How much of who we are is decided by us?

There are some things in life we don’t naturally get to choose. Stuff like appearances, hereditary traits, family, etc. We arrive on this planet and simply discover these things about ourselves, no choice involved. It’s just who we are from the outset. Sometimes I wonder how far this “who we are” stretches. What about everything we like and hate? I tried mooncake and discovered I liked it, tried mushrooms and discovered I hated them. Ultimately, it’s my decision what I put in my mouth and what I don’t, all our actions are decisions, but the fact that I actually liked that Ted movie I saw the other day was not my decision. It’s as if all our preferences are “already there” and simply waiting to be discovered. I, for one, can’t ever remember making a conscious decision to like or hate anything, not my tastes in music, not my clothing style, not even what gender I'm attracted to. We choose to partake in our hobbies because at some point down the line we discovered we enjoyed them. I despise racism because whenever I’ve seen instances of it, that “thing inside” told me it was wrong, something I never put there or decided, but merely discovered about myself.

Sure, you could say nurture has a part to play in shaping our personalities but to what extent? If I grew up in a gangster-ridden slum, spent all my life dirt poor and hung around kids who didn’t think much of stealing or killing, chances are all these things I’ve been exposed to could desensitize me to a life of crime, or I could be repulsed to the point I want to live a positive life, or anything in between – regardless of the decision I make, it will be based on what I discovered about myself when I was exposed to such crimes. That discovery, that “thing inside”, my internal reaction to stimuli is beyond my control, even if my actions aren’t. Even if I act against it, I’d only be “pretending” to be what I’m not.

So if that’s the case, then everything about me was never my choice to begin with? If our personalities and all our preferences are shaped by that “thing inside” then who exactly are we?

Just curious.

Thanks for reading.

reply to post by namine

i am thinking about this for months now. there is spirit, soul, body, and powers of destiny. the drive in you, the instinct, everybody is born with, is it the soul ? is this the animalistic, survival driver, the devil in each and one of us. thoughts, input, angel ? god stiring the course of fate ? are we biological machines with a divine part ? i am still confused and looking for answers.

p.s.: when i wrote this, it came to my mind, what i just typed, was it given or did i write it myself ?
sounds crazy ? i am convinced, that people who think they make decisions for their lives, with their own free will, are under the influence of one or more spiritual beings.

Originally posted by namine
There are some things in life we don’t naturally get to choose. Stuff like appearances, hereditary traits, family, etc. We arrive on this planet and simply discover these things about ourselves, no choice involved. It’s just who we are from the outset. Sometimes I wonder how far this “who we are” stretches. What about everything we like and hate? I tried mooncake and discovered I liked it, tried mushrooms and discovered I hated them. Ultimately, it’s my decision what I put in my mouth and what I don’t, all our actions are decisions, but the fact that I actually liked that Ted movie I saw the other day was not my decision. It’s as if all our preferences are “already there” and simply waiting to be discovered. I, for one, can’t ever remember making a conscious decision to like or hate anything, not my tastes in music, not my clothing style, not even what gender I'm attracted to. We choose to partake in our hobbies because at some point down the line we discovered we enjoyed them. I despise racism because whenever I’ve seen instances of it, that “thing inside” told me it was wrong, something I never put there or decided, but merely discovered about myself.

Sure, you could say nurture has a part to play in shaping our personalities but to what extent? If I grew up in a gangster-ridden slum, spent all my life dirt poor and hung around kids who didn’t think much of stealing or killing, chances are all these things I’ve been exposed to could desensitize me to a life of crime, or I could be repulsed to the point I want to live a positive life, or anything in between – regardless of the decision I make, it will be based on what I discovered about myself when I was exposed to such crimes. That discovery, that “thing inside”, my internal reaction to stimuli is beyond my control, even if my actions aren’t. Even if I act against it, I’d only be “pretending” to be what I’m not.

So if that’s the case, then everything about me was never my choice to begin with? If our personalities and all our preferences are shaped by that “thing inside” then who exactly are we?

Just curious.

Thanks for reading.

In my understanding we are life happening. Preferences, reactions, understandings everything change over a life time. However your perception of you is the one thing that is constant. That feeling that 'you' are here and 'you' are experiencing. You is just awareness focused at a special point in existence. Does this change anything. No not really everything is as you perceive, so as your perception changes so does your experience.

Just thoughts

Much love

Originally posted by namine
There are some things in life we don’t naturally get to choose. Stuff like appearances, hereditary traits, family, etc. We arrive on this planet and simply discover these things about ourselves, no choice involved. It’s just who we are from the outset. Sometimes I wonder how far this “who we are” stretches. What about everything we like and hate? I tried mooncake and discovered I liked it, tried mushrooms and discovered I hated them. Ultimately, it’s my decision what I put in my mouth and what I don’t, all our actions are decisions, but the fact that I actually liked that Ted movie I saw the other day was not my decision. It’s as if all our preferences are “already there” and simply waiting to be discovered. I, for one, can’t ever remember making a conscious decision to like or hate anything, not my tastes in music, not my clothing style, not even what gender I'm attracted to. We choose to partake in our hobbies because at some point down the line we discovered we enjoyed them. I despise racism because whenever I’ve seen instances of it, that “thing inside” told me it was wrong, something I never put there or decided, but merely discovered about myself.

Sure, you could say nurture has a part to play in shaping our personalities but to what extent? If I grew up in a gangster-ridden slum, spent all my life dirt poor and hung around kids who didn’t think much of stealing or killing, chances are all these things I’ve been exposed to could desensitize me to a life of crime, or I could be repulsed to the point I want to live a positive life, or anything in between – regardless of the decision I make, it will be based on what I discovered about myself when I was exposed to such crimes. That discovery, that “thing inside”, my internal reaction to stimuli is beyond my control, even if my actions aren’t. Even if I act against it, I’d only be “pretending” to be what I’m not.

So if that’s the case, then everything about me was never my choice to begin with? If our personalities and all our preferences are shaped by that “thing inside” then who exactly are we?

Just curious.

Thanks for reading.

Hi op, first I would like to ask you, how old are you?

I was around six when I began asking the Universe questions. Maybe I was younger, but I recall around six being inquisitive and have not stopped asking questions. It's in my view, good to seek as you learn this way.

The Universe holds many secrets, but they are not hidden, only suppressed.

I'm a seeker of truth and hold God dear to my heart, always have.

I have only pieced the puzzle together as of late regarding who Jesus is to me/ us.

Many religions speak of God and the Universe but they don't group them together. They are kept separate. the studies are kept at bay from one another. Some would say science and God are opposites but they go hand in hand!

The body is also a seperate study, but when combined, knowledge comes together and it creates a magnificent piece of Art. The prettiest picture you could imagine appears, and then life is truly had by not looking out of the eyes of the human being but by combining the wonders of the human with the spirit. Expressions of experience is had! You see it, feel it and live it with every ounce of fiber you have.

To answer your question...

I believe....

We choose our path here on earth before we ever come into union with the body as a human being/ infant.

My thoughts from there expand with all sorts of knowledge that I described above. The combination of knowledge allows a knowing, this is why Jesus does ask us to seek.

The answers we are given in this world are only half truths, Jesus tells us the way though to inner peace. When you have this knowing. This revelation it creates within your own life will then manifest in another and another life because you will be in an amazement! It will be like no other feeling you have experienced!

Words are so powerful that they take a life of their own.

This is why it is said to be careful what you ask for.

Your soul knows all of this as it has a record of all your incarnations on earth ( sunconsciois mind).

Your soul has been here many times and is trying to obtain at-one-ment. Christ hood or Christ Consciousness.

So, your likes and dislikes are more than likely a carry over from your past.

Same with your personality/ spirit. It's a carry over but you are always evolving, both physically and spiritually.

reply to post by MamaJ


I am not sure the oneness is the end of rebirth even if we are supposed to think so at this place. Yes you seek it but are you getting because you are ready for it or because it is needed at that moment and for that person? I think many times they come back. Need seem to sometimes be the key on several levels both for the single person and social grouping.



Well I remember, I remember don't worry
How could I ever forget, it's the first time, the last time we ever met
But I know the reason why you keep your silence up, no you don't fool me
The hurt doesn't show; but the pain still grows
It's no stranger to you or me

And I can feel it coming in the air tonight, Oh Lord...

IMHO ... we are SLAVES to the human condition.
We have some free will ... to pick right or wrong for example ...
But not a whole lot. I used to think just the opposite ..
But in the past 3 years I have come to this conclusion.

SLAVES TO THE HUMAN CONDITION.

I am open to anyone who can convince me otherwise.
Good discussion.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


Its not an assumption as to why I say atonement as the incarnations of Jesus elude to it.

Once you get to know Him, his .... soul/subconsiois spirit/personality and experiences/ mind on earth before and after the foundation was laid, it all makes perfect sense. It' creates more than just sense!!!

You recognize his teachings from the beginning and they evolve, however the Bible doesn't come close to giving credit for the Man, our brother, and his story. How it relates with mankind is remarkable to say the least.

Do you know the incarnations of Jesus?

Nice thoughts.

We are indeed thrown into an accidental existence. The only thing we can know for sure are our own desires and passions. What others call the soul is merely the memory we have of ourselves. The memory desires what it wishes to remember; it avoids what it wishes to forget. Simple.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by apushforenlightment

 

Its not an assumption as to why I say atonement as the incarnations of Jesus elude to it.

Once you get to know Him, his .... soul/subconsiois spirit/personality and experiences/ mind on earth before and after the foundation was laid, it all makes perfect sense. It' creates more than just sense!!!

You recognize his teachings from the beginning and they evolve, however the Bible doesn't come close to giving credit for the Man, our brother, and his story. How it relates with mankind is remarkable to say the least.

Do you know the incarnations of Jesus?

I think you are seeing Jesus and what humanity calls Christ Conciousness as the same. I think that is not 100% correct in my understanding but still it does not make much difference on that level of understanding from my point of view.

But if someone reads Buddha and Jesus and understand that it is the same source then they will probably understand nonduality better .

At higher level of understanding the separation between god, Jesus, Buddha and any other blessed one gets harder to notice since they merge into ONE source. Just because I still see myself as seperate being still does not mean I am a separate being. But it is nice that you can experiance being both separate and and limited connection at the same time. Both experiancing dualism and nondualism at the same time. God do give the most wonderful gifts sometimes.

reply to post by icepack


I thought about this too, maybe we're something separate from the physical body - we have to be if our thoughts can conflict with our instincts? Spirit/soul? Never knew what the difference is between the two. It was your decision to type your post but I believe you were influenced by something.

reply to post by IAmD1


We are life happening! I like that, never thought about it that way. We're more than just observers experiencing life taking place though. Ultimately, we make decisions based on our observations, on these preferences and reactions, and we can change our perceptions to a certain degree.

Much love.

reply to post by MamaJ


Hey, that was an interesting read, for lack of a better word. I'm 25, and I've been interested in the nature of the universe for a while, but can't say as early as 6! The universe holds many secrets, but if we knew them all, there'd be no point to living, right? I always thought religion and science are merely different approaches to trying to define the nature of God/Universe.

If we choose our paths before we get here why would any of us choose to be a stillborn? And what about animals, can we choose to be them too? I'm a little lost about your religious standpoint too. Aren't Jesus and reincarnation contradictory?

Thanks for sharing.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I have to agree with you there. Every time I think about this topic, sooner or later I wind up at this conclusion. I feel like we're here to serve the continuation of life, and everything else is just entertainment.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

I'm not so sure about the "accidental" part. The number of coincidences that would have to take place just for life to exist as we know it are phenomenal. On your other point, are you saying we're all just our memory, nothing more nothing less?

Thanks to everybody for contributing.

reply to post by namine


Great Thread!

If the OP is correct, and all we are doing is (re)discovering ourselves... Than it should be our mission to choose to Experience all we can.

"What Can Be" can't choose to be possible or impossible, it simply Is and is either known or not known.

So in a way, you are fundamentally correct that there is nothing to do but discover what you already are, which already includes what you "can be".

/salute!

An remarkably intriguing question to ask. You are certainly looking in the right direction when it comes to questioning this. This thing inside of us, is certainly us. Whether we see it that we are or not, if we could not question whats inside of us. How could we possibly question the existence of every detail in our life. It is the questioning that confuses you so much, that you are puzzled by it. The more we question the existence of this inner core, the further we go away from it.

And I quote " We cannot see our reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see."

We live in a world that rewards us for conforming to a certain role and punishes us for embracing our true selves. Most of "who we are" tends to be shaped by society and little is decided by us. Those who choose to embrace themselves truthfully are usually labelled as outcasts, black sheep, eccentrics or plain strange. Until the majority begins to live out who they really are, most people will be but a poor reflection on the sad state of society as a whole.

Hey, that was an interesting read, for lack of a better word. I'm 25, and I've been interested in the nature of the universe for a while, but can't say as early as 6! The universe holds many secrets, but if we knew them all, there'd be no point to living, right? I always thought religion and science are merely different approaches to trying to define the nature of God/Universe. If we choose our paths before we get here why would any of us choose to be a stillborn? And what about animals, can we choose to be them too? I'm a little lost about your religious standpoint too. Aren't Jesus and reincarnation contradictory?

reply to post by namine


If we knew the Universe secrets we could advance as a species/ soul much quicker!!!

The war with light and dark continues to this day and will until the children of the light remember these secrets and wake up in their physical form as man.

This is why Jesus continues to incarnate to show us the way and unlock the burden of hearts to transcend back to harmony with God as one. He is our representitive. He represents a soul, two twin souls ( male and female) and the souls of all. Words are layered in the literal, metaphysical, and spiritual. They create forms.... As the body is a form. Matter allows this on earth to be seen, however don't forget there is an unseen. All can be revealed through the spirit while in human form... It's the goal of each and all.

The different approaches have an equal amount of Words and expressions. Knowledge is obtained from words and he is the word. The words live.... They are alive and well.

A stillborn child is a soul who entered and left for the sacrifice of the parents or a close family member. We are all ( also one as individual you see as you) working together to project the reality and get back to the garden from where man began. Just as jesus, we too sacrifice. Jesus says all he does we can too.

Time is a circle. What comes around, goes around. Lets not forget the saying ( again, words expressed) history repeats itself. Remember? Seven days without meditating makes one weak. Words need to be seen for what they are.... POWERFUL when spoken. They create through the spirit!!!! This is why prayer is seen to work with many studies. Another saying.... Mind over matter. Our mind has to be over matter and be the ruler, for the mind is the builder... The creator. Our creator is thus the Universal Mind he is the all and the one.... See?

My religious stand has no lable. I'm a seeker as Jesus asked us to be. He wants us to uncover the truths that are and have been kept from us for many thousands of years. He didn't preach a religion, he taught wisdom and wisdom comes from knowledge from the Word.

Get closer to Jesus by understanding he was/ is Hermes.... Read Hermes/ Thoth.

Get closer by realizing he was also Joshua and Joshua was a psychic who helped Moses. He was Moses key to understanding however the Biblical preachers may have you believe the opposite. Never the less, read Joshua with this understanding.

Read Enoch and understand he too was Jesus.

The first man on the scene was also many who was called Adam but before the form of man was created he was first Amilius. Read about these characters..... You will see Jesus evolve!!!!

The Bible has the three layers. These matter in the physical and the spiritual.

There is a beginning to be pondered on via the mind/ conscioisness. There is at the end of earth cycle/ soul/ spirit/ mind... a revelation. This is all of mans stories, but also the individual mans stories.

Soul, spirit, and mind are three but also one and so is God as we are made in his image since the beginning of not just man, but our truer beginning when God became aware of our spirit. He then created our soul to be everlasting. The spirit in the flesh dies over time in the matter when we continuously live separated from him. This is the story of Eden, which so happened to be " east of Eden". East symbolizes the sun/ son as a life giver.

I could go on and on.... Lol.

I will let you ponder......

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion
"What Can Be" can't choose to be possible or impossible, it simply Is and is either known or not known.

So in a way, you are fundamentally correct that there is nothing to do but discover what you already are, which already includes what you "can be".

/salute!

" Just as a knowledge of the Principles of Geometry enables man to measure distant suns and their movements, while seated in his observatory, so a knowledge of the Principle of Correspondence enables Man to reason intelligently from the Known to the Unknown."

www.hermetics.org...

reply to post by MamaJ

Thank you. Spine tingle.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Thank you. Spine tingle.

Hahahahaha.... I love it when that happens!

And..... You are sooooo welcome!

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
I think you are seeing Jesus and what humanity calls Christ Conciousness as the same. I think that is not 100% correct in my understanding but still it does not make much difference on that level of understanding from my point of view.

But if someone reads Buddha and Jesus and understand that it is the same source then they will probably understand nonduality better

.

At higher level of understanding the separation between god, Jesus, Buddha and any other blessed one gets harder to notice since they merge into ONE source. Just because I still see myself as seperate being still does not mean I am a separate being. But it is nice that you can experiance being both separate and and limited connection at the same time. Both experiancing dualism and nondualism at the same time. God do give the most wonderful gifts sometimes.

Hi apushforenlightment

I agree with what you have said, I also like the way you explained it, simple words, no double speak or parables!

I believe it took the man called Jesus many lifetimes, hard work and sacrifices to finally incarnate the Christ, to become the Christ. I also believe he followed the path of the Bodhisattva.

The Christ consciousness is there for us all to attain, when we reach this level and incarnate the Christ, then we become the Christ. However this will not be easy, there are many levels of consciousness that can be worked towards and attained, but to incarnate the Christ conciousness or 'level' of the Christ is harder than I can yet truly comprehend.

The first step on this path is to look inwards, to yourself, the answers are not outside of us. Nobody can teach us the secrets of this path, they can only tell us where to look.

Gnobody

a child is birthed and discarded in a forrest. the kid adapts to his surroundings else dies out. so this time he got lucky, and a family of bears decides to take the odd-one is as their own. the child grows, growls, and loves honey. he has no language as we would understand, and no sense of morality that we would call distinctly "human".

how much of who you is determined by you? but a speck, at best.