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Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

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posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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intrptr
[
As if that wash't ill mannered. By the way, I learned in "church" that the answers aren't there. I learned that as a kid. Whats your excuse?


Ironically I learned more about the Bible in Freemasonry than I did in Sunday School. Because it plays such a large role in various rituals I became interested and started reading it...something I was never interested in pre-freemasonry.




posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 




In my loge we support a hospice, not only with charity-money (which is donated anonymously) but with regular visits. Its part of masonic life to care for those less fortunate. And its part of Christian life too. It should be part of anyones life on earth, as far as I`m concerned.


I stand corrected about masons not helping less fortunate. My apologies. Thats a human thing to do by the way, not just "religious".

In other words its the human thing to do, not just "Christian". Plenty of people help others who aren't affiliated with any religious faith or belief system.

Mans inhumanity to man is what plagues the world today. And some of that is surely done in the name of their god. Others will say, I don't harm anyone. I find that hard to quantify since they pay taxes which certain portions of go directly towards building weapons that are used against humans around the world. How humane is that?

One hand doesn't know what the other is doing…



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by intrptr
 

Who says he's willing to kill anyone? Last I checked Freemasonry taught against zealotry and extremism.

reply to post by intrptr
 

You sound like a douchy goth kid.

reply to post by intrptr
 

As a point for clarification, Freemasonry is not a church or a religion. Symbols and rites don't make a religion.


Symbols and rites known only to the practitioners are simply a way to feel superior. To look down on others who don't practice with you, to see them as "less than" yourself.

Actually symbols are a method of communication. Everyone uses symbols in some way and everyone has some kind of rite so please spare us your empty rhetoric.


Secret rites and symbols are the Masons way of feeling above everyone else not of the order.

Not really, but thanks for trying.

Our rituals are not a superiority complex.


Let me know what you find atop that lonely pinnacle.

I find it funny that anti-Masons push for mediocrity. They mock those who excel in life or in their organizations such as Freemasonry. This is something I've noticed with them all. They demonize people who excel by saying that only bad or psychopaths that can climb the ladders and become leaders. It's pathetically hilarious.


It will be the devil saying good, you have bowed down to me, now the world is yours.

And you know this how?


Enjoy your silly little boys club…

I do, every minute of it.

reply to post by intrptr
 

Not just in regards to Masonry, but to all things in life, you shouldn't make an opinions based on conjecture and assumptions.

Lodges do a variety of charities as with the Blue Lodge there is no one charity. Freemasonry is about charity.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 05:09 PM
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Far too much confusion around here, due basically to the failure to recognize that there are two definitions of Lucifer: a Christian definition and a Theosophical definition.

The traditional Christian concept and definition of the term “Lucifer” is merely one definition amongst many definitions and interpretations of what is essentially a pre-Christian term.

The traditional Christian concept is also simply bad doctrine. The term “Lucifer” only appears once in the bible, Isaiah 14:

“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”

Context makes it plain that the term is applied specifically to the King of Babylon, yet from this one verse stems the entire erroneous Christian doctrine on Lucifer being Satan.


The traditional Theosophical concept and definition of the term “Lucifer” is that of an angel of light: the 'light-bearer' who came to bring knowledge to man.




“According to Gnostic legends and myths, the great Unknowable God sent Lucifer, angel of indescribable fire and light, to show man the light and to help him wake up and see his true origin, the origin of his Spirit, which has been perversely imprisoned in this impure matter called body-soul. He is an uncreated being, who came to the created world to bring Light: Liberating Gnosis. The saving knowledge which can wake man up and help him free his imprisoned Spirit. The knowledge which allows him to know who he truly is, why he is here in this world and what he has to do to liberate himself and fulfil his Spirit, which belongs to another uncreated and unknowable plane.

We have said that Lucifer came to the world to wake man up, to help him remember his divine origin, the divine origin of his Spirit, and to help him free himself from the body-soul in which he is trapped, and from created time and matter.”

Jose M. Herrou Aragon, “Primordial Gnosis: The Forbidden Religion "


As you can see, a great Unknowable God sent Lucifer, angel of light, to show man the light.




“It is but natural to view Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he who was the “Harbinger of Light,” bright radiant Lucifer, who opened the eyes of the automaton created by Jehovah, as alleged; and he who was the first to whisper: “in the day ye eat thereof ye shall be as Elohim, knowing good and evil” – can only be regarded in the light of a Saviour."

Madame Blavatsky



The OP is therefore correct when he denies that Masons worship Lucifer. They worship a great Unknowable God who sent Lucifer, angel of light, to show man the light.

According to Blavatsky, the Light-bringer or Bringer of Dawn (Lucifer in Latin) is our individual self-consciousness and mind principle. Our mind can either be our adversary (literally 'satan') or it can be the light-bearer (the Lucifer) of spiritual Truth to us.

I see all this as nothing more, nothing less than a question of semantics. A thread going nowhere, on that basis alone.


If we are going to have another of these threads, could we maybe address things that might interest everyone? Here are a few points I think it would be interesting for the OP to address, instead of pontificating on issues of semantics:

- the Kabbalah, basis of the doctrine of the Masons
- the Kabbalah, mixture of secret doctrines of Babylon and Egypt
- the purpose of Freemasonry, symbolic rebuilding of the Temple of Solomon
- the secret purpose, destruction of the Christian Church and all Christian States

Then it would at least tie-in with current world events, and allow us to discuss the juicy stuff, like magic, demonology, the evocation of spirits, sorcery, spiritualism, and all sorts of other sordid excitement.
edit on 31-3-2014 by D377MC because: spelling, punctuation, edit to add.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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D377MC
The OP is therefore correct when he denies that Masons worship Lucifer. They worship a great Unknowable God who sent Lucifer, angel of light, to show man the light.


Thank you for your participation. Glad to see someone actually understands the premise as outlined.


I see all this as nothing more, nothing less than a question of semantics. Boring.


Sorry you found it boring, at the time I authored this I felt it needed to be discussed due to the amount of, 'You worship the Devil/Lucifer/Satan!', cries that were thrown about. It has diminished somewhat but still happens all too frequently.


If we are going to have another of these threads, could we maybe address things that might interest everyone?
Here are a few points I think it would be interesting for the OP to address, instead of pontificating on issues of semantics:

- the Kabbalah, basis of the doctrine of the Masons
- the Kabbalah, mixture of secret doctrines of Babylon and Egypt
- the purpose of Freemasonry, symbolic rebuilding of the Temple of Solomon
- the secret purpose, destruction of the Christian Church and all Christian States

Then it would at least tie-in with current world events, and allow us to discuss the juicy stuff, like magic, demonology, the evocation of spirits, sorcery, spiritualism, and all sorts of other sordid excitement.


I would say start any one of those and you would get a good number of participants based on past activity or knowledge in those topics.



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 





Sorry you found it boring, at the time I authored this I felt it needed to be discussed due to the amount of, 'You worship the Devil/Lucifer/Satan!', cries that were thrown about. It has diminished somewhat but still happens all too frequently.


Ninety percent of which is due to a single truncated quote of Albert Pike taken out of context. I love the internet, but sometimes I swear its usage should be awarded on merit...



posted on Mar, 31 2014 @ 05:28 PM
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D377MC
Ninety percent of which is due to a single truncated quote of Albert Pike taken out of context. I love the internet, but sometimes I swear its usage should be awarded on merit...


Agreed. Out of context quotes is pretty much the crux of the Original Post and it does not seem that most of the posters arguing against it even cared. It always struck me as being very disingenuous.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 09:52 AM
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intrptr
reply to post by Skyfloating
 




In my loge we support a hospice, not only with charity-money (which is donated anonymously) but with regular visits. Its part of masonic life to care for those less fortunate. And its part of Christian life too. It should be part of anyones life on earth, as far as I`m concerned.


I stand corrected about masons not helping less fortunate. My apologies. Thats a human thing to do by the way, not just "religious".

In other words its the human thing to do, not just "Christian". Plenty of people help others who aren't affiliated with any religious faith or belief system.

Mans inhumanity to man is what plagues the world today. And some of that is surely done in the name of their god. Others will say, I don't harm anyone. I find that hard to quantify since they pay taxes which certain portions of go directly towards building weapons that are used against humans around the world. How humane is that?

One hand doesn't know what the other is doing…





How is it that you have so much hatred for a group you admittedly, do not understand?
Charity is the foundation of masonry.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 



How is it that you have so much hatred for a group you admittedly, do not understand?

I don't hate religion, I despise it. Do you realize how many people have been misled and fear for their souls if they don't keep going to (insert whatever religion name and building type here)? Billions is my guess. Brainwashed, Indoctinated, dogmatized, misled.

Plato's cave comes to mind. I despise the controllers that keep people chained in an information vacuum "cave". It doesn't matter whether its a political, sports, education, military, religion, Television, media or self made warm and cosy belief system "cave" its still all shadows dancing on the wall.

Thats how I understand your need to call people that don't believe the way you do "haters" by the way. Oh, and…


Charity is the foundation of masonry.

Another Icon? Churches and "charities", yes. All churches and members love to pay lip service to charity. They even give a little to some organization. Pass me the plate please, I'm going to hurl.

A few bucks, out of the overload most church goers have. First we need some new sprinklers and an air conditioner. Then theres some starving kids in Sudan. They'll get the rest… lol. You know who was hit worst by Bernie Maddof? Charities. It was discovered charities only usually pay out 5% of their "income" to actual needy people. The rest is invested, Bernie "made off" with a lot of charity capitol from greedy corporate charity organizations. I guess they got theres. I don't have the link, you can verify.

Tossing a few dollars "towards" charity is the minimum action one can take to actually help others. Like voting, it only requires a simple toss of the wrist. Maybe masons don''t pass the plate, maybe they help more or less, its still a minimal contribution to a world of suffering. Still paying that tax, too?

I said I was done, and I apologized for insulting Masons because I was caught in a weak moment. This is what I really think about it, though. Not Masons in particular, rather, all organized religions.

Make sure you get that distinction…

And remember, I don't hate you. I am trying to wake you up. I have returned to Plato's Cave and I am trying to pull you into the light of day. The cave fire light is not real daylight… you live in a cave, you can't see anything down there.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by intrptr
 


You just helped prove my point, Freemasonry is not a religion. It's a fraternity.
We don't offer salvation, we don't worship.

I'd be happy to explain what we are and what we do.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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intrptr
I said I was done, and I apologized for insulting Masons because I was caught in a weak moment. This is what I really think about it, though. Not Masons in particular, rather, all organized religions.

Make sure you get that distinction…


I think the distinction you need to get is that Masonry is not a religion, it is a charitable fraternal organization. I do not go to lodge so I can participate in religious services, I go there so I can help others.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by intrptr
 


There are two types of charity. The first, involves making a big production of the "gift" you are giving. A giant check, a news briefing, lots of folks cheering.

The second type is when a family is in need of some assistance after their hose burned down and a collection is given and someone slips a few $100 bills into the plate. The whole it counted up and quietly given to the family in an anonymous fashion. Nobody looks for a tax form, nobody waits for praise, they just go about their lives and keep a look out for someone else who might need a little help.

I'll let you guess what kind masonry does.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 12:08 PM
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intrptr
I am trying to wake you up. I have returned to Plato's Cave and I am trying to pull you into the light of day. The cave fire light is not real daylight… you live in a cave, you can't see anything down there.


You're trying to wake people up by pulling them to the light? Sounds pretty religious to me.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by intrptr
 

Despise = hatred.

You're looking at just the negativity. I agree there have been bad things done in the name of religion, but those things were done by corrupted men and would have used anything to justify their actions: religions was just a convenient means.

Again, Freemasonry is not a religion and it teaches for moderation/temperance, prudence, justice, charity, and so on. In essence, Freemasonry is the anti-thesis of blind zealotry and extremism.

Freemasonry doesn't pay lip service to charity and your smug behavior doesn't help your cause. You see religious people as misguided and ignorant people while you are above that, "outside the box", and have a feeling of superiority...and your hubris is sickenly noticeable in your writing. So please spare us your tripe.

In a free society, should people not be allowed to give their money where they wish?


It was discovered charities only usually pay out 5% of their "income" to actual needy people.

Well Freemasonry has a far better record than that percentage than that which you used. I know for sure the major charities in Masonry were not effected by the financial scandals of the last several years.


I don't have the link, you can verify.

Well, you making the statement should supply the link or evidence.


Maybe masons don''t pass the plate, maybe they help more or less, its still a minimal contribution to a world of suffering.

And yet it's more than you have done it seems. Unless whining on a forum is now somehow a means to bring peace globally and solve all the world's problems.


Not Masons in particular, rather, all organized religions.

Well Masonry is not a organized religion.


I am trying to wake you up.

Who says we need to be woken up? Who says we're not already awake?


I have returned to Plato's Cave and I am trying to pull you into the light of day. The cave fire light is not real daylight… you live in a cave, you can't see anything down there.




posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Off topic here....
BUT... doesn't it say in the bible... that God/Lord "Despises A Coward"...???
In the end of the book of revelation.

Do masons despise cowans...???


What do you call someone who swears they know masonry better than the masons, but is not a mason...?

Is it "amason"... lol... get it...??? Amason/amazin.
edit on 1-4-2014 by Pinocchio because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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Pinocchio


Is it "amason"... lol... get it...??? Amason/amazin.


Amazon.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 



You're trying to wake people up by pulling them to the light? Sounds pretty religious to me.

Its an allegory. If you haven't read it, its better to live above ground in the light of day then to live chained underground with only firelight. The Republic of Plato… you guys don't hold that in reverence? Philosphy --love of wisdom, which is a gift, can't be studied or earned (or learned). Sigh… or practiced or ritualized.

I knew that posting again would be like poking a hornets nest. Let me give another example. On ESPN, the only subject they talk about is sports. They discuss sports, players, stats, their pick in the big game.

The only questions that arise are about sports, and the only answers can be (wait for it)… about sports.

I don't care if they call their coliseum a "park" or a "field" its really the same thing. Its where they meet.

But at least they are honest. You don't hear them say their sport "isn't a sport".

By the way, In early adult hood my dad was a Mason. His dad was a Mason. A guy I knew who passed away was both a Mason and a Shriner. I wound up with some of his stuff when it was thrown away after he passed on including his ring, booklets, pictures. I even have some artifacts, I think. One day I'll dig them out of the garage and return them to the town where they came from.

Some of you keep accusing me of being "religious" and I already said I don't attend church or profess any religion. I don't belong to any clubs either. I've tried them all, thank you very much. If I quote passages from the Bible its because I happen to agree with them. Mostly from Jesus' teachings and prophecy like Revelations. I interpret them when I feel moved. The modern church has misunderstood them.

I prefer to think of waiting on the spirit than studying it. Words are semantic anyway.

Spirituality can't really be put accurately into words, the spirit has little to do with language and rote.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by Pinocchio
 



What do you call someone who swears they know masonry better than the masons, but is not a mason…?


You flatter me. I didn't know masons called people names? Anyway, how can anyone know masonry "better than the masons"? Its practiced in secret.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 



Despise = hatred.

Here we go with the semantics again. You're right, bad choice of worlds. Let me "word it" differently. Does "righteously indignant" work better for you? Thats like anger without hatred. Like I am angered at the direction my countries government and military have taken. I may think they are crazy, and I may want them to stop what they are doing, but I don't hate (like they do).

Hate is just plain hate. It has no reason. Which one of your member has accused me of…

What is it up to, 5, 6 to one?

Lots of luck with your "not religion" you all. You can insult me and star each other for pages. I think I'll stop giving you grist for the mill. Its useless to discuss the spirit with people who practice rituals anyway.



posted on Apr, 1 2014 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by intrptr
 

It seems you don't have that gift either.


But at least they are honest. You don't hear them say their sport "isn't a sport".

Well Freemasonry isn't a religion because we don't meet the requirements to be considered a religion.

reply to post by intrptr
 

Still seems like hatred.

Freemasonry is a fraternal order, not a religion. If you think we're a religion though please explain.





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