Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307

Considering that no one has raised any allegations towards the Shriners (that I know of) and the fact that someone I know who is not a Mason, states that Shriners essentially saved his life from homelessness and potential death from living on the streets, I would say that they are here to do good, as they claim and as all evidence shows. Now the Royal Order of Jesters is another story - although still not as "evil" as anti-Masonites would like to believe.

I joined at the same time as a friend whose father was a Mason, thinking I would do an expose on their sadistic, goat-pee drinking rituals, only to be met with a group of late middle-aged men having fish dinners and writing checks to various charities. At the lodge I attended, there was no discussion of politics or religion. After I became a Master Mason, I asked about the higher degrees, was quoted a price and ran through the other 29 degrees in a weekend, and still didn't get to meet Satan or eat any babies.

originally posted by: LoneWanderer1307
When you're "saving souls" it justifies burning bodies or putting swords through bodies.

And that is the hypocrisy of much of organized religion.

originally posted by: ultimafule
After I became a Master Mason, I asked about the higher degrees, was quoted a price and ran through the other 29 degrees in a weekend, and still didn't get to meet Satan or eat any babies.

You are still not high enough.


As the argument goes...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ultimafule
After I became a Master Mason, I asked about the higher degrees, was quoted a price and ran through the other 29 degrees in a weekend, and still didn't get to meet Satan or eat any babies.

You are still not high enough.


As the argument goes...

I really hope there is some super secret fun esoteric stuff at some point...

Several people told me if I make it to the 33rd degree and have done the right things, said the right things, and I am "selected" they will take me aside and say, "well you know there's actually more degrees, you're going higher" and then I will get to know some of the real super secret stuff...

That would be neat.

originally posted by: ultimafule
a reply to: LoneWanderer1307

Considering that no one has raised any allegations towards the Shriners (that I know of) and the fact that someone I know who is not a Mason, states that Shriners essentially saved his life from homelessness and potential death from living on the streets, I would say that they are here to do good, as they claim and as all evidence shows. Now the Royal Order of Jesters is another story - although still not as "evil" as anti-Masonites would like to believe.

I joined at the same time as a friend whose father was a Mason, thinking I would do an expose on their sadistic, goat-pee drinking rituals, only to be met with a group of late middle-aged men having fish dinners and writing checks to various charities. At the lodge I attended, there was no discussion of politics or religion. After I became a Master Mason, I asked about the higher degrees, was quoted a price and ran through the other 29 degrees in a weekend, and still didn't get to meet Satan or eat any babies.

I have heard some bad things about the Jesters and I have read the recent indictment of a number of jesters for their "fishing trip" [i.e. under-age 13-14 year old prostitutes] in Brazil. As an aside the consent age in Brazil is 15 and prostitution is legal in Brazil [for adult participants].

But as I have said, organizations with lots of members are prone to have a percentage that engage in misconduct.

We're told to overlook and accept the Roman Catholic Church when about 3% of their priests turned out to be child molesters going after pre-teen boys, and the senior officials knew and just kept moving priests around.

originally posted by: LoneWanderer1307

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ultimafule
After I became a Master Mason, I asked about the higher degrees, was quoted a price and ran through the other 29 degrees in a weekend, and still didn't get to meet Satan or eat any babies.

You are still not high enough.

As the argument goes...

I really hope there is some super secret fun esoteric stuff at some point...

Several people told me if I make it to the 33rd degree and have done the right things, said the right things, and I am "selected" they will take me aside and say, "well you know there's actually more degrees, you're going higher" and then I will get to know some of the real super secret stuff...

That would be neat.

You must recite from the Jaocim amulet and turn the dagger 33 degrees east while on one knee….

...then, whoa..lookout.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307

You would still not be high enough.

Hell, if there were a Get Baked Until You Float degree you would still be told you were not high enough.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Hey, I like the tin foil hat you added to your avatar.

-FBB

originally posted by: FriedBabelBroccoli
Hey, I like the tin foil hat you added to your avatar.
-FBB

I am an Illuminati slave to fashion.

originally posted by: Wormwoody
If you ever wondered if Freemasons worship Satan well the proof is here!

Read the Original Post then factor in my disbelief in Satan and explain to me how I worship something that is only real for you.

I'd like to ask something on this, a few things actually.

Also, I'd like to start by saying I mean no offense and if any seems forwarded I would like to claim it upon an ignorance of which I am trying to shed myself of.

First, my situation. I believe there is a Higher Power. I do not presume to know what that Higher Power is. I do not name it, because I have no knowledge of it's name. But I DO believe there is something beyond this, something greater.

Some would call that God.

So I would like to ask... can a Mason believe in a Higher Power... but not know what that Higher Power is? Does this qualify them, in that regard?

Secondly, I get what you are saying with Satan or Lucifer. But then it seems very restrictive... because could it well not be that some feel the Bible (Old Testament) is wrong... that God is not the Creator, and that indeed in THEIR belief Satan is the Creator? In their view, would that not thus make Satan the All Mighty, and 'God' in this reference the 'Fallen' or 'Lesser'?

Which begs the questions... what defines an Acceptable 'Higher Power'?

Would Thor, King of Gods, qualify... as an example. I have a friend, and while it's probably just some BS spiel that Jacobson does... his claim is he believes and worships in Thor. That the Vikings had it right, and he's not going to be restrained by Modern Conventionalism. Now I don't know if he's truly serious about this or not... I do know he questions a lot of Modern Religion. So this could just be his 'boycott' against that, or maybe he DOES believe in a Norse Pantheon and really follows Thor.

I guess the bigger question is, does a Higher Power need to be backed by Doctrine and Scripture... or is it the Belief of the Person that gives this power?

I'll end with a personal note.

I believe, way back in Cave Men, that there was an Original Religion. That... what ever it might be... called down and chose one. And Nations rose around him. Then another was looking at the position this Man was in and thought... wow, I'd like me some of that.

To which he said "What is that, God? Me? Really? No... he's been talking to a False God? You're the REAL God! Why yes, I'll stand for you!" and thus CREATED a counter to that Religion. And ever since then, we've spiraled into this mode of Religious Creation... while the REAL Religion was lost to time. The irony here is that every one of these may possible follow the exact same God... but describe him differently and fight over these differences thus never uniting back into one TRUE Religion.

That's my view on it... that NONE of the current Religions are 'real' even if they may be close to the Truth. And that in fact they all may really be the SAME, and just unable to see past perceived and created differences that were created for Man to wrest power from other Man. We might not realize it... but with this theory... your God and my God may well be the SAME God, viewed from different perspectives.

This was super long, I apologize for that... but I'd love some clarification on these issues and hope telling you some of my personal thoughts on the matters better illustrates where I am coming from.

I'd like to ask something on this, a few things actually.

Also, I'd like to start by saying I mean no offense and if any seems forwarded I would like to claim it upon an ignorance of which I am trying to shed myself of.

First, my situation. I believe there is a Higher Power. I do not presume to know what that Higher Power is. I do not name it, because I have no knowledge of it's name. But I DO believe there is something beyond this, something greater.

Some would call that God.

So I would like to ask... can a Mason believe in a Higher Power... but not know what that Higher Power is? Does this qualify them, in that regard?

Secondly, I get what you are saying with Satan or Lucifer. But then it seems very restrictive... because could it well not be that some feel the Bible (Old Testament) is wrong... that God is not the Creator, and that indeed in THEIR belief Satan is the Creator? In their view, would that not thus make Satan the All Mighty, and 'God' in this reference the 'Fallen' or 'Lesser'?

Which begs the questions... what defines an Acceptable 'Higher Power'?

Would Thor, King of Gods, qualify... as an example. I have a friend, and while it's probably just some BS spiel that Jacobson does... his claim is he believes and worships in Thor. That the Vikings had it right, and he's not going to be restrained by Modern Conventionalism. Now I don't know if he's truly serious about this or not... I do know he questions a lot of Modern Religion. So this could just be his 'boycott' against that, or maybe he DOES believe in a Norse Pantheon and really follows Thor.

I guess the bigger question is, does a Higher Power need to be backed by Doctrine and Scripture... or is it the Belief of the Person that gives this power?

I'll end with a personal note.

I believe, way back in Cave Men, that there was an Original Religion. That... what ever it might be... called down and chose one. And Nations rose around him. Then another was looking at the position this Man was in and thought... wow, I'd like me some of that.

To which he said "What is that, God? Me? Really? No... he's been talking to a False God? You're the REAL God! Why yes, I'll stand for you!" and thus CREATED a counter to that Religion. And ever since then, we've spiraled into this mode of Religious Creation... while the REAL Religion was lost to time. The irony here is that every one of these may possible follow the exact same God... but describe him differently and fight over these differences thus never uniting back into one TRUE Religion.

That's my view on it... that NONE of the current Religions are 'real' even if they may be close to the Truth. And that in fact they all may really be the SAME, and just unable to see past perceived and created differences that were created for Man to wrest power from other Man. We might not realize it... but with this theory... your God and my God may well be the SAME God, viewed from different perspectives.

This was super long, I apologize for that... but I'd love some clarification on these issues and hope telling you some of my personal thoughts on the matters better illustrates where I am coming from.

Also, can you weigh in on what exactly 'Prince Hall Masonry' is?

I was recruited while in Iraq because I showed a lot of interest in researching Mason, I'm most interested in Scottish Rites. Prince Hall is what was 'available' in our Unit, and a LOT of our Unit were Masons (to a certain point of Fraternization in the Unit where some Mid-Level NCO's could pull 'Mason Rank' on Officers in the line of duty, a BIG no-no in the Army).

Most members were Black, which isn't an issue (I have no issue with race, I was in burning HMMWVs with people of all kinds of Races)... but I was told they are popular on a lot of Black College Campuses.

When looking into something like Masons... I look for the purest form. I'm looking for the roots. I'm not looking for what's popular on Black College Campuses... or Ivy College Campuses... unless what they have has strong ties to the Original.

So any help with this would be great.

originally posted by: KillerKell
So I would like to ask... can a Mason believe in a Higher Power... but not know what that Higher Power is? Does this qualify them, in that regard?

You are not asked if you believe in a higher power, you are asked if you believe in a Supreme Being.

Secondly, I get what you are saying with Satan or Lucifer. But then it seems very restrictive... because could it well not be that some feel the Bible (Old Testament) is wrong... that God is not the Creator, and that indeed in THEIR belief Satan is the Creator? In their view, would that not thus make Satan the All Mighty, and 'God' in this reference the 'Fallen' or 'Lesser'?

The historical Satan was created by God and is therefore not a Supreme Being.

Which begs the questions... what defines an Acceptable 'Higher Power'?

...

I guess the bigger question is, does a Higher Power need to be backed by Doctrine and Scripture... or is it the Belief of the Person that gives this power?
]/quote]

No, your belief does not need to be backed by doctrine or scripture. As long as you have belief in a Supreme Being you will qualify.

originally posted by: KillerKell

Also, can you weigh in on what exactly 'Prince Hall Masonry' is?

Prince Hall (and actual person) Masonry was started in the 1700's when black men were unable to join white lodges. Most states no longer have these restrictions and you can join either one. Prince Hall happens to be more popular in the military but you can attend any Regular or Prince Hall lodge once you join either.

When looking into something like Masons... I look for the purest form. I'm looking for the roots. I'm not looking for what's popular on Black College Campuses... or Ivy College Campuses... unless what they have has strong ties to the Original.

So any help with this would be great.

Prince Hall does some pretty realistic ritual and they have Grand Lodges that are older than most of the states in the country. Your best bet is to visit prospective lodges of both groups in your area and meet the members. Discuss with them what you are looking for and they will be open about whether their lodge is a good fit or not.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Many thanks for the replies and the enlightenment on some of these issues. It's greatly appreciated.

a reply to: KillerKell

No worries.

You may want to investigate Strict Obedience lodges or Research Lodges.

I am a member of two lodges in my state, my home lodge and a lodge that is smaller, but more interested in history and the esoteric side of Masonry (and other topics). We are required to write papers and give lectures during lodge on selected topics and ritual.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: KillerKell

No worries.

You may want to investigate Strict Obedience lodges or Research Lodges.

I am a member of two lodges in my state, my home lodge and a lodge that is smaller, but more interested in history and the esoteric side of Masonry (and other topics). We are required to write papers and give lectures during lodge on selected topics and ritual.

I didn't even know there were such types. Thank you.

originally posted by: KillerKell
I didn't even know there were such types. Thank you.

Yes, they have become more popular over the past ten years or so with several having a waiting list to get in since they only do one candidate at a time.