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Comparing The Koran to Mein Kampf

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posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Hello, ATS. In light of recent events in Libya with an American Ambassador I thought it would be nice to have a healthy discussion about the radical Muslim's book of choice. I have a heavy interest in the topic of The Koran and have found that finding UNBIASED information dissecting verses is nearly impossible. The best thing to do when researching the book is reading the arguments of both sides, then comparing them to the historical context and drawing your own informed decision. Now i'm creating this thread PURELY for information purposes, I really want to just learn more and see what others have to say about the book of The Koran. As some of you may know distinctions have been made between The Koran and Mein Kampf by Dutch politician Geert Wilders. When I went to research this idea, and all I could immediately find was a rigid fundamentalist website comparing the two books vaguely with statements such as:


Mein Kampf- States that Germans are the superior race of mankind and that Germany is destined to rule the world , and dominate all other races and nations.

The Q'uran-States that Islam and Muslims are the superiors of mankind and that Islam is divinely mandated to rule the world and dominate all other races, creeds and nations.

---

Mein Kampf-Says that the German State is to have control over every aspect of life. Says all individuals must submit to the State.

The Q'uran-Says that Islam and Sharia is to have control over every aspect of life. Says all individuals must submit to Islam.


(Given the nature of the discussion I want to state that I am ONLY looking at THESE TWO BOOKS, no hadiths, no quotes, nothing else, just the TWO BOOKS ALONE. With that being said this comparison is incorrect because NOWHERE in Mein Kampf does Hitler make a derogatory statement against homosexuals. This is a common misconception. I'm not looking at any quotes from Hitler OUTSIDE of Mein Kampf.)

I'm not sure of the origin of the preceding list (I copied and pasted from here.), but it is plain to see that it is extremely biased. I'm sure somewhere on the internet there is an article comparing verses and quotes from Mein Kampf and The Koran, but having read both books I decided to draw my own untainted unbiased conclusion. So here it is, a few select verses from The Koran which supposedly prove the preceding statements, and quotes from Mein Kampf which also support such accusations. If any of you have verses to add, contradictions, or anything else PLEASE let me know that is THE PURPOSE of this thread, I'm here to learn more and I have faith that the ATS community will help me do that.

Wilders claims that The Koran is comparable to Hitler's autobiography "Mein Kampf." Interestingly enough, this distinction between the two books has been made before by media figures like Bill O'Reilly on his show "The O'Reilly Factor" and even by men greatly revered in history such as Winston Churchill. Churchill was actually comparing Mein Kampf to The Koran instead of vice versa in his book "The Gathering Storm" he says Hitler's Mein Kampf is "…the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message."(1) In a parliamentary speech Wilders makes clear his stance: "Madam Speaker, let me start with the foundation of the Islamic faith, the Koran. The Koran’s core theme is about the duty of all Muslims to fight non-Muslims; an Islamic Mein Kampf, in which fight means war, jihad. The Koran is above all a book of war – a call to butcher non-Muslims (2:191, 3:141, 4:91, 5:3), to roast them (4:56, 69:30-69:32), and to cause bloodbaths amongst them (47:4).”(2) In order to first be able to understand how the comparison is made it is critical to understand the main points Hitler is trying to make in Mein Kampf.

Mein Kampf attempts to create a vision of Aryan dominance in the world, asserting that the Germanic race of Aryan humans is the perfect type of man and thus suited to rule the world. "Nazi philosophy by no means believes in an equality of races, but along with their difference it recognizes their higher or lesser value and feels itself obligated to promote the victory of the better and stronger, and demand the subordination of the inferior and weaker in accordance with the eternal will that dominates this universe." Hitler then goes on to dictate more about his ‘blessed’ race by saying “All the human culture, all the results of art, science, and technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the creative product of the Aryan." After unleashing rhetoric of Aryan domination Hitler mentions the enemy of Aryans, the Jewish people: "the personification of the Devil, as the symbol of all evil, assumes the living appearance of the Jew"(3)

The idea of worldly dominance by a specific race of people is favored in Mein Kampf, but the relevance of this concept in regards to The Koran is still highly debated. One verse in The Koran which is comparable to the preceding quotes from Mein Kampf is Surah 4:89: "They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper." Again, with Wilders' more radical interpretation of this verse it is simpler to draw a comparison between Hitler's glorification of the "Aryan race" and Muhammad's unrelenting faith in Allah and the people of Islam to follow him. It is also helpful to keep in mind that Mein Kampf was dictated by Hitler whilst he was prison, and The Koran was written by Muhammad through supposedly divine inspiration from Allah.

Without focusing too much attention on the globalization aspects of The Koran and Mein Kampf it may be simpler to draw
edit on Thu Sep 13 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: trimeed quote, added EX tags IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS




posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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distinctions between the two books on a much smaller scale such as the issue surrounding the treatment of women. In Mein Kampf Hitler obsessively tells readers that preservation of the Aryan race is essential to survival. In a relatively sexist outlook Hitler views women as 'passive' contributors to society whose sole responsibility is to become a mother of her warrior husband. Hitler outlines this idea when he says "But the first is and remains the creation of the possibility of early marriage, according to human nature, above all for the man; because the woman is here only the passive part, anyhow."(4) This is in reference to Hitler's views on prostitution and the abolishment of the practice, but he also stresses how it may 'save' the girl from a bleak future because it may lead to early marriages and thus more chances for procreation.

When discussing education for women Hitler asserts that academic and physical education is reserved for men only and "The goal of female education has invariably to be the future mother.”(5) Hitler presents a very obvious stance on a woman's role in society; they are to care for their husbands and raise children. The Koran has numerous verses which shed light on a woman's place in society according to Sharia Law. Surah 2:228 contains instructions for divorce in the case of a woman being pregnant, but more importantly in the verse it details the finality the word of a male has: "And due to the wives is similar to what is expected of them, according to what is reasonable. But the men have a degree over them [in responsibility and authority]. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." Surah 2 also contains another verse frequently cited as a sexist outlook on the treatment of women, it is Verse 223 in Surah 2 which says "Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers."

At first glance these preceding versions mentioned in Surah 2 certainly shed the same light on women and their place in society as Mein Kampf. Early Koranic Interpreter "Ibn Abbas" best known for his position as Muhammad's paternal cousin sheds light on Surah 2:228 which supposedly represent women as men's unequal. Ibn Abbas explains that in the verse Allah "gave the men a greater degree of responsibility over the women than that of women over men. It follows that the rights owned to the wife are nonnegotiable, whereas the husband has to give up certain rights." The explanation details how it isn't meant to delist women in their position among men but rather explaining that men have a responsibility to care for their women.(6) Dr. Zohurul Hoque best known for his translation of the Koran into different languages offers his own interpretation of Surah 2:223 by stating that the verse is merely an analogy for the ingredients of a proper marriage. Hoque says "Woman is compared with farm (harth) to illustrate physical, emotional, relational dynamics in her conjugal life with respect to her husband. Just as physical appeal, productivity and quality of the produce of a farm is dependent upon the efforts of the owner before and after cultivation as well as at the time of harvesting, so also physical, emotional and relational expression of a married woman is intimately connected with the manner her husband takes care of her in her everyday life." Yet again this verse could be interpreted to only be a heartfelt directive by Allah for men to care for their wives and tend to their marriage. Depending on which bias you decide to take on The Koran one could draw the conclusion that some verses in Surah 2 are comparable to Mein Kampf in its treatment of women and their place in the world.

One of the most debated and fierce disagreements in history are represented by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Some say that this disagreement stems from Palestinian devotion to Koranic verses which encourage hatred against the Jewish people. Hitler's Mein Kampf notoriously contains undeniable xenophobic quotes against the Jewish people. The word "Jew" is used over seven-hundred times in Hitler's Mein Kampf and is usually accompanied by a negative statement. In order to understand the full scope of Hitler's hatred of the Jews it is best to look at the most choice quotes from Mein Kampf such as: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.'"(7) And "he [the Jew] advances on his fatal road until another force comes forth to oppose him, and in a mighty struggle hurls the heaven-stormer back to Lucifer.”(8) There is also the previously mentioned quote which mentions Jews are the "Personification of the Devil."

Hitler obviously makes no effort in concealing his hatred for the Jewish people, but Muhammad



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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discusses The People of the Book (including the Jewish people) in a different manner. Surah 5:82 "You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant." For some odd reason the Jewish people are singled out amongst the other People of the Book in this verse. Apologists to this verse contend that the Jewish people are discussed in this manner because they are the ones who merely disagree with Islamic scripture the most in relation to other People of the Book.

Surah 4:160-161 presents the Jewish people of betrayers of the word of Allah, and unjust possessors of others wealth. "For wrongdoing on the part of the Jews, We made unlawful for them [certain] good foods which had been lawful to them, and for their averting from the way of Allah many [people], (160) And [for] their taking of usury while they had been forbidden from it, and their consuming of the people's wealth unjustly. And we have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (161)" Surah 5 in The Koran also contains a few verses which could be regarded as questionable in regards to People of the Book one of them being verse 51 in Surah 5 which states "O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people." This verse is referring to punishment given to the Jewish people because of their 'wrongdoings' in 'disbelieving' the word of Islam and killing their Prophet (Jesus.)

Muslim Scholars believe that Surah 5:51 is merely being mistranslated, translated properly is meant to be read as "O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust." Answering-Christianity, a leading website in answers concerning Muslim Apologetics from Christian questioning compliments the verse by stating "it is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other."(9) Surah 5:51 could also be interpreted to have a more political or tribal connotation, urging Islamic brothers to take refuge in their own tribes instead of that of others. It is very interesting to see how a single verse can be interpreted in two entirely opposite ways.

The final issue being looked at in relation to verses in The Koran and Hitler's Mein Kampf is the idea of law. In Mein Kampf believes that Nazi and Germanic law is the final answer to rules and regulations for a proper society. The Koran introduces Shariah Law as its primary vehicle in dealing with issues of public policy and justice. Hitler speaks of absolute power and governance in Mein Kampf by a strong leader "God be thanked, this is just the meaning of Germanic democracy, that no unworthy climber or moral shirker can come in the back way to rule his fellow citizens, but that the greatness of the position to be assumed will discourage incompetents and weaklings" and that the Nazi Party "must not become a bailiff of public opinion, but its ruler. It must not be the masses' slave, but their master!”(10)

The idea of a definite ruling ideal for the population is echoed in The Koran in Surah 3:110 which states "You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah. If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient." This verse could be interpreted as a calling to Muslims to regard themselves and their religion as the highest moral and legal authority. Apologists of Surah 3:110 say that the Islamic people should strive to do their best as a collective whole in order to set a good example for the rest of society.(11) Surah 3:110 ties in closely with the Islamic idea of "Ummah" which is arabic for "nation." Some believe the Ummah refers to the Islamization of the earth, or that it is simply a reference to the dispersion of Muslims within and outside of a Muslim-state.

The latter portion of Surah 5:48 mentions the law placed in Muslim hands. “To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is you



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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r return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ." These verses in The Koran and quotes from Mein Kampf aren't meant to describe the actual laws that should be in place, they are meant to convey the concept that each book puts forth the idea of an over-arching legal system which will be the final answer in regards to public policy and law. It is safe to assume that Mein Kampf is far blunter in its writing than The Koran.

There is one more verse in The Koran which I forgot which is relevant to the justification of violence. This verse is commonly known as "The Verse of the Sword" Surah 9:5. The verse states "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." This verse was infamously quoted by Osama Bin-Laden in a 2003 sermon in which he stated "Praise be to Allah who revealed the verse of the Sword to his servant and messenger [the Prophet Muhammad], in order to establish truth and abolish falsehood.” This is believed to be Islam's rallying war cry cited by Spencer to be a "favorite among modern-day Jihadists," a calling to convert or slaughter all non-Muslims or at the very least polytheists (which would also include Christians for their reverence of the "The Holy Trinity.")(12)

Muslim interpreter Muhammad Asad shows readers of The Koran that the verse "certainly does not imply an alternative of ‘conversion or death,’ as some unfriendly critics of Islam choose to assume. Asad continues his statement by saying "war is permissible only in self-defense, in accord with 2:190, and that the enemy’s conversion to Islam…is no more than one, and by no means the only, way of their ‘desisting from hostility.’" Surah 9:4 says "Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

The verse following Surah 9:5 states “And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know." Both verses preceding and preceding the infamous "Verse of the Sword" are really invitations to safety and contract terms of agreement with surrounding polytheists. It is commonly believed that influence for the verse of the sword was caused by anger from Muslims towards Polytheists for continually breaking term agreements.(13) However Surah 9:5 is interpreted does not take away from the fact that it is cited as a verse which justifies Muslim radicals and their actions.

Works Cited:

(1) Churchill, Winston. The Second World War, Volume 1: The Gathering Storm. 1986. 50. Print.
(2) Mr Wilderss contribution to the parliamentary debate on Islamic activism". Groep Wilders. 6 September 2007. Archived from the original on 14 June 2008. Retrieved 15 March 2009.
(3) Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. 1941. Print. .
(4) Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. 1941. Print. .
(5) Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. 1941. Print. .
(6) Karim, . "The true meaning (tafsir) of the 'Daraja/degree' men have above women (Quran 2:228)." Answering-Christianity. N.p., n.d. Web. 5 Sep 2012. .
(7) Hoque, Zohurul. "The true meaning (tafsir) of the ." Commentary on the Holy Qur'an. N.p., n.d. Web. 5 Sep 2012.
(8) Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. 1941. Print. .
(9) Zaatari, Sami. "Surah 5:51 examined: Don’t take the Jews and Christians as Friends?." Answering-Christianity. N.p., 26 Nov 2005. Web. 5 Sep 2012. .
(10) Hitler, Adolf. Mein Kampf. 1941. Print. .
(11) Sachedina, Abdulaziz. "The Nature of Scriptural Reasoning in Islam ." The Journal of Scriptural Reasoning. N.p., 2005. Web. 5 Sep 2012. .
(12) Spencer, Robert. "Sura 9, “Repentance,” verses 1-5." Blogging the Qur’an. N.p., 12 Nov 2007. Web. Web. 5 Sep. 2012. .
(13) Asad, Muhammad. The Message of the Koran. Kazi Pubns Incorporated, 1992. Print.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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ATS does not like Hitler and he is not to be discussed.

And if you are going to make claims about Mein Kampf then you should post quotes from the book instead of your interpretation.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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Uhhh.....did you just insult the Koran?
Just so you know, a group of "peaceful" Muslims may now be on their way to YOUR house.

Peace be upon you!
Now RUN!!!!!



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
ATS does not like Hitler and he is not to be discussed.

And if you are going to make claims about Mein Kampf then you should post quotes from the book instead of your interpretation.


ATS doesn't like anything except the truth, and that is a blatant lie.

Thanks OP for the post, quite interesting parallels between the two books, i hadn't really thought about it, also, i can now see why Islam and the Nazis were bedfellows during the second world war, they actually do have a lot in common, especially in relation to their ideologies towards the Jewish people.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
ATS does not like Hitler and he is not to be discussed.

And if you are going to make claims about Mein Kampf then you should post quotes from the book instead of your interpretation.


I hate to be the kind of person who points out something like this and uses it as an arguing point, but I feel like in this situation it is justified. It appears that you just registered for this website a month ago, I don't think it's your place to speak for the ATS community as a whole. Hitler and his ideas are discussed freely here often, and I am in no way endorsing his writings and concepts or those of The Koran for that matter.

Besides, interpretation of quotes from Mein Kampf aren't really interpretations, the ideas presented in the book are self-explanatory.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by LiberLegit

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist
ATS does not like Hitler and he is not to be discussed.

And if you are going to make claims about Mein Kampf then you should post quotes from the book instead of your interpretation.


I hate to be the kind of person who points out something like this and uses it as an arguing point, but I feel like in this situation it is justified. It appears that you just registered for this website a month ago, I don't think it's your place to speak for the ATS community as a whole. Hitler and his ideas are discussed freely here often, and I am in no way endorsing his writings and concepts or those of The Koran for that matter.

Besides, interpretation of quotes from Mein Kampf aren't really interpretations, the ideas presented in the book are self-explanatory.


One of the first threads that I looked at was a thread about Hitler. It was closed and the mod said. " We dont like Hitler at ATS. Not even a little bit. Thread closed."

There is also a warning thread made by Springer warning members not to use ATS to dicuss Hitler.

Maybe its only bad if it involves empirical history.

And again, where are your quotes? Just because you say something doesnt make it correct.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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There is a reason why Mein Kampf is a best seller in the Middle East. Mein Kampf helps support the world view of Jew haters.

Regards



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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a comparison to mein kampf including the alkoran but omiting the torah and the king james bible, is a biased comparison therefore just a demonization.

just another attack on islam

not that i have anything against attacking islam in its faults, but when i do i'm not an hypocrite.
i throw it into the same sack i throw the other two abrahamic religions and respective texts.

you know abrahamic religions, the ones who have extremist sects.

i know what is really scary about islam to some people, the fact their numbers are actually growing unlike the jews or the christians.

for me there's no way to separate the three religions, they are alike, so alike they even share the same disdain and contempt for each others faith

and this chosen people concept, i don't know who or if there are any chosen people, but those who say they are i'm pretty sure they're not.


+1 more 
posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


Way to stereotype


Do you honestly believe that the majority of Muslims hate Jews? Most Muslims do not hate Jews, there are as many Christians who hate Jews as Muslims. Anyone who hates anyone due to their religion or race is just an idiot and there are idiots of all varieties.

This is like the 4th anti Muslim thread I have seen today


For the record, I am not a Muslim (not that it matters).
edit on 12-9-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 



This is like the 4th anti Muslim thread I have seen today


Well get with it man!
You are falling behind.
We usually see several of your totally pro Jewish threads every day!


Give me a break!
You trash Christians and Jews almost everyday here!

Pot calling kettle, come in kettle.

edit on 12-9-2012 by tvtexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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Mein Kampf was boring ramblings of a man who wanted to be seen as a supreme being. Jews are not the entire concept of the book.

The Koran is various versus teaching you about the fundamentals of Islam and what it means to be a good Muslim.

The main link between the middle east and the Mein Kampf is probably the Aryan Race and its roots in Persia.



edit on 12-9-2012 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by tvtexan
reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 



This is like the 4th anti Muslim thread I have seen today


Well get with it man!
You are falling behind.
We usually see several of your totally pro Jewish threads every day!


Give me a break!
You trash Christians and Jews almost everyday here!

Pot calling kettle, come in kettle.

edit on 12-9-2012 by tvtexan because: (no reason given)


Please point out ONE instance of me trashing Judaism or Christianity.

I bet you can't.

Do you want to play for pink slips?



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by tvtexan
 





Good call....as to this thread, simply making a comparison, not trying to glory Hilter or Nazi Germany.....but if you don't like this thread, report it and let the administration decide.
edit on 12-9-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Good post.
you do know that muslims will go buy a copy of Mein Kampf !

ATS has its own Addenda.
and only to let you have the truth as they like it.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


Well if betting is ok, I accept your challenge.
Once I win you will be wearing a pink slip correct?

If I lose, please send me the one out of your closet.



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


Fist bump!
Back at you!



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Can you post which passage talks about homosexuals? I read mein kampf and didn't remember anything about homosexuals.

Remember the 'koran passage 9:11 which states the son of arabia would awaken the sleeping eagle?' Completely fake passage. I'm not saying there is no similarity to islam and mk, just saying I know of no homosexual passage in mein kampf.



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