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Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

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posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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Do we really have to go through this again?

From your own source . . . . www.newadvent.org...


Lucifer

(Hebrew helel; Septuagint heosphoros, Vulgate lucifer)

The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.

The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, "to lament"; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1.14), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4).


Your reading comprehension is faulty or you are being purposely deceitful:


In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4).


From the same source. You are leaving out the part which actually states in clear English the Christian belief. You are absolutely ridiculous.

You provided a quote form one bishop which is not corroborated in any official church doctrine and have failed to provide any supporting doctrine. You quote the FLC as if it proved your point and were proven false.

You are totally delusional, honestly I am shocked that you are still trying to push this.



Again please provide your sources for what you have learned about Satanism or Luciferianism.




posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by helen6700
So, which God is the God that one adheres to in masonic tradition?


God, the Creator of the Universe.




Hi/
I guess it depends on which GOD one believes is the creator of this universe...therefore the Word GOD can have a different meaning to the One True God.

ICXC NIKA



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 04:59 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by helen6700
Quote///Mackey says: "As Masons we are taught never to commence any great or important undertaking without first invoking the blessing and protection of Deity,
and this is because Masonry is a religious institution." (Masonic Ritualist, p. 44)


The Senate of the United States opens each session by invoking Deity, does this constitute worship?





edit on 10-11-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer


Hi/

Well, why open each session by invoking Deity then?
Does it constitute worship?
I believe it does!
If one seeks guidance, then one opens session with a Deity!
Which DEITY is only known to them.....and the one True God who was and is and forever will be!

ICXC NIKA



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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Gad didnt create the universe the evil little minion the Demiurg did

edit on 11-11-2012 by ExuLucifer because: all my previous posts have had edit tags



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Gad didnt create the universe the evil little minion the Demiurg did

edit on 11-11-2012 by ExuLucifer because: all my previous posts have had edit tags



Thanks for your answer.....
Wow, such smart comments!
You deserve a medal, or three!!!

Sorry, cant seem to ''roll my eyes'' as your smiley!

ICXC NIKA



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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Thanks for your answer.....
Wow, such smart comments!
You deserve a medal, or three!!!

Sorry, cant seem to ''roll my eyes'' as your smiley!

ICXC NIKA

I dont really like medals thats why I threw all mine away when I got out of the army.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by ExuLucifer
No its a not a subgroup as it has delination, but it has Gnostic trappings. I will give you one guess whose crown it was whose jewel fell from heaven who is spoken of in initiation into the order.


So is the relationship stricly a rental/usage arrangement?


I do disagree with him. Your confusion of the matter lies in the Gnostic realm. Bishop Hoeller is a Gnostic in the traditional more classic sense particularly in regards to his Gnostic ritual which is based upon the Catholic Mass changed to make it a Gnostic Mass.


Which was my point when I commented that you have a rather unorthodox view. The majority of the reading I have done regarding Gnosticism is similar in its teachings to Hoeller.


I differ in the fact that while I am Gnostic I am more specifically a Gnostic Luciferian. I am also thiestic, as I am not an athiest in my belief structure.


Where do you place Lucifer in regards to God?



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
From the same source. You are leaving out the part which actually states in clear English the Christian belief. You are absolutely ridiculous.


I find you to be rather comical. The reason I gave you that source is because you disputed my Jerome comments which have been consistent from the Original Post. The source proves St. Jerome mistranslated the Bible when he was converting it to Latin.


You provided a quote form one bishop which is not corroborated in any official church doctrine and have failed to provide any supporting doctrine.


The quote was sourced, if you have an issue with it debate the source. I see you also failed to mention Luther, again. He must have an uncorroborated opinion as well.


You quote the FLC as if it proved your point and were proven false.


The Laterran Council most certainly codified Satan for contemporary and future Christians.


Again please provide your sources for what you have learned about Satanism or Luciferianism.


Maybe later.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Hi Augustus,

- You have listened to an Italian mass, well I listen to a Croatian mass for the last 40 years.


- If Masons do not use symbols of a Pentagram, Skull and Cross Bones, Goat , Cross, hexagram then I apologise to all the MASONS AROUND THE WORLD. But I have a good feeling about Free masons in the last few years in world politics.

- Lamb and Goat is the same when it comes to a Sacrifice. Exodus12.2 , Passover. the tenth day ( x) of the first month a young male goat or a lamb will be killed. Also in Leviticus Goats and sheep were sacrificed for Sin offerings. So you saying " It would be like saying a dog and a fox are the same thing." is not true. the Catholic church sacrifices JESUS every mass as an animal, which is against YESHUA AS THE MESSIAH.

- I THINK YOU ARE MUCH SMARTER AND KNOW THAT THE JOLLY ROGER DID NOT COME FROM PIRATES!!
XP = JOLLY ROGER = DEATH AND TROPHY OF JESUS
XP = CHI RHO
X = CHI in greek , in Hebrew and ancient Semitic is "Samekh" = FISH
X = = T Tav/Tau = Mark = + = Jesus
P = RHO in Greek. Resh in Hebrew and ancient Semitic means a HUMAN HEAD
P = Everyone is to believe that Constantine utilisedthe name of CHRIST on his flag, however, it was not so,
Constantine used the RHO (P), which is "RESH" in Hebrew and symbolises a human HEAD and Jesus was crucifies in Golgotha, which means "THE PLACE OF THE SKULL"


- ALL EAGLES ARE THE SYMBOL OF JESUS, USED AS A TROPHY FOR HIS DEFEAT.
2nd ESDRAS, 5th Vision.

-True, Temple can mean SOLOMONS TEMPLE, but how do you know the truth?? Is it Solomon's temple or JESUS TEMPLE?? This you will maybe never find out.


- 1, 3, 5 and 7 are the numbers we use with frequency. All numbers were made by the world leaders with the same meaning, So NUMBER 3 TRINITY, NUMBER 5 "V" Victory and number 7 "G" the number OF GOD, HEAVEN. THE CHOSEN PEOPLE
- The meaning of 13 is before the day that the Knights Templar were outlawed by the Pope.
- 13 is JESUS, Chapter 13 in the Revelation was written against Jesus. FRIDAY 13TH is JESUS

- You said "The rest of the sentence makes no sense." Please, I find you to be quite smart, if you don't want to talk about the true meaning of SATAN, THEN JUST TELL ME. But to say that what I wrote makes no sense is just you CHANGING THE SUBJECT for some reason??'? And you don't want to talk about it. But I will give you more details below.

- 666 = XXX = +++ = FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT =HOLY TRINITY = JESUS
- 666 = Friday the 6th day of the week, THE DAY JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED
666 = 6 FOOT UNDER
666 = There are 6 weeks of lent prior to EASTER
666 = 6th letter of the aplhabet is F = FRIDAY = Friday 13th = JESUS
666 = Revelations ,The Father- 6th Seal
Son - 6th Trumpet
Holy spirit- 6th Bowl
666= Revelation 13.5 "The beast was allowed to make proud claims which were insulting to God and it was
permitted to have authority for Forty two months" = 42 months = 3.5 years, Jesus started to preach at
the age of 30 and was crucified at the age of 33 and half years = 3.5 years = 42 months

666= The second book of Esdras , the Fifth Vision of the EAGLE- Most scholars date the the Eagle Vision
during 69- 96 AD. " the second night Ihad a dream. I saw an eagle coming up out of the sea.
It had twelve wings and three heads. All three heads was a sleep, even the middle one, which was larger
then the other two" = EAGLE = JESUS AS SATAN



666= Revelation 13.2 " the beast looked like a leopard, with feet like a bears feet and a mouth like a lions
mouth"
In Heraldry the beast is used as a symbol of victory over the beast, who is JESUS.
Flag of England and many other Countries use the symbol of the beast, while everyone thinks ita Lion.
Also in Heraldry the symbol of a castle with 3 towers also means 666.
In fact nearly all of symbols used in Heraldry is based on the revelation and used as a
symbol of defeat against Satan who is JESUS.

Once again I will mention that SATAN in Hebrew means OPPONENT, Jesus was SATAN, the opponent to the leaders that crucified him, and they are the leaders who wrote the Revelation's against him.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by helen6700
Hi/
I guess it depends on which GOD one believes is the creator of this universe...therefore the Word GOD can have a different meaning to the One True God.


How many Creators of the Unvierse do you feel there are? I believe in one God, the omnipotent creator of all.

I am starting to get the distinct feeling that if I do not say, 'Jesus Christ', you are going to disprove of my explanation of God.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by helen6700
Well, why open each session by invoking Deity then?
Does it constitute worship?
I believe it does!
If one seeks guidance, then one opens session with a Deity!
Which DEITY is only known to them.....and the one True God who was and is and forever will be!


Seeking guidance is not the same as worshipping. Mentioning or invoking God does not mean one is worshipping God.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by dave13
- If Masons do not use symbols of a Pentagram, Skull and Cross Bones, Goat , Cross, hexagram then I apologise to all the MASONS AROUND THE WORLD.


There is no need to apologize as this is a common misconception.


- Lamb and Goat is the same when it comes to a Sacrifice.


As we just cleared up, there is neither goats nor lambs in Masonry.


- I THINK YOU ARE MUCH SMARTER AND KNOW THAT THE JOLLY ROGER DID NOT COME FROM PIRATES!!


It in fact did. The origings of the Jolyl Roger was the use of a red falg by pirates to signal 'no quarter/mercy' if there warning shots were not heeded. This was called the Joli Rouge (pretty red). As piracy in the 16th and 17th century became more prevelant priates began adopting secondary black flags to differentiate themselves for other pirates. Many of the flags did not even have a skull and crossbones.


-True, Temple can mean SOLOMONS TEMPLE, but how do you know the truth?? Is it Solomon's temple or JESUS TEMPLE?? This you will maybe never find out.


It is Solomon's Temple as the ritual explains this in numerous places.


- You said "The rest of the sentence makes no sense." Please, I find you to be quite smart, if you don't want to talk about the true meaning of SATAN, THEN JUST TELL ME.


I do not believe in Satan so any attempt for you to try and explain his 'true meaning' would be a waste of your time.


Once again I will mention that SATAN in Hebrew means OPPONENT...


Which is what I said earlier.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by dave13
 



Hi Augustus,

- You have listened to an Italian mass, well I listen to a Croatian mass for the last 40 years.


- If Masons do not use symbols of a Pentagram, Skull and Cross Bones, Goat , Cross, hexagram
then I apologise to all the MASONS AROUND THE WORLD.
But I have a good feeling about Free masons in the last few years in world politics.

- Lamb and Goat is the same when it comes to a Sacrifice.
Exodus12.2 , Passover. the tenth day ( x) of the first month a young male goat or a lamb will be killed.
Also in Leviticus Goats and sheep were sacrificed for Sin offerings.
So you saying " It would be like saying a dog and a fox are the same thing." is not true,
the Catholic church sacrifices JESUS every mass as an animal,
which is against YESHUA AS THE MESSIAH.

- I THINK YOU ARE MUCH SMARTER AND KNOW THAT THE JOLLY ROGER
DID NOT COME FROM PIRATES!!

XP = JOLLY ROGER = DEATH AND TROPHY OF JESUS
XP = CHI RHO
X = CHI in greek , in Hebrew and ancient Semitic is "Samekh" = FISH
X = = T Tav/Tau = Mark = + = Jesus
P = RHO in Greek. Resh in Hebrew and ancient Semitic means a HUMAN HEAD
P = Everyone is to believe that Constantine utilisedthe name of CHRIST on his flag,
however, it was not so, Constantine used the RHO (P), which is "RESH" in Hebrew
and symbolises a human HEAD and Jesus was crucifies in Golgotha,
which means "THE PLACE OF THE SKULL"


- ALL EAGLES ARE THE SYMBOL OF JESUS, USED AS A TROPHY FOR HIS DEFEAT.
2nd ESDRAS, 5th Vision.

-True, Temple can mean SOLOMONS TEMPLE, but how do you know the truth??
Is it Solomon's temple or JESUS TEMPLE?? This you will maybe never find out.


- 1, 3, 5 and 7 are the numbers we use with frequency.
All numbers were made by the world leaders with the same meaning, So NUMBER 3 TRINITY, NUMBER 5 "V" Victory and
number 7 "G" the number OF GOD, HEAVEN. THE CHOSEN PEOPLE

- The meaning of 13 is before the day that the Knights Templar were outlawed by the Pope.
- 13 is JESUS, Chapter 13 in the Revelation was written against Jesus. FRIDAY 13TH is JESUS

- You said "The rest of the sentence makes no sense." Please, I find you to be quite smart,
if you don't want to talk about the true meaning of SATAN,THEN JUST TELL ME.
But to say that what I wrote makes no sense is just you CHANGING THE SUBJECT
for some reason??'?
And you don't want to talk about it. But I will give you more details below.

- 666 = XXX = +++ = FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT =HOLY TRINITY = JESUS
- 666 = Friday the 6th day of the week, THE DAY JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED
666 = 6 FOOT UNDER
666 = There are 6 weeks of lent prior to EASTER
666 = 6th letter of the aplhabet is F = FRIDAY = Friday 13th = JESUS
666 = Revelations ,The Father- 6th Seal
Son - 6th Trumpet
Holy spirit- 6th Bowl
666= Revelation 13.5 "The beast was allowed to make proud claims which were insulting to God
and it was permitted to have authority for Forty two months" = 42 months = 3.5 years,
Jesus started to preach at the age of 30 and was crucified at the age of 33 and half years
= 3.5 years = 42 months

666= The second book of Esdras , the Fifth Vision of the EAGLE-
Most scholars date the the Eagle Vision during 69- 96 AD.
" the second night Ihad a dream. I saw an eagle coming up out of the sea.
It had twelve wings and three heads. All three heads was a sleep,
even the middle one, which was larger then the other two"
= EAGLE = JESUS AS SATAN



666= Revelation 13.2 " the beast looked like leopard, with feet like a bears feet
and a mouth like a lions mouth"
In Heraldry the beast is used as a symbol of victory over the beast, who is JESUS.
Flag of England and many other Countries use the symbol of the beast,
while everyone thinks it's Lion.
Also in Heraldry the symbol of a castle with 3 towers also means 666.
In fact nearly all of symbols used in Heraldry is based on the revelation and used as a
symbol of defeat against Satan who is JESUS.

Once again I will mention that SATAN in Hebrew means OPPONENT,
Jesus was SATAN, the opponent to the leaders that crucified him,
and they are the leaders who wrote the Revelation's against him.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Hi Augustus, I understand you just want to talk about MASONS, not 666, not a problem. You want to be diplomatic, no problem. I dont believe in SATAN ALSO, BUT I BELIEVE IN JESUS- YESHUA AND FOR THE TRUTH TO COME OUT AFTER 2000 YEARS OF LIES AGAINST HIM. But you know whats funny about the number 666, everytime I mention these numbers in the last few years I get no answer FROM ANYONE, not even from the Church. I think BIG BROTHER IS WORKING HARD FOR THE TRUTH NOT TO BE REVEALED.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by helen6700
 

No, having an opening prayer does not constitute worship. Lots of organization have an opening prayer, why single out Freemasonry?

reply to post by dave13
 

You seem to be just tossing out symbols. If you are so sure we use them, please show me where. I will say some of them are used (not necessarily in the Blue Lodge or Craft Masonry), but not all the ones you listed.

The use of the Jolly Rogers, Chi Rho, and numerology is your opinion and interpretation.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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So is the relationship stricly a rental/usage arrangement?

Yes and No. Yes there is the usage arrangement obviously, but most of the Grand Officers for example are traditionally Gnostic Priests and Bishops. The 2nd in the Order is a Bishop of a French Gnostic Tradition. While the individual who chartered the order is also Gnostic Bishop in another tradition. Also, as I have pointed out members of the order do not singularly come from Ecclessia Gnostica, but also from other Gnostic churches. In the traditional sense Gnostic churches have no members, but those who participate are initiates. Therefore, it is to say the members of the order are traditionally initiates, and would correlate to the parishioners of the Gnostic Churches. Further there is not a singular lodge in the order the Grand Master's lodge is located at Ecclessia Gnostica as the individual is a Priest there.

Which was my point when I commented that you have a rather unorthodox view. The majority of the reading I have done regarding Gnosticism is similar in its teachings to Hoeller.

Yes and No again. Theologically you could say he has a traditional view, but when you look at his actual ritual, and in practice it clearly is not. When looking at the ritual it is simply the Catholic Mass redone to make it Gnostic. Everything is how a Catholic Mass would be done except worded differently.

Where do you place Lucifer in regards to God?

Lucifer is God. Saklas is the false creator of this world. In the termed Hebrew Bible it begins with beit rather than aleph which is indicative of a second creation as aleph is the beginning. What other creations has the Demiurg screwed up? Further, if this creator starts in beit then it is also not originally first. The true God creates as the beginning with aleph. If they are not originally first in aleph then they are not truly God. In the so called Genesis Eve then Adam partake of the Tree of Good and Evil obtaining Gnosis. Further, in the 3rd chapter the word sin is not used when Adam and Eve are banished from the Garden of Eden. Specifically, in the 24th verse it is so that they may not partake of the Tree of Life. So you have went from a second creation, of a second being, to do not partake or you will surely die, and you are led to believe Gnosis is why they died. When really this creator just holds a mean ass grudge and kicked them out so they could not partake of the Tree of Life, made them die, and you are given a lie of original sin. Seeing as this inferior creator could not even control his creations and banishes them makes them seem pretty inept, and another point against the bumbler.
edit on 11-11-2012 by ExuLucifer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 



Its not just my opinion and Interpretation, THIS IS THE EASY WAY OUT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT.
I have proof that XP -Chi Rho is the Skull - Bones and that 666 is JESUS, its impossible to put everything on this FORUM.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by dave13
Hi Augustus, I understand you just want to talk about MASONS, not 666, not a problem. You want to be diplomatic, no problem. I dont believe in SATAN ALSO, BUT I BELIEVE IN JESUS- YESHUA AND FOR THE TRUTH TO COME OUT AFTER 2000 YEARS OF LIES AGAINST HIM. But you know whats funny about the number 666, everytime I mention these numbers in the last few years I get no answer FROM ANYONE, not even from the Church. I think BIG BROTHER IS WORKING HARD FOR THE TRUTH NOT TO BE REVEALED.


I am not really following what that has to do with Masonry or the Original Post.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Further there is not a singular lodge in the order the Grand Master's lodge is located at Ecclessia Gnostica as the individual is a Priest there.


Being that the Grand Master is a Priest in Ecclessia how does that not influence the beliefs of your lodge? How can he be a Priest with one group and believe/teach something else?


Yes and No again. Theologically you could say he has a traditional view, but when you look at his actual ritual, and in practice it clearly is not. When looking at the ritual it is simply the Catholic Mass redone to make it Gnostic. Everything is how a Catholic Mass would be done except worded differently.


While the ritual bears similarity I was more interested in the belief system which is not the same.


Lucifer is God.


As in the Creator of the Universe?



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


If you limit your claims to just that then I have no qualms, but don't continue going around trying to claim the 'devil' rules in hell or that (L)ucifer is the name of the fallen angel as those have been proven false.

If you do want to continue spewing that nonsense then at least provide the doctrine which specifically states what you are trying to claim as so far none of what you have presented holds up to the traditions or doctrine of any of the delineations of faith you have cited.


I am beginning to feel you have not actually done much reading in the way of Luciferian, Satanism, nor the Mysteries as you can't even produce a list (even one you BS'd on amazon).


All in all my conclusion is you are not in any position to act as authority on any of the organizations you bring up in this thread and any further pursuits here will be fruitless.



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