decided to do this and it was NATO that did it.
No one is going to profit from their oil or other wealth...in fact, they unfroze Gaddafi's assets so that the new Libya could use the funds for their start up endeavors...said endeavors being their decision and under their control...no one is there now...or rather there weren't...no ground occupation forces at all.

No one saw dollar signs on this situation.
They saw people in danger of their lives for wanting to be free...they saw their neighbors having revolution so they did it, themselves...and yes, I know they lost 30,000...but that wasn't because we went in...that was WHY we went in.


If you believe this I feel sorry for you, but I know that will mean F'all to you.


So you are saying that Mr. Stevens stirred up sedition and revolution in a country that was doing pretty good before that...from all accounts...both Gaddafi's and the people of Libya?


I never said that, insinuated it or hinted at it. I don't know where you're getting it from.


If you already knew that...why did you write 'perhaps?"


I was saying as a direct result of Mr Steven's actions.

edit on 14-9-2012 by marker3221 because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-9-2012 by marker3221 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Staroth
OP said: "Looks like the US Ambassador to Libya got exactly what he deserves."

I say: Middle finger to you!
edit on 14-9-2012 by Staroth because: I actually said F U C K you to the OP but felt it would get pulled


Right back at ya'.


Lol, people have such knee jerk reactions to situations like this, just because he was an American.
This guy appears to be a CIA operative prior to becoming Ambassador. He infiltrated a foreign country and helped coordinate the take over of a Sovereign Nation.
He was not an innocent bystander.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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I find this thread to be very disturbing and you call yourself an American citizen I'm in "shock and outrage" you even wrote this i have no respect for you!

The American ambassador and his staff did not deserve to die..All they were doing was what they were told to do and thats there job..OP your attitude stinks!

OK I'm done before i end up banned from ATS..No stars or flags from me..peace,sugarcookie1



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by marker3221
 


Well, since you are obviously endowed with super-powers enabling you to do accurate headcounts of youtube shots...then I'm sure you know how to put a search term such as "celebrating gaddafi's death" in the google box and then choosing 'images'.

If not...then I just told you how to do it.

You might not need to, though...if you can count heads maybe you can also determine things like size of the area in the camera and then extrapolate the data given a rough estimate of Libya's population and tell us just how many short of 'all' are we really talking about here.

Or you can choose to maintain a willfully ignorant position or even one that is just plain out rejecting and resisting the facts in favor of something easier for you to deal with, maybe...your own opinion?

You are entitled to that, for sure...


Well now, who's getting patronizing & condescending. I have been nothing but civil to you, most unbecoming.

But disregarding your tone, you asked my opinion on a specific piece of video. I gave you my answer. of course I estimating the head count, I think that was very clear when I said "no more than 3,000" or "between 50 - 70", if I head counted I would have said something like 2,722. But you already knew that before you replied.
edit on 14-9-2012 by marker3221 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
reply to post by LiberLegit
 


Outstanding and very well said.

The asinine and disgusting nation insulting by cowards who don't even have the fortitude to display their own true country in their profile has deteriorated beyond belief in the last couple years here on ATS; they really aren't worth responding to and the old block feature that this message board used to have came in handy for these fools. The author of this thread portrays an image in my mind of someone who is nothing more than a vile repugnant psychopath who doesn't deserve honest intellectual debate. The statement of "Looks like the US Ambassador to Libya got exactly what he deserves." ranks right up there with the simple minded drool monkeys commenting on politically based YouTube video's -welcome to grade 5.
edit on 14-9-2012 by Jocko Flocko because: (no reason given)


OK...aside from your completely subjective opinion do you have anything else to add?



And aside from your baseless, snippety, and condescending statement do you have anything to add? Where does the circle end everybody?



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Well...it just goes to show that life is about something more than being totally taken care of without having to worry about anything at all...except, of course, freedom of speech and privacy and interaction with the outside world.


Huh? Libya had the highest average standard of living of any country in Africa and also far surpassed Saudi Arabia and women had equal rights. Was it a perfect utopia? Hell no...there was still lots and lots of brutality and oppression...but by the standards of the REST OF AFRICA AND THE MIDDLE EAST it was a damn model of human progress. The only way the argument of "the Libyan people were being oppressed" holds water is if you ALSO think we should just overthrow the governments OF EVERY SINGLE NATION IN ALL OF AFRICA. Guess what...it would be really, really cool if everybody in the world wanted to be just like us...BUT IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN AND IT'S NOT OUR PLACE TO MEDDLE...because it ALWAYS BACKFIRES.




As far as the US having a part in putting Gaddafi in power...to that end, they did not go along with Britain's suggestion of stopping Gaddafi's coup to overthrow King Idris.

Yes...but there's more to it than that. We also SUPPORTED Ghadafi in the early 70s because of the way he idolized Egypts Nasser whom we had bought and paid for. We just assumed that Ghadafi would be just like him. Read stories in the US papers from the early 70's and we labeled him a "freedom fighter". Right up until he wanted to nationalize the oil. As soon as ANYBODY says they are nationalizing the oil we immediately brand them as a "terrorist". See: Hugo Chavez.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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The American ambassador and his staff did not deserve to die..All they were doing was what they were told to do and thats there job..OP your attitude stinks!


Yep. Just following orders.

Just like Hitler's boys. They all said they they "were just following orders" as well when tried for war crimes. That phrase was repeated so many times it became known as "The Nuremberg Defense".

Sorry...but everybody is responsible for their actions. I'm guessing somewhere along the way the good "ambassadors" Mom probably told him that starting civil wars was a very bad thing.

He knew better.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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FACTS:
Chris Stevens who had a passion for the Middle East, risked his own life to lend the Libyan people a helping hand to build the foundation for a new, free nation.

He worked hard to build closer ties between the U.S. and Libya.

He was an avid student of Islam and the Middle East, and consistently strove to build the proverbial bridge between our two cultures in the face of sometimes overwhelming antagonism and bitter misunderstanding.

He also was trying to send more Libyan students to study in the U.S. and attract American business to the North African country, part of an effort to strengthen U.S.-Libyan relations after they veered from badly damaged to nonexistent under Gadhafi.

"It's a really exciting time for Libya," Stevens said, and stressed that he would stay in touch. Libya's difficult transition to democracy needed to remain in the public consciousness and not simply disappear under the category of missions accomplished, he explained.

He was a man dedicated to the cause of freedom!



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Juggernog

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Staroth
OP said: "Looks like the US Ambassador to Libya got exactly what he deserves."

I say: Middle finger to you!
edit on 14-9-2012 by Staroth because: I actually said F U C K you to the OP but felt it would get pulled


Right back at ya'.


Lol, people have such knee jerk reactions to situations like this, just because he was an American.
This guy appears to be a CIA operative prior to becoming Ambassador. He infiltrated a foreign country and helped coordinate the take over of a Sovereign Nation.
He was not an innocent bystander.


Exactly. If the Chinese tried doing that here we would call that person a "terrorist".

So why is it different?



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by marker3221




Do we REALLY know what happened in Libya? Do we? I'm not afraid to admit I don't, all I know is what I've read or been told.

Maybe it's the self-righteousness that gets to me. Or maybe it's the concept that for some reason after the mounds of bloodshed and death that happened in Libya some are cheering for even more death, that of an ambassador of their own country. That makes me sick. It's like we preach respect and understanding without bloodshed, yet it's okay when someone dies because we think they "deserved it" no, no I don't buy it at all.


None of us know the full story of what went on in Libya, the day to day, week to week events that led up to the fall of Gaddafi would be very intricate, delicate and complicated.

However, the motivation, the reason they (they: America, Britain & France) undertook this task is at its core, very, very simple: Libya's oil reserves, their black gold.

Now, onto the question of the ambassador. While I have sympathy for anyone who dies in tragic circumstances and I would have unwavering sympathy for their innocent families who must bear the brunt of their loss, I must admit I have less sympathy for those who partake in less than savory behavior, a consequence of which would be their death.

Unfortunately the ambassador falls into the latter category. He knowingly partook in an armed rebellion where, under his direction & guidance (and not only his), hundreds, perhaps thousands, of nameless people met their death including the country's previous leader who died at the hands of a lynch mob. This man was no innocent.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I am a firm believer in that philosophy. If you choose to make rebellion, insurrection war & death your line of business you cannot feign innocence when you meet a grisly end. Now one may argue that he was the ambassador & so his role was peaceful only & I would agree, if that was all he was. But we learned he was not, he played a key role in the rebellion.

However, of course it is tragic for his family who deserve all the sympathy in the world, but one must keep perspective here. It is not healthy to lean too heavily one way or the other, so while we shouldn't condemn his name into the ground, we also shouldn't be sugarcoating his role & pretending he was a wholly innocent man either.


edit on 14-9-2012 by marker3221 because: (no reason given)


So you think that in this ambassador's mind he was fighting for the liberation of Libya because he wanted America to get its hand on their oil reserves along with other countries? You must have been really close with him.

You don't think these radical Muslims who express anger over a stupid video deserve death? Enough anger to kill four other men? They are excused for their lack of tolerance for free speech in OTHER COUNTRIES? Come on. I'm tired of bowing down to Islam. I want pictures of Muhammad painted like a clown on the highest perch for all of them to see. They need to learn others don't think the way they do and they need to learn it NOW. Every other religion has faced persecution, and the reason Islam isn't poked in the same way is because we are afraid of their violent regressions.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Why can't we be outraged when ANYONE is brutally murdered?
No matter the situation?



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder
I'm guessing somewhere along the way the good "ambassadors" Mom probably told him that starting civil wars was a very bad thing.

He knew better.


Lets be clear. Christ Steven's, while not being an innocent in all of this, certainly did not start the civil war in Libya. He helped to escalate it & drive it toward the desired result of the West, but start it? No, no way.
edit on 14-9-2012 by marker3221 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by marker3221

Originally posted by milominderbinder
I'm guessing somewhere along the way the good "ambassadors" Mom probably told him that starting civil wars was a very bad thing.

He knew better.


Lets be clear. Christ Steven's, while not being an innocent in all of this, certainly did not start the civil war in Libya. He helped to escalate it & drive it toward the desired result of the West, but start it? No, no way.
edit on 14-9-2012 by marker3221 because: (no reason given)


Very true. That's what I've stated throughout. You just happened to look at the one post where I was using a little literary flair for comedic effect.

Yes...Chris Stevens did not single handedly start a civil war.

But he sure did play a big role in making certain it happened.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by LiberLegit
 



So you think that in this ambassador's mind he was fighting for the liberation of Libya because he wanted America to get its hand on their oil reserves along with other countries? You must have been really close with him.

You don't think these radical Muslims who express anger over a stupid video deserve death? Enough anger to kill four other men? They are excused for their lack of tolerance for free speech in OTHER COUNTRIES? Come on. I'm tired of bowing down to Islam. I want pictures of Muhammad painted like a clown on the highest perch for all of them to see. They need to learn others don't think the way they do and they need to learn it NOW. Every other religion has faced persecution, and the reason Islam isn't poked in the same way is because we are afraid of their violent regressions.


1) I'm not pretending to know what was in the ambassadors mind.

2) I don't believe anyone deserves death, I never said that either. But if people play a dangerous game where death is a possible outcome they must accept it if or when it happens.

So let's persecute Muslim's because they haven't been persecuted yet? Your logic is flawed.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by Juggernog
 


How do you get CIA from Diplomat, Peace Corps, Attorney? LMAO



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