Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

reply to post by PrplHrt


Aww, so sorry you cannot handle more than one opinion. Man up, it's a forum. Should we cry like little girls when more than one nutter comes in here whining about how evil we are? Deal with it sally.

reply to post by network dude

Right away you get personal. Perhaps, instead of gang, you would prefer cult.

I'm flexible. Both are applicable.

ETA - How seriously can I take a person who has a cartoon mask for an avatar?

reply to post by KSigMason

To expound, I ate very well the last few days. Thursday obviously was Thanksgiving, but yesterday I ate at this local Basque restaurant and I was in a sort of food coma most of the evening.

reply to post by PrplHrt

What nonsense.

Originally posted by PrplHrt
Lucifer likes to cover his lap too.

Please expound and tie to it how it is related to Freemasonry. Also I'm waiting from the anti-Masons where in our rituals it says we worship or side with Satan or the Devil or demons or blah blah blah blah. I have asked and have never seen any ritualistic proof of any of your accusations.

reply to post by PrplHrt

I do love how people just throw "occult" around.

You guys are like the Church. You deny your heart is pagan. Altars, mock murders, knock, knock, who's there?

Masonic Lodges are said to be representations of King Solomon's Temple where our legends come from. We function in no way like a church nor is that our mission. Freemasonry is not a religion. Nor do our rituals and ceremonies make us a church, but rather exist to impart lessons to the initiate.

We may not know your secrets but we're not unaware of the esoteric aspects of your religion.

Now I'm not saying there isn't esoteric aspects, but what you think of them and what they are may be different. What's wrong with the esoteric aspects of Freemasonry?

I'll repeat, Freemasonry isn't a religion because we don't meet the basic requirements of one. Religions do the following:

Practice sacerdotal functions - Masonry does NOT!
Teach Theology - Masonry does NOT!
Ordain Clergy - Masonry does NOT!
Define sin and salvation - Masonry does NOT!
Perform sacraments - Masonry does NOT!
Publish or specify a Holy Book - Masonry does NOT!
Describe or define the Deity - Masonry does NOT!

I won't stand in the way of education. I'm a big fan, but at least tell the truth about who stands at the podium.

Well, your obfuscating the truth.

reply to post by PrplHrt

There is no ritual murder in Freemasonry. You are trying to twist our rituals into something that it is not. The Hiramic legend told during 3° is about integrity, about piety, and living a good life. I wish my Masonic Brethren would join at least the Royal Arch and Cryptic Masons because they really complete the story of Craft Masonry, and my favorite part is during the soliloquy of Royal Master degree.

Don't you think that's just the slightest bit strange?

When you actually know what it is about, nope, not one bit.

It has to do with who runs the planet. Rex Mundi? Remember? Washington laid out like a Mason's wet dream. The alchemical symbol for gold a couple of blocks from Ye Olde Whyte House.

And who runs the planet? Please enlighten us.

Where exactly is this symbol and who cares?

Y'all are fooling NO ONE.

Paranoid are we?

reply to post by PrplHrt

We don't operate in shadows. Our buildings are well lit, but regardless, are you afraid of the dark? Are we not allowed to meet in private? Are we slaves now? Do we not have the right to assemble?

There's nothing negative about our rituals, but I fail to see how this makes us Devil worshipers like this thread is supposed to be about.

The windows of your lodges are kept perpetually covered.

Not all Lodges. One of my Lodges has its windows open and this last year we did an outdoor degree on top of a mountain.

Why do you hide? Because what you do can't be seen by the masses.

It's not hiding, we're just meeting privately which there is nothing wrong with that. Our "secrecy" stems from our history and the tyrannical treatment of free thinkers back in the day. Today we meet in private and we have that right.

Worshiping Lucifer can't be done in the open. It has to be done behind closed doors with the shades drawn and cloaked in ritual to protect the "faithful".

Please show in what ritual this is done in.

reply to post by PrplHrt

We're a minority here on this forum. How are we bullying? Is it because we oppose your beliefs? That's not bullying.

reply to post by PrplHrt

How are we a cult? Many things could be labeled a cult like the military forces.

Originally posted by PrplHrt
Left breast, right pant leg, noose about the neck. Don't tell me that's a positive organization. You operate in the shadows, behind closed doors. The windows of your lodges are kept perpetually covered.

Why do you hide? Because what you do can't be seen by the masses.

This is all off topic and irrelevant. Please create another thread if you wish to discuss this and do not spam mine with more off topic nonesense.

Worshiping Lucifer can't be done in the open. It has to be done behind closed doors with the shades drawn and cloaked in ritual to protect the "faithful".

Maybe you can start by demonstrating how Masons worship in Lodge at all, let alone to your make believe friend Lucifer (Satan).

The premise of the OP has been thoroughly debunked in this thread long ago... the OP's approach to this subject, a half-assed attempt to try and prove no Mason can have a specific religious belief, was a monumental failure from the very start.

So why is the truth being buried under a ton of petty and off-topic posts by just a few Masons?

Originally posted by Erbal
... the OP's approach to this subject, a half-assed attempt to try and prove no Mason can have a specific religious belief, was a monumental failure from the very start.

Keep on ignoring the links to Grand Lodges I provided.

Need more?

Originally posted by PrplHrt
reply to post by KSigMason

 

Tsk, tsk. You apron-wearers are a testy bunch. Nobody made any threats, so put your little white gloves away.

I merely point out the fact that strange things happen in this neighborhood and they seem to happen when you step on a Mason's bunion. Ordinary folk slide right on by but, boy, annoy the Masons hereabouts and THE HOOF COMES DOWN.

It's supernatural, what happened to me, and only a Mason could have done it. That's plugged in.

You fellas are sitting on the wrong lap for Christmas.

No need to worry you probably got hit with some type of so called majik attack to put it in more scientific terms the summoning of energy to be minipulated in bending your perceptual octave sort of how a reiki master would sommon energy, it also could have been a illusionary attack done miticluice to get a reaction out of you, i'v dealt with a poster on another board that would do the same thing, however i don't see any of the main Masons who post on here doing this, if it was indeed a Mason i would look at ones who lurk (low post count) more then post....

As far as the topic gos i have read all the pages and all the debates and i can see both sides and both sides have made valid points, and at this point i think the debate has come down to semantics in the end it is all how you perceive what jurisdiction means to any particular individual and that is in the eyes of the beholder ie each individual.

Sure. And a tall glass of deal with it.

How about a nice cup of shut the # up to go along with that.

Neither one of you worships the Biblical Lucifer so how is anything proven wrong?

How would you know which Lucifer I worship? Oh you don't. All I've ever said is Lucifer is the supreme God. You keep whining over my belief. How about a tall glass of deal with that.

Your points regarding jurisdiction are your rather simple opinion that you do not think anyone should adhere to them. A point of view does not negate their influence or authority in regards the voluntary membership thereof. Neither does your belief in Lucifer, by your own admission, corelate to the Original Posts assertions regarding the Historical Satan (Lucifer).

Simple opinion my ass. I could say the converse about your opinion. Funny now how all of a sudden you talk about authority when you have been trying to assert yours throughout this website. You have none you speak for only yourself. You do not speak for a Grand Lodge, or any lodge. Stop pretending as if your point of view is over others, and others are lesser than you. Sure it does, and so does the 'regular' brother's belief.

reply to post by Erbal

Fact is that we don't worship in Lodge. Fact is that if you do believe in Satan, he was created by another and thus not a Supreme Being.

While I know plenty of Masons of various beliefs the Constitutions of several Grand Lodges we've linked have clearly stated Freemasonry as an institution believes in one God. Everything we have posted you have twisted around to suit yourself. Even my own Code & Digest you twisted as if you knew more about it than I.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Erbal

 

Fact is that we don't worship in Lodge. Fact is that if you do believe in Satan, he was created by another and thus not a Supreme Being.

While I know plenty of Masons of various beliefs the Constitutions of several Grand Lodges we've linked have clearly stated Freemasonry as an institution believes in one God. Everything we have posted you have twisted around to suit yourself. Even my own Code & Digest you twisted as if you knew more about it than I.

edit on 25-11-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

This literally has nothing to do with worship in a lodge, why would you even bring that up as your first point, or any point at all for that matter? It's about whether or not a Mason can believe in a certain something, and worship it. That's personal to each individual.

You might have linked a few Grand Lodges with a one-God policy but that is not the standard of recognition for all Grand Lodges. You are conveniently ignoring the fact a good majority of Grand Lodges stick with the standard of recognition which is theism in general, and ALL Grand Lodges obey an even stricter policy of don't ask don't tell in regards to personal beliefs.

I find it amusing you are claiming I am twisting things to suit myself, and you are claiming I am pretending to know more about the Code & Digest than yourself. The hard truth is I asked, several times, for you to explain your interpretation of the Code & Digest so that we can all see what you see, considering the words of the Code & Digest were blatantly taken out of context in the first place to suit the needs of the Masonic side to this debate.

You refused to give any explanation about your interpretation and why it's superior to mine, and really all you did was express anger your word was even questioned at all, like you are some kind of ultimate authority on the subject. Yet here you are, again, asserting yourself as some supreme authority like I don't have eyes capable of comprehending the English language. Your choices speak volumes.

For the most part I have stayed out of this discussion but I do feel the need to address two points brought up.

First, the issue of regularity and recognition which is in my opinion a valid point to bring up as it is clear that not every Jurisdiction has the same requirement for Monotheism that the Grand Lodge Augustus belongs to does. My former Jurisdiction didn't require monotheism to join a Blue Lodge, although as I recall the SR Valley did. Therefore I agree, that a Brother can't make this statement about ALL "regular" (or "irregular" for that matter) Grand Lodges as there are many discrepancies among them as to what they consider the Landmarks.

Second, the point about the Jurisdictional rules. I belong to an Order considered "irregular" by the mainstream (but considered "regular" by ourselves and those in Amity with us. I would like to point out that my Order does have rules and regulations and each Lodge has it's own by-laws. If a Brother (or Sister) or a Lodge as a whole chooses not to recognize or abide by them they are suspended or expelled and a Lodge will lose it's Charter. These rules are not to subdue the free thoughts of our members but rather are the framework in which we labor. For the most part, these rules don't affect how and who I call Brother but they do sometimes affect what Lodges that I might visit.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
How about a nice cup of shut the f**k up to go along with that.

If you actually knew the recipe I would be impressed.

How would you know which Lucifer I worship? Oh you don't. All I've ever said is Lucifer is the supreme God.

Then maybe you can explain to everyone how the historical Lucifer is anything other then a mistranslation as has been previously explained.

You do not speak for a Grand Lodge, or any lodge. Stop pretending as if your point of view is over others, and others are lesser than you. Sure it does, and so does the 'regular' brother's belief.

I posted their own words which rather clearly made the point.

If you actually knew the recipe I would be impressed.

Its called a swift kick in the teeth.

Then maybe you can explain to everyone how the historical Lucifer is anything other then a mistranslation as has been previously explained.

Whose historical Lucifer yours? LMAO This from a fourth century guy who spoke for an Orthodox form of Christianity. That proves nothing. I feel sad for those poor Gnostics who were anything other than what you state. Oh wait Bishop Hoeller is the only Gnostic Church there has ever been.

I posted their own words which rather clearly made the point.

Not really you posted some Grand Lodges but this does not make it universal nor any more correct with the belief of having a creator god in a monotheistic sense with your obviously Christian proclivities. I wonder how I sat in a regular lodge with those buddhists, and their lack of a creator God.

The most prominent feature of Freemasonry is this crafty dude by the name of Hiram and the antics of the three thugs who killed him. They actually got their private feud that took place 3000 years ago to be reanacted by millions of grown and educated men up to this very day. Now thats a feat.

reply to post by Skyfloating


He shouldnt have come between the love of the Queen of Sheba and Hiram of Tyre those dirty djinn lovers.

reply to post by Skyfloating


He shouldnt have come between the love of the Queen of Sheba and Hiram of Tyre those dirty djinn lovers.

Queen of Sheba... Or Woman Of Many Talents... GET IT!?! Talents of gold... COMEDY!
Whats A Talent Of Gold Worth To A Pimp Named Solomon??? Go Figure!

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify.

Im interested how a simple mortal like you reading words written by simple mortals like you could possibly have any certainty of this? Interesting how you devoutly worship something without even knowing what it is.

How long do you think you masons can keep it together. Hearing the minds of your brothers try to rationalize or minimize their disagreements. Listening to the fabric rip.....

Q: "WHEREIN FOUND IS THE TRUTH OF JOURNEY FOR WHICH A STAR CAN BE NAMED?"
A: "On A Camel's Back!"

We All Meet On The Level!

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Its called a swift kick in the teeth.

Then make mine a double.

Whose historical Lucifer yours?

There is only one origination of the word Lucifer to mean a fallen angel and that as St. Jerome as has already been documented with verifiable and scholarly sources. Post your evidence to the contrary. Oh, wait, I forgot, you never do.

Not really you posted some Grand Lodges but this does not make it universal nor any more correct with the belief of having a creator god in a monotheistic sense with your obviously Christian proclivities.

I am about as far from Christian as you can get, try again.