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Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

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posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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as masons we do not worship satan or lucifier. we promote loving GOD AND YOUR FELLOW BROTHERS, (GODS CHILDREN). There is no such thing as not being a high enough level. Each brother in my lodge is an upright man and mason and im proud and honored to there brother! They are men that have honor, keep thier word, and show care and compassion for there fellow man.




posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Ahh but you high level Mason's debunk this one....


When you reach a certain level you are allowed to drive around in little cars wearing fezs during parades!

That's when the fun stuff starts LOL



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by SUBKONCIOUS
To say true high ranking masons do not have a secret belief system that is based on the "Luciferian Concept" would be flat out disinformation... are you willing to make such a bold statement?


Yes, for two reasons, both of them are the same. Neither 'high-level' Masons nor Lucifer exist. One is used to scare conspiracy theorsists and the other Christians.


“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy.”

‘Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ page 48, Manley P Hall 33rd degree.\
quotes.liberty-tree.ca...

way to shoot yourself in the foot there... I think you just lost a couple credential points... and to say Lucifer doesn't exist (in the masonic context) is like saying eternal knowledge does not exist... and i don't think your quite in position to make that claim.. just sayin....


Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by SUBKONCIOUS
 

I am willing to make such a bold statement.

Why do non-Masons presume to tell us so much about our own Fraternity? Particularly, I love how "I'm not high enough", but yet you guys say you know what I don't as non-members. Do you see the hypocrisy and the arrogance?


I don't see the hypocrisy or arrogance... but I do see a lot of irony.. in that you are so unaware about the actual roots of the organization that you claim to be involved with...

If your "Lodge" has no intention of presenting to you the dogmatic aspect of true masonry.. than you are basically kicking rocks...

This thread should be re-named to "Why mainstream masons do not worship Lucifer of Satan."

..and maybe I will create a follow up thread.. called...
"Why mainstream masonry is basically just boy-scouts for pseudo-intellectual grownups"



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by SUBKONCIOUS

“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy.”

‘Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ page 48, Manley P Hall 33rd degree.
quotes.liberty-tree.ca...

way to shoot yourself in the foot there... I think you just lost a couple credential points... and to say Lucifer doesn't exist (in the masonic context) is like saying eternal knowledge does not exist... and i don't think your quite in position to make that claim.. just sayin....




That quote is taken out of context leaving what is important about the message behind, expressly with the purpose of promoting the whole "Lucifer" claim.

The full passage is as follows:


The day has come when Fellow Craftsmen must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion, which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare. Incessant vigilance over thought, action, and desire is indispensable to those who wish to make progress in the unfolding of their own being, and the Fellow Craft's degree is the degree of transmutation. The hand that slays must lift the fallen, while the lips given to cursing must be taught to pray. The heart that hates must learn the mystery of compassion, as the result of a deeper and more perfect understanding of man's relation to his brother. The firm, kind hand of spirit must curb the flaming powers of emotion with an iron grip. In the realization and application of these principles lies the key of the Fellow Craft.



In other words this quote is saying that once he has mastered his emotions and can be trusted to apply the inner strength he has gained from doing so, he will have obtained great power (inner strength) and he must go forth an apply it wisely keeping non-constructive actions such as lashing out in anger in check and building up more constructive and positive reactions.


To the Mason's that are watching I hope I explained this appropriately
edit on 9/14/12 by Pixiefyre because: (no reason given)
edit on 9/14/12 by Pixiefyre because: For some reason my link wont' take properly but the document can be found doing a google search for The lost keys of Freemasonry. It can be quickviewed or downloaded in pdf format



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by Pixiefyre
 


Wow even I know that once you achieve Master Mason you are free to apply to other appendages such as the Shriners - who used to require a person had to complete either the Scottish Rite or York Rite degrees of Masonry




Despite its theme, the Shrine is not connected to Islam. It is a men's fraternity rather than a religion or religious group. Its only religious requirement is indirect: all Shriners must be Masons, and petitioners to Freemasonry must profess a belief in a Supreme Being. To further minimize confusion with religion, the use of the word "Temple" to describe Shriners' buildings has been replaced by "Shrine Center", although individual local chapters are still called "Temples".


edit on 14-9-2012 by BrianG because: missed a few words



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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There is no concept of a fallen angel who challenges God in Jewish mythology, it is anethema to their religion.

I never said that there was such a concept. Again, you are putting words in my mouth. You are describing the Christianized version of what was originally a Jewish theological concept. The early Christians were all Jewish, and adopted the Jewish concept of Satan and then modified it to their choosing.



Really? Which ones?

Well, Rashi, for one. Rashi was one of the greatest Jewish Sages that ever lived. Regarding Jacob's wrestling with Satan, the Sages believed this:

"This confrontation (Genesis 32; 25-33) was an epic event in Jewish history. The Rabbis explained that this "man" (i.e., the one that wrestled with Jacob in this passage) was the guardian angel of Esau (per the Jewish Sage, Rashi), in a human guise. The Sages teach that every nation has a guardian angel that guides its destination as an "intermediary" between it and G-d. Two nations, however, are unique: Israel is G-d's own people and just as Esau epitomizes evil, so his angel is the prime spiritual force of evil - SATAN himself. Thus, this battle was the eternal struggle between good and evil, between man's capacity to perfect himself and SATAN'S determination to destroy him spiritually." (p. 54, the Stone Edition of the Tanach).

So, yes, here we see a biblical example of Jacob wrestling with a sentient human being, Satan himself in the guise of a human being.



Getting the picture yet? I can link sources all day that prove the point the Jews NEVER had the same concept of Christians regarding a fallen angel who challenges God.

I never once stated that the Jewish and Christianized version of Satan were similar. You did, not me. I simply stated that the concept of Satan is Jewish in origin, and that the Christians adopted and modified the concept at a later date.



If you take the tact that Satan challenges God then he has free will which in the Jewish religion was never ascribe to angels, only man had free will.


Again, I never stated this.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by BrianG
 



I thought that might lighten things up a bit. My family has been involved in the Freemasons and Eastern Stars for generations, and I have to tell you as I see these threads pop up claiming they followed Lucifer and worshiped the devil and such I just have to laugh.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify.



Very clever.

But, masons do not worship.

Freemasonry requires a "belief" in a supreme being, but doesn't require you to "worship" that supreme being.

Satan believes in the existence of a supreme being, he just doesn't worship him.

Freemasons only worship themselves. There's a "Worshipful Master", and a "Grand Master", and things like "Supreme Commander" etc..these are the idols of Freemasonry.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by Pixiefyre
 

A group I'll probably never join, but I know several Brothers who are Shriners.

reply to post by SUBKONCIOUS
 

That is the opinion of Manly P Hall, not everyone in the entire Fraternity. Nor are you using that quote in the full context or to the meaning that he intended.

If you don't see the hypocrisy and arrogance, then you are blind. How can non-members presume to tell actual members about their own group? Do you presume we "low levels" are so stupid that we can't research our own group?


Originally posted by GreatOwl
Freemasons only worship themselves. There's a "Worshipful Master", and a "Grand Master", and things like "Supreme Commander" etc..these are the idols of Freemasonry.

[BUZZER] Oh, thanks for playing, but you got this wrong. There is no worshiping of these people. Maybe you should do some research before you open your mouth next time.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason



In some areas, one can still be put to death for being a Mason.


And ATS is not one of those places, lmfao.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by MrTheOutspoken


I make a very clear statement that all freemasons are NOT evil and corrupt.


They will not listen when you speak with common sense, by their nature they lack the ability altogether.

This thread and its authors thought looping is boring me.
edit on 15-9-2012 by shamanix2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify.



Very clever.

But, masons do not worship.

Freemasonry requires a "belief" in a supreme being, but doesn't require you to "worship" that supreme being.

Satan believes in the existence of a supreme being, he just doesn't worship him.

Freemasons only worship themselves. There's a "Worshipful Master", and a "Grand Master", and things like "Supreme Commander" etc..these are the idols of Freemasonry.



Wait, what? Satan believes in the Father of creation? Satan is a mortal? WTF
So confusing to say the least



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by shamanix2012
I bring it up because I experienced it first hand, and there is a possibility that SOME masons do worship Lucifer, Satan, ( the name doesn't matter, their actions do ). I wasn't trying to offend you, just putting another perspective here.


What perspective is that? I have NEVER heard of masons doing ANYTHING like what you previously described.

That sounds like the "made up" actions of a maniacal family - not Freemasonry.

As a Freemason myself, I do sit back and laugh at a lot of what crap is spouted here. Satan worship? Sacrifices? Brilliant. Just brilliant. Hollywood tell you to "jump" and you take a running leap, screaming out the _



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by shamanix2012
 


Not at all. You have some strange belief that Masons are up to no good, we tell you otherwise, you refuse to believe and maintain your own incorrect assumptions.

Fair enough. If it helps you to believe in the occult (made up) and supernatural beings (also made up) then go for it.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by shamanix2012
 


Not at all. You have some strange belief that Masons are up to no good, we tell you otherwise, you refuse to believe and maintain your own incorrect assumptions.

Fair enough. If it helps you to believe in the occult (made up) and supernatural beings (also made up) then go for it.


Occult simply means hidden knowledge and in a modern context may be misinterprted.
For example, gravitas: does putting a formula behind it make it an earthly truth?
We simply label everything, especially things we don't understand/.
edit on 15-9-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify.



Very clever.

But, masons do not worship.

Freemasonry requires a "belief" in a supreme being, but doesn't require you to "worship" that supreme being.

Satan believes in the existence of a supreme being, he just doesn't worship him.

Freemasons only worship themselves. There's a "Worshipful Master", and a "Grand Master", and things like "Supreme Commander" etc..these are the idols of Freemasonry.



So each mason is free to practice his own religion, but you know for sure that they all change religions once joined and start jumping on the Satan bandwagon. This super secret information that only the high up 33rds know, you somehow know as well. I think you are an incarnation of Satan. That is the only way you could know this. BE GONE SATAN! SERPENT OF HELL! DEMON SPAWN!



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by SUBKONCIOUS
“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy.”

‘Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ page 48, Manley P Hall 33rd degree.\
quotes.liberty-tree.ca...

way to shoot yourself in the foot there... I think you just lost a couple credential points...


Hey genius, did you bother to notice that Hall wrote that more than 30 years before he became a Mason? Thought not....



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Tell that to Alistair Crowley



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09
I never said that there was such a concept. Again, you are putting words in my mouth. You are describing the Christianized version of what was originally a Jewish theological concept. The early Christians were all Jewish, and adopted the Jewish concept of Satan and then modified it to their choosing.


Again, this is exactly my point. The Hebrews had ha-satan in thier Bible ('the accuser', small 'a') who was not a Supreme Being and the Christians had the myth of Satan, ruler of hell and challenger of God, also not Supreme. Any way you present it ha-satan or Satan are not worthy of worship as they are not and never will be Supreme.


Well, Rashi, for one. Rashi was one of the greatest Jewish Sages that ever lived. Regarding Jacob's wrestling with Satan, the Sages believed this:

"This confrontation (Genesis 32; 25-33) was an epic event in Jewish history. The Rabbis explained that this "man" (i.e., the one that wrestled with Jacob in this passage) was the guardian angel of Esau (per the Jewish Sage, Rashi), in a human guise. The Sages teach that every nation has a guardian angel that guides its destination as an "intermediary" between it and G-d. Two nations, however, are unique: Israel is G-d's own people and just as Esau epitomizes evil, so his angel is the prime spiritual force of evil - SATAN himself. Thus, this battle was the eternal struggle between good and evil, between man's capacity to perfect himself and SATAN'S determination to destroy him spiritually." (p. 54, the Stone Edition of the Tanach).

So, yes, here we see a biblical example of Jacob wrestling with a sentient human being, Satan himself in the guise of a human being.


And later Rashi says this:


Zechariah - Chapter 3

Chapter 3
1. And He showed me Joshua, the High Priest, standing before the angel of the Lord. And Satan was standing on his right, to accuse him. א.

Rashi-to accuse him: To accuse him because his sons were married to gentile women, as it is written in the Book of Ezra (10:18): “And it was found of the sons of the priests who had taken foreign wives, of the sons of Jeshua the son of Jozadak, etc.”


Clearly showing that Rashi understood that ha-satan was a minion of God, not a challenger.


I never once stated that the Jewish and Christianized version of Satan were similar. You did, not me. I simply stated that the concept of Satan is Jewish in origin, and that the Christians adopted and modified the concept at a later date.


The concept is much more than modified, it is wholly different. From a servant of God to a challenger of God. Both are not divine.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by CookieMonster09

Well, Rashi, for one. Rashi was one of the greatest Jewish Sages that ever lived. Regarding Jacob's wrestling with Satan, the Sages believed this:

"This confrontation (Genesis 32; 25-33) was an epic event in Jewish history. The Rabbis explained that this "man" (i.e., the one that wrestled with Jacob in this passage) was the guardian angel of Esau (per the Jewish Sage, Rashi), in a human guise. The Sages teach that every nation has a guardian angel that guides its destination as an "intermediary" between it and G-d. Two nations, however, are unique: Israel is G-d's own people and just as Esau epitomizes evil, so his angel is the prime spiritual force of evil - SATAN himself. Thus, this battle was the eternal struggle between good and evil, between man's capacity to perfect himself and SATAN'S determination to destroy him spiritually." (p. 54, the Stone Edition of the Tanach).

So, yes, here we see a biblical example of Jacob wrestling with a sentient human being, Satan himself in the guise of a human being.



These Jewish sages were not real good with the scholarly stuff then, were they?


And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. (Genesis 32:24, ASV)


So, moving on to verses 25, 26, 27:

Jacob was winning, but with one touch, his opponent causes him to become lame. Then he asks for Jacob's name:


And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed. (Genesis 32:28, ASV)



And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. (Genesis 32:29, ASV)



And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (Genesis 32:30, ASV)


So, not only does Jacob confirm he wrestled with his own God, not Satan, but if we look at Genesis 35:10, what do we see?


And God said to him, “Your name is Jacob; no longer shall your name be called Jacob, but Israel shall be your name.” So he called his name Israel.


His own God, not Satan.
edit on 15-9-2012 by CodyOutlaw because: (no reason given)





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