Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

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posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
I believe many masons revere lucifer because:
Some masons told me that they revere lucifer and one 32nd degree expounded on this to answer my questions.
This luciferic revelation has came out the mouths of masons online, in books and face to face.


The likelihood of me 'revering' Lucifer is zero because I do not believe in such a thing.

The likelihood that a Lucifer-believer such as yourself reveres Lucifer is much higher since you actually believe in Lucifer.

That is the paradox of the Lucifer-believer, he decries others, who do not believe in such a concept, as adherents to this un-Godlike being, whilst himself wholeheartedly believing in said being himself.

Belief in Lucifer (Satan) is the superstitious result of ascribing to a dogma that was invented for the sole reason of frightening you into submission. Those of you who believe have my sympathy. Those of you who believe and wish to drag me into your belief have my unending scorn.




posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
If you are looking for an angle you should look at masonic involvement in many revolutions.


Why do you continue to make off topic posts in an attempt to derail this thread?

It is not about Masons that may have been involved in revolutions, Albert Pike or the Hellfire Club.

The thread is about Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan).

Are you able to post to the topic or will you continue to spam my thread with irrelevant tangents?



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
And all of the mason / shriner talk of charities and fund raisers......lets cast some more light on this.......


See the above post. If you wish to discuss a different topic START ANOTHER THREAD.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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Please people the topic is Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)
anymore off topic posts will be removed.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 

So we're to believe "some Masons" told you? Well, there are many 32nd degree Masons here on ATS telling you that we don't? Is our word less than theirs?


This luciferic revelation has came out the mouths of masons online, in books and face to face.

I'm sure this could corroborated with names?


I'm just curious why you need a scapegoat for every little issue.


But instead we get today's reality and most of it due to corrupt politicians and corporate leaders working in secret behind the scenes and saying that they are doing it for the good of all men.

What does this have to do with Freemasonry?


Because freemasonry is a lie, the secrecy is the only thing it has to protect its lies and perhaps fm is worse than lucifer or satan...fm could be a sorcery of such grand and grotesque scale that should its secrecy be lifted. All men would storm its fortresses to rout the world of this evil.

Freemasonry isn't a lie. You try so hard, so desperately to demonize us. It's really sad.

Sorcery?
Oh?! You're serious! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Our secrecy hides nothing wrong and I know of no just reason why we need to justify our existence to you. Our ideals seem to piss those who embrace ignorance, fanaticism, and tyranny. You can try to rout us, but you will not succeed nor are we evil.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 

In the American Revolution, French Revolution, and American Civil War, Masons were on both sides of the conflict. Plus in France, Freemasonry was predominately composed of the aristocracy or high-born.

Freemasonry is and has always been composed of men of various beliefs. One of my good friends in Freemasonry is extremely liberal while I'm libertarian with conservative (classical liberal) beliefs.


You see the grand lodge was initially a watered down version of masonry from their roots.

Ummmmm....wow....this is completely incorrect.


Then of course their is Albert Pike a defender of slavery honored most highly among Freemasons.

Honored for his contributions to the Craft, not for his personal beliefs. It was a different time

But alas, neither revolution or Pike prove that we worship Lucifer.



posted on Oct, 4 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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A mason starts a thread in denial of years of pro luciferic writs from masons and in contradiction of scores of pro luciferic masons and then complains when non masons refuse to just lie down and let masons control the conversations.

It is apparent the masons feel they are oh so special and oh so privileged and so sensitive that they cannot handle anyone disagreeing with their self portrayal I can see your weakness and feel pity for your bruised egos with all the time, effort and money spent on freakmasonry you just have to be right.

As I have posted on ATS and elsewhere, I do not care of you worship lucifer, god, jahbulon, IAOM, yaldabaoth, the goddess of reason etc. I am just asking you to come out your closets...

Just think? the nons especially the non masons who are non christian may be more tolerant than you imagine especially if you come out and explain yourselves and your deity in the clear light of day.

There is a good chance that I will accept a luciferian who is brave and proud and truly open about their position.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by partycrasher
 

Please cite these pro-Luciferic Masons...outside of Hall's and Pike's writings that your kind often misquotes.

You've made claims that you know some "pro-Luciferic Masons", but this is cannot be corroborated as you have never provided evidence of their existence or membership.

Our disagreement with you does not come from a superiority complex, but rather we disagree because what you are saying is simply not true. Your kind manipulates, perverts, fabricates, and twists information to suit your agenda.


I can see your weakness and feel pity for your bruised egos with all the time, effort and money spent on freakmasonry you just have to be right.

lol Speaking of weakness, here is an example of a nasty, desperate attack and stupid attempt to demonize us. My ego isn't bruised, but then again I was raised to have pretty thick skin. You're the one coming in here and acting like a child with all of this name-calling . "Freakmasonry"? Real original.

I don't regret any of the effort and money I've put into Freemasonry because I know what I'm doing and what its going for...nothing that you think its going to.


As I have posted on ATS and elsewhere, I do not care of you worship lucifer, god, jahbulon, IAOM, yaldabaoth, the goddess of reason etc. I am just asking you to come out your closets...

So you'd believe us if we said we worshiped Lucifer, but when we say we don't, you chastise us? It doesn't sound like you don't care. In fact, it seems like an unhealthy obsession.

There is no worshiping within Freemasonry. That is something practiced by each member on their own OUTSIDE of the Lodge. Maybe one day you'll get it.


There is a good chance that I will accept a luciferian who is brave and proud and truly open about their position.

Uh huh
You say this gritted teeth like some kind of wolf or snake.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
A mason starts a thread in denial of years of pro luciferic writs from masons and in contradiction of scores of pro luciferic masons and then complains when non masons refuse to just lie down and let masons control the conversations.


This is not about controlling a conversation, the thread is about a specific topic. If you feel the need to post about a different topic, POST SOMEWHERE ELSE.


It is apparent the masons feel they are oh so special and oh so privileged and so sensitive that they cannot handle anyone disagreeing with their self portrayal I can see your weakness and feel pity for your bruised egos with all the time, effort and money spent on freakmasonry you just have to be right.


It is obvious, by your post removal, that you do not have the ability to stay on topic and instead have to resort to childish sentences like the one quoted above.


Just think? the nons especially the non masons who are non christian may be more tolerant than you imagine especially if you come out and explain yourselves and your deity in the clear light of day.


It was clear, God is God and Lucifer, the being you acutally believe in, is a Christian fairy tale.


There is a good chance that I will accept a luciferian who is brave and proud and truly open about their position.


Well I am sure you would find it heartening to locate a fellow Lucifer-believer, sorry to say that I am not one of them. Continue your search, perhaps you will find a another friend who shares your belief.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by partycrasher
As I have posted on ATS and elsewhere, I do not care of you worship lucifer, god, jahbulon, IAOM, yaldabaoth, the goddess of reason etc. I am just asking you to come out your closets...


Unfortunately, we keep telling you exactly who we believe in and why. You are just too damn pig headed to comprehend it. You have the one and only answer that is acceptable already in your mind. So no answer we give will suffice.

We enjoy these discourses as they usually make us pull FACTS from places we might not have previously looked, therefore learning something new. But please don't mistake the discourse for any sort of fear or worry. The insignificant amount of people who fear their own shadows along with masonry will not ever have any power over any group, including masonry.



posted on Oct, 5 2012 @ 06:55 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify.
This quote was taken from the original post.


Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ManjushriPrajna
I don't necessarily agree, personally, on the kind of secrecy and exclusivity the Freemasons have...


There is no exclusivity, nearly everyone can join some form of Masonry or another and learn pratically the same thing as anyone else. There are groups that allow men, women, or both, there are even obdiences that allow atheists. The only preclusion I can think of is convicted felons.

Later in the discussion (page 3), the original poster wrote this quote.

The thread title, the OP, and the 2nd quote all combined to create a sort of cognitive dissonance for me.

It seems clear the OP feels there is a real distinction between Masonry in general (all forms of Masonry) and something more specific he labeled as "regular" Masonry.

If the argument is that "regular" Masons are required to believe in a Supreme Being and Lucifer/Satan is not a Supreme Being, but the fine print later states not ALL forms of Masonry are "regular" and/or required to believe in a Supreme Being, I am forced to come to the conclusion the OP's argument is a complete logical failure OR that the title of this thread (perhaps even the entire effort of the OP) is misleading and/or disingenuous at best.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by willrush
 



I have been hearing a bit about people saying this group and that group worships the devil not the true god, but it is my understanding god can only become a false god if you try to define him in a way that is not 100% accurate, and 'nearly' no statement can be 100% accurate therefore god is ineffable.


The masonic teachings explicitly state that the god they worship is the grand architect of the universe, and I am unsure how this is disputable. IF you think that the grand architect is Satan, rest assured I would like to hear more about your opinions. That would interest me immensely because I personally think of god as the grand architect of the universe just as the free masons do. The old testament refers to Satan as the Lords "right hand man", if this is true than Satan is just acting in the will of god and should be respected accordingly.


But as for Luciferianism in freemasonry - that is only established in the 33rd degree, or so I have heard. And there is a distinct difference between Lucifer and the Devil - in other words Venus and Saturn. One can be illuminated by lucifers light yet still worship the one true god. As they say - lucifer is the false light, but a light in this world nonetheless. IT all depends on how you use your knowledge, not on which knowledge you have attained. The power of Saturn and Venus can be abused, and it is up to god to judge you for it.


I probably appear to be defending free-masons here but I have a great deal of respect for their organization - ignorant as I am to what they do behind closed doors.
edit on 7-10-2012 by On7a7higher7plane because: Additions.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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I don't understand how that proves that Masons can't worship Lucifer. What if they believe that Lucifer or Satan is the supreme being and that the bible lied?

You call Lucifer "superstitious" beliefs but isn't this just disagreement?

Two people can believe that THEIR being is the one that is supreme, and they can just call each other - "the one believing in a superstitious being that is not really supreme".



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
I don't understand how that proves that Masons can't worship Lucifer. What if they believe that Lucifer or Satan is the supreme being and that the bible lied?



There is only one Creator (the Supreme Being).

Whaterever you call the Creator, it is still the same supreme being.

Even if Masons did believe that the Bible lied and the Creator is called Satan, it is still the Creator.

Since you worship the Creator, and Masons worship the Creator, even if you called the Creator God, and Masons called him Satan, we would still be Worshiping the same God, right. (If you call a horse a dog, it is still a horse).

As On7a7higher7plane has said, Masons explicitely state that we worship the Creator. Irrespective of what anybody may call that Creator, it is the same being, since there is only one Creator.

That being said, we do not call the Creator Lucifer or Satan. Logic dictates that if we worship the Creator alone, we cannot worship Satan or Lucifer.

Whether or not the Bible lied is irrelevant (and in fact, many Masons do not believe the Bible). However, it is still the Creator that we worship.



edit on 7/10/2012 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:00 AM
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In fact, the following two points are explicit in Freemasonry and any other belief is irreconcilable with Freemasonry:

Fact 1: There is one God, and that God is the Creator.
Fact 2: Masons worship the Creator.

Now, I would like to hear any logical argument using these two premises that could suggest that we worship Satan or Lucifer or anybody else. It is simply not possible.

Although the details of the nature of God vary from Mason to Mason, and God may be called by different names by different Masons, whatever their interpretation of God, the two facts mentioned above are distinct and irrevocable requirements.

edit on 7/10/2012 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Erbal
It seems clear the OP feels there is a real distinction between Masonry in general (all forms of Masonry) and something more specific he labeled as "regular" Masonry.


All forms of Masonry are going to teach the same moral lessons. The difference is that in Regular Masonry, which is fraternal, one must profess faith in God while irregular Masonry may not be fraternal and can also be open to Aethists.


If the argument is that "regular" Masons are required to believe in a Supreme Being and Lucifer/Satan is not a Supreme Being, but the fine print later states not ALL forms of Masonry are "regular" and/or required to believe in a Supreme Being...


See above, not all forms of Masonry require belief in God.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by On7a7higher7plane
The old testament refers to Satan as the Lords "right hand man", if this is true than Satan is just acting in the will of god and should be respected accordingly.


Please quote the specific passage.


But as for Luciferianism in freemasonry - that is only established in the 33rd degree...


This is a popular misconception, the Scottish Rite degrees hold no more relevance to the non-Scottish Rite Masons.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
I don't understand how that proves that Masons can't worship Lucifer. What if they believe that Lucifer or Satan is the supreme being and that the bible lied?


How can Satan be supreme when according to Christian mythos Satan was created by God?


You call Lucifer "superstitious" beliefs but isn't this just disagreement?


The concept of Satan was purely a Christian creation. There was no legend or myth of a fallen angel who presides in Hell until the Christian era and it was not fully codified until 1213 in the Fourth Lateran Council.

The word Lucifer equalling Satan was a Miltonian mistranslation in a novel from the Medieval period and was not even believed to represent Satan when the New Testament was written.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Erbal
It seems clear the OP feels there is a real distinction between Masonry in general (all forms of Masonry) and something more specific he labeled as "regular" Masonry.


All forms of Masonry are going to teach the same moral lessons. The difference is that in Regular Masonry, which is fraternal, one must profess faith in God while irregular Masonry may not be fraternal and can also be open to Aethists.


If the argument is that "regular" Masons are required to believe in a Supreme Being and Lucifer/Satan is not a Supreme Being, but the fine print later states not ALL forms of Masonry are "regular" and/or required to believe in a Supreme Being...


See above, not all forms of Masonry require belief in God.

So what is this thread intended to defend, the specific form of Masonry known as "regular" or all Masons in general?

The title is: "Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan), "
The OP's argument clearly states: "All regular Masons are required to have a belief in a Supreme Being, i.e. God, and the planet Venus, whom the Romans refered to as Lucifer, certainly does not qualify. "

You are now clearly and definitively stating: "See above, not all forms of Masonry require belief in God."

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD??????????????????????????????????
Please help me understand your intended message, OP.

If your OP argument doesn't hold water for Masonry in GENERAL, why did you make a conscious choice to not clarify in the title and the OP that you are only speaking about a SPECIFIC form of Masonry?

What are you trying to do here and why are you trying to do it? (Based on what I've seen so far, I have no expectations you will be honest and forthright so you are in no danger of disappointing me)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions


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edit on Sun Oct 7 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)






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