Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

CharlieSpeirs
I think you misunderstood me when I said higher power, I was referring to the creator, not angels or superior tech aliens, which may describe them in layman's terms, but doesn't necessarily define them properly, as they are not necessarily a higher power, just more knowledgable/advanced, but no more important.

Understood, but on this forum the words need to be clarified as 'higher power' is constantly misconstrued as being synonymous with God.

By Satanist I pretty much mean that those who believe that Satan has created this Universe as it stands today, as in the Great Architect of its current design and how it is run.

That does not fit in with the contemporary views of Satanists. Levayan Satanists believe in exalting the self with theistic Satanist who believe in the historical Satan understand he was created by God by choose to recognize his rebelliousness as a quality worthy of adoration.

Although my original point stand in the sense that is what they believe, many interviews with Satanists they will proclaim he is a master in design and creation(ie a Great Architect, even if only in their eyes) whether you and I disagree with them or not, so when asked do they believe in a Supreme Being, they would agree, but wouldn't have to divulge who it is. If you get what I am saying.

He may be, in there eyes, a master of creation or design but Masonry specifically asks if you believe in a Supreme Being so the qualifier is quite clear.

As I said previously I don't think it's prevalent, and I actually think the Masonic way of life is a very noble one.
Was actually thinking about attempting to join, if the brotherhood would have me, and I haven't ruled it out completely.

Head down to a local lodge or two and meet some of the members and determine if it is a good fit with your life and what you wish to put in to the organization.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Yes I fully understand the need to explain as you say it is so often misconstrued it seems to have lost meaning.

Yes again I probably should have explained Satanist better with so many different interpretations and sects within who bring their own meaning a la LeVayan.
I'm not sure what they go by to be honest, the main interview i remember seeing I cannot recollect the mans name, i will have a look for the link and you can decide for yourself but you will probably notice what I was saying by the way he talks about Satan, and how the Satanic circle he was/is involved in feels about Satan.
Edit: m.youtube.com...
It's an excerpt from The Arrivals you may have seen, the title itself can be ignored it's a bit fear mongering to assume "our leaders" do this, but that's another topic anywho.

I completely agree that the idea of Satan qualifying as supreme is completely void of all logic, but like I say, if in their eyes he is their "God" does that create an unwanted loophole seeing as they don't have to say who it is they believe in.
As I'm not aware of initiation, do they, and only if you can share this info I agree the secrecy is paramount, do they have to divulge during initiation to a Grand Master, and then it becomes a personal/private thing thereafter.
If that is the case then the "loophole" is not available.

I would love to visit, it would be a wonderful experience no doubt.
But like you said it's about what you can bring to the table, & although when I first had the thoughts to go for it, I was raring to go to be honest, but a few things happened over the past 2 years, and these few personal problems had me in doubt which lead me to wonder what I could offer at this time.
It'll always be something I will come back to once things pick up though.

Peace.

CharlieSpeirs
Yes again I probably should have explained Satanist better with so many different interpretations and sects within who bring their own meaning a la LeVayan.

No worries.

I'm not sure what they go by to be honest, the main interview i remember seeing I cannot recollect the mans name, i will have a look for the link and you can decide for yourself but you will probably notice what I was saying by the way he talks about Satan, and how the Satanic circle he was/is involved in feels about Satan.
Edit: m.youtube.com...
It's an excerpt from The Arrivals you may have seen, the title itself can be ignored it's a bit fear mongering to assume "our leaders" do this, but that's another topic anywho.

I will take a look and post my opinion.

I completely agree that the idea of Satan qualifying as supreme is completely void of all logic, but like I say, if in their eyes he is their "God" does that create an unwanted loophole seeing as they don't have to say who it is they believe in.
As I'm not aware of initiation, do they, and only if you can share this info I agree the secrecy is paramount, do they have to divulge during initiation to a Grand Master, and then it becomes a personal/private thing thereafter.
If that is the case then the "loophole" is not available.

I believe you mean the Worshipful Master (presiding officer in the lodge who typically handles the degrees). Actually, in my state (and many others) the petition that a prospective candidate receives has wording that makes it necessary for them to profess belief in a Supreme Being. They then have to reaffirm this belief in lodge during the degrees so if someone were to lie during any portion of this they would be subject to immediate expulsion as is outline in my Original Post.

I would love to visit, it would be a wonderful experience no doubt.
But like you said it's about what you can bring to the table, & although when I first had the thoughts to go for it, I was raring to go to be honest, but a few things happened over the past 2 years, and these few personal problems had me in doubt which lead me to wonder what I could offer at this time.
It'll always be something I will come back to once things pick up though.

Personal setbacks do not have to be a disqualifier. What I was trying to convey is that if you do not attend lodge and participate in its functions you will not get as much out of Masonry as someone who does. If you are able to put some time aside to at least be an occasional member then you should contemplate a visit to your local lodge. If you do not have the time at this point hold off until you are able to more fully commit to being a regular member. Your lodge and you will both benefit from this decision.

reply to post by CharlieSpeirs


Masonry isn't so much about a quid pro quo, it's more about being a part of a whole. What I get out of Masonry exceeds what I put into it. The journey is amazing, though you probably won't see it right away. The imitation, passing and raising is a transformational experience. The part people don't think about is the feeling of being at home at the lodge. I feel peace when I am at a lodge or appendant body. Walking into a lodge room is like coming home.

Well, I was going to comment, but Augustus covered the bases. Charlie, if you have questions, keep asking and talk with Skyfloating as he was a member of this forum first prior to joining the Masons.

KSigMason
....talk with Skyfloating as he was a member of this forum first prior to joining the Masons.

Sauron as well.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Thank you AM, you've opened my eyes even more I appreciate that.
I will bare it all in mind in helping towards a decision.

Peace.

reply to post by ExiledBulldawg


Sounds like an amazing experience all round.
I should have explained better aswell, I didn't mean to sound like Masonry wants something from me, it was more a personal thought of what I could contribute.

Again I fully appreciate the insight you've all given to me.
And I apologise if I somewhat took it off topic.

Peace.

reply to post by KSigMason


Thank you very much KSig. I will keep an eye out for his posts.

Peace.

DEVIL = TYRANT
SATAN = FANATIC
BEAST = IGNORANT...

FATHER = MASTER
SON = APPRENTICE
HOLY SPIRIT = CRAFT...

GOD = G.A.O.T.U....

HOLY GROUND = LANDMARKS...

DIVINITY = HIGHER POWER...

Freemason is free of religion... thus... Lucifer cannot be their deity.
Instead there is/are "Weights & Measures" which kind of ring a tune considered satanic, in the folk lore'ish sense of it.

Do Freemasons do "Homage & Fealty"...?

Pinocchio
DEVIL = TYRANT
SATAN = FANATIC
BEAST = IGNORANT...

FATHER = MASTER
SON = APPRENTICE
HOLY SPIRIT = CRAFT...

GOD = G.A.O.T.U....

HOLY GROUND = LANDMARKS...

DIVINITY = HIGHER POWER...

Freemason is free of religion... thus... Lucifer cannot be their deity.
Instead there is/are "Weights & Measures" which kind of ring a tune considered satanic, in the folk lore'ish sense of it.

Do Freemasons do "Homage & Fealty"...?

reply to post by Pinocchio


What do you mean fealty? All Masons are equal, though some are in leadership roles. There is no swearing of allegiance to any one person. If something repugnant is promulgated under the administration of a WM or GM, the members need not be active. Or if a WM is bad, they can simply move to another lodge. The GM changes each year. This keeps the Craft stagnant and changing at the same time.

Masonry is voluntary, there is absolutely no compulsion, all come of their own volition. We choose to be Masons.

reply to post by ExiledBulldawg


Can I dress A.D.A.M. in Freemasonic regalia... and call the caballa... caballaw.?.
For pity's sake... GM WM MM... pweeeeez

Pinocchio

For pity's sake... GM WM MM... pweeeeez

GM stands for "Grand Master" (In English Masonry, this is His Royal Highness, the Duke of Kent).

WM stands for "Worshipful Master" (The person who is elected annually to rule and govern his Lodge for a period of 1 year).

MM stands for "Master Mason" (Someone who has done their third Degree).

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus



I have traveled from East to West and back again.... and in my travels I know that WE do not worship Lucifer, Satan or any other Pagan gods. I also have read enough "anti-Masonic" threads on here to know that a lot of the context comes from lodges that we would paint as clandestine bodies.

:I

I wanted to repost this comment by my friend Muzzleflash which clearly summarizes a rational person's views on the topic:

Here is something I have been thinking about lately and perhaps I am ready to elaborate on it now.

The problem with the "belief in Satan" theology that the purveyors of it do not realize, is that by the very act of their own misconception, they become the monster they despise.

By saying Satan exists and has all of these incredible powers, they are essentially blaspheming God by suggesting that God isn't the All.
And in a strange way, they are actually putting Satan on the pedestal through this attribution of powers.
This means that they are subconsciously following their Satan ideology without realizing it.

The same folks will say "FEAR God!", yet what do they fear? Satan of course.
It's pretty obvious what's going on.

I will state plainly that I do not Fear God at all, and no Satan type entity has any powers over me.
Only I have power over me and I am responsible for everything I do.

I "Walk With God" as my Big Buddy, figuratively speaking.
Why would I fear my best Friend ever?

By simply asking questions and seeking understanding through logic and rational explanations, almost all of their issues would evaporate. source

wow, I didn't realize I'd be wading through such a cesspool of sewage when I opened up this thread.

The OP and his mason buddies really goto lengths here to bend definitions and logic. I'm glad there were at least 2 stalkers who sliced through the smoke.

The biggest piece of the puzzle, in my opinion, that only one or two really picked up on, is that to join masons you have to ascribe to a supreme being AND that, they define the supreme being as omnipotent and the creator of THE universe (as if there is only one). All I can say is using language to talk about concepts that go beyond creation leads to 60+ pages of mostly garbage...

Maybe the one true god didn't create anything at all...

reply to post by ancientpast

We bent nothing, but please feel free to back it up with evidence of our manipulation.

That is your opinion of what a supreme being(s) is and you are entitled to your beliefs, it doesn't mean anyone else has to accept them.

ancientpast
The biggest piece of the puzzle, in my opinion, that only one or two really picked up on, is that to join masons you have to ascribe to a supreme being AND that, they define the supreme being as omnipotent and the creator of THE universe (as if there is only one).

It would appear that you are the one twisting language at this point. If you actually read through the entire 60 pages of 'garbage' you should be able to quote where any of us said that you needed to believe that God created anything. The stipulation is belief in a Supreme Being, nothing more.

I also noticed that you did not, or were not able to, address the Original Post.