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Like it or not, God is immoral.

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by HamrHeed
 

do you believe, you can decide your fate with free will ?



????

Can't you?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Who, if not you, can have you voluntarily repent?

Regards
DL




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by yahushuasaves
Yahweh is not immoral. He defined morality in the Torah. The breaking of His Law is defined as sin. It is a very simple concept to understand. By the way, a lot of the nations He had the Israelites kill were full blooded Nephilim, or at least had a corrupted genetic code. Re evaluate what you think you know about God, and it actually makes sense why He had them do the things that they did. The Torah is not difficult, and contrary to popular belief is still in effect. Jesus if anything made it stricter, yet would you call Him immoral? He was Yahweh in the flesh. He was before time the Son of God. Yahweh is a God of mercy and love. Yet He is holy, and thus sin must be dealt with accordingly. Like a father disciplines his son or daughter, so too Yahweh disciplines.


How foolish to take literally what the authors do not.

www.youtube.com...

Good advice there. Ask Jew.
I have a lot of respect for most of them as compared to Christians but there are always exceptions in both camps.

Regards
DL
edit on 13-9-2012 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by MagnumOpus
The immoral aspect is the lies presented for what god isn't.

God, in the original concept, is that of the force that created the universe billions of years ago and shows traces of intelligent design. No image exists for this God concept and the only one that is close is the Unverse itself.

The false concepts for god stem from more recent times in the area of Sumeria and the gods of Anu, and reference to these concepts as god is the immorality due to telling big lies. This making the entire Biblical concepts for god false and immoral.

Yahweh isn't god, and neither is Jesus.

Promotion of gods in the recent time is about promotion of Royalists and Kings, about promotion of inequality over that of equality. It is about starting wars for power and control held in the hands of the few.


+ 1

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by ahnggk
God, the Father of Jesus is not immoral.

Blame the Christians for their gross misunderstanding of God, his teachings, and the corruption of the Bible which is not part of the New Covenant.


Psalm 89 ;34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

Hebrews 8; 7
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Contradictions abound.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by ahnggk
God, the Father of Jesus is not immoral.

Blame the Christians for their gross misunderstanding of God, his teachings, and the corruption of the Bible which is not part of the New Covenant.


Blame the christians NOT. Blame the heathens. Nobody is perfect but these people who misrepresent the will of God are in their own


God is said to be unfathomable.
What can man possibly fathom of the unfathomable?

Yet all we know of the will of God has been stated by men and immoral men at that if the bible is an indicator.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Like it or not, God is immoral.

Satan is said to be "the great Deceiver"

He has had a lot of time to practice this and has become VERY good at it.


The devil or Satan is the deceiver of the whole world. ~ Revelation 12:9

He is a liar and the father of liars. There is no truth in him. He must lie and deceive to get a following. ~ John 8:44

There is a VAST Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth.

Who tricked people into disobeying God and bringing death into the world? Satan...

His first tactic is to steal. What would he like to steal?

Anything and everything that will lead you to Jesus and to Gods love.

The Illuminati (AKA Synagogue of Satan) use lies and propaganda to cause the world to believe that God is the cause of wars and death.

In reality THEY are the ones behind the scenes manipulating ALL world events.

LEARN TO THINK IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION OF PROPAGANDA...


The serpent was subtle and lied to Eve -- beguiled (deceived) her. Had Eve understood God's real love and the real consequences of obeying Satan, she would not have done it. Satan denied the consequences and made evil appear to be good. ~ Gen. 3:1-5,13

This is standard procedure for Satan. He transforms himself into an angel of light. Satan is the world's greatest counterfeiter. ~ 2 Corinthians 11:13-15





edit on 12-9-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..


Two quick question for any here.

Is justice delayed justice denied?

Should one who is condemned or found guilty of a crime or sin be let free or should whatever sentence given be applied at once?

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by akushla99


But, my short answer is NO...God is not immoral...

Satisfied?

A99


Thanks.

So all the times God is shown as either directly or indirectly killing children and babies because of what their parents have done are justified in your eyes. Right?

If you lived in those days and were asked to smash a babies skull against a rock you would would you?

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Greatest I am
 

Not being a religious man, I do agree with you.... that which humanity collectively calls "G-D" (job description, not a proper name) is in fact Immortal, but then so are all of us, after all, the supposed creations in this mix. I know for a fact that I have lived many lives before this one, and as a small child my future self visited me, the same thing happened to my son. Only the carbon based human receptacle is mortal, friend, and as you know, all things mortal follow a cycle of birth, life, and death. Humanity will always exist, the human Soul is pure energy, and impossible to destroy, so life as we know it is immortal, in that sense.


So to you, our bodies are just make work projects or a pass time for our eternal souls.
Our real consciousness would sort of view the earth as a nice diversion from boredom in heaven.
Do I read you right?

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


If "God" is immoral, that means he didn't invent morals. If he didn't invent morals, that means he exists outside of moral philosophy. So is anything related to morals is entirely up to us. Likewise, he didn't create evil or good. Which means "God" is neither good nor bad, and the same with "Satan", which he also supposedly created. So half of what people believe about "God" is based on our own inventions, and so with "Satan".

Which means that the Christians have been looking at it wrong the whole time. Way to sell them out, my friend. You're on your way to realizing the quandaries of modern religion.


That or I will show that any of his altruistic acts are self-serving.


Finally, we are getting somewhere.
edit on 12-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


The Christians have been looking at it the wrong way starting from the time they reversed the Jewish interpretation of Eden as far as I can tell.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


No, Unity Consciousness would see all the planes of being at once. Earth is like a single, average-sized neuron in a brain the size of Texas. Everything is connected on different levels and different places, and in Unity Consciousness, we can see it all.

There's technically over 100 different dimensions, corresponding with every musical scale...and while that may sound nuts, think of it this way: our entire color spectrum, our entire mathematics system, all of our geometry and music and matter, is all based on the same basic structure - the Fruit of Life.

Look it up, before you tell me I'm wrong.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
To say God is immoral is to say he exists. Which means you must prove the existence before you can move to the morality. One who has faith should never try and argue as faith is for the individual or group that believe. Once you make a claim outside of such group it becomes an objective statement being applied to others as well and requires proof or at least a more likely than not argument that outweighs what the opposer will bring to the table. The problem is those that do not believe in Gods existence have no such obligation of proof, as there would be no evidence of the lack of existence. So it would be in the best interest of the one with faith to avoid arguing their case. Pertaining to the golden rule "treat others the way you wish to be treated" has one big flaw. What about those that do not wish to be treated as you do? Shouldn't you treat others they way they want to be treated? and what if they wanted to be treated in a way that goes against your character? in either case you reach a stalemate.
edit on 12-9-2012 by g0dhims3lf because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-9-2012 by g0dhims3lf because: added clarity


FMPOV, any discussions about God's reality are speculative nonsense as we cannot prove any of our opinions until he actually shows up to confirm if we are right or not.

I did put in the O P , as described in the bible to get away from that dilemma. So your first few comments while correct, are misplaced.

I do not agree with your last.
Depending on how one sees his duty to others and friends, even something out of character can be overcome if the act is done out of love.

There are few scenarios where this might happen but here is one that I have found where I see no fault for the one going against his character. Let me know if you agree or not. It will take some rather deep thought.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by g0dhims3lf
 



Pertaining to the golden rule "treat others the way you wish to be treated" has one big flaw. What about those that do not wish to be treated as you do? Shouldn't you treat others they way they want to be treated? and what if they wanted to be treated in a way that goes against your character? in either case you reach a stalemate.


I can think of a way around that. Everyone wants to be respected, right? So if you respect others because you want to be respected, that means any problems they bring to your attention, you will try to rectify, and vice versa.

In that sense, the "Golden Rule" is perfectly sensible. After all, we do have a global definition for 'respect'.
edit on 13-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by eleven44
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


How could We, Beings so far removed from God that we see ourselves as something separate from God, possibly know enough to judge God being moral or immoral?

Everything is temporarily infinite. All That Is is a series of continuously changing circumstances and outcomes. All interrelated, all intertwined. Even 'immoral' acts cause others to take action with 'moral' acts. Many times the 'immoral' acts are THE reason for others to wake up, turn to Love, turn to God and continue to act morally towards human kind.

God Is. There is nothing BUT God. Sure, God is Immoral, but God is also Moral. God made Good. God made Bad. God made Hate. God made Love. God made You. God made Me.

All we are here for is to temporarily dance through the physical realm of God's thoughts while we obtain experiences and knowledge and work our way back from whence we came.

But for anyone (myself included) to think we have 'figured this all out,' or understand how God works...and then to LABEL how God works as 'immoral'....well that takes having your head pretty far up your own ___
edit on 12-9-2012 by eleven44 because: (no reason given)


Not a bad view.
You judge yourself separate from God where I do not because I am a Gnostic Christian but other than that we are on the same page.

That is why in the O P I stated ---God as described in the bible. We cannot judge God for the reasons you state but we can judge the God depicted in scriptures and judge that mythical God.

So, as depicted, is God moral or not?

You follow a good path now show me if you are on the right one.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


You will be judged by the standard of perfection, and will be found lacking "greatest I am"..


If by standard of perfection you mean the bible God then I hope so.

FMPOV, that is like you saying Satan will not like me. Thank the Gods for that.

You go ahead and please Satan though.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 



All those who do not understand either for lack of actually reading or the lack of intelligent discernment.

God interacting with humans? Hahahahaha..... You don't even know how and when he is interacting so how can you describe him interacting at all?

You are seeing God out of the eyes of someone else, you do not personally know him!!!!


You know no more than Greatest does. So how can you say he is wrong? Perhaps he is right, and we just don't know it? We cannot prove him wrong nor right, so there's no point in arguing, is there?

The only proof you have is the Bible, and I think we can all agree that doesn't really cut it. If the court won't accept it, neither can we.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Shouldn't the thread title specify which God?......

Surely Yahweh and Ganesha disagree on certain moral issues...

**edit: I see you mentioned 'Bible'. I assume you mean Christianity's version of God?

Immoral is an understatement that being the case.
edit on 12-9-2012 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)


Your assumption is corect.

You see 20/20.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Why be judged by the standard of perfection, when he knew from the start that we would never be 'perfect'?

We all have been told that "God" is five things: omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, loving, and merciful. The average Christian would tell us that these are the commonly accepted characteristics. So for the points I'm about to make, we are operating under the assumption that these traits hold true in the being called "God".

When "God" made hell, as he crafted each seat, he knew who would sit there and why. Yet he made no move to change that course. Not only does he know what we can do, but what we WILL do. That's the meaning of omniscience. So if he refuses to alter the future in any way, that means everyone who will ever go to hell or heaven is going there because he WANTS them to. When you are omniscient AND omnipotent, doing nothing is the same as saying, "I approve of this. Carry on." In other words, the moment omniscience and omnipotence are involved with the same being, all free will is lost. When you have the power to know everything and do anything, inaction is synonymous with responsibility.

Additionally, he creates us then holds us responsible for the flaws he gave us. Why blame us for something he did? If he was that interested in having a flawless line of servants, he could easily wind back the clock and start all over again. When you exist outside of time, that's the work of a couple seconds. Yet he chose not to. Again, he is saying "I want all of you to go through hell. I want you to demonstrate what terrors you are capable of." Either that, or he just doesn't care. Either way, that's another contradiction of "God"s supposed nature.

Similarly, when he created "Satan", that's a sign that he is capable of evil. Would an entity who is supposedly love incarnate be able to create something so foul, disgusting, and abominable? Is that logically possible? All evil and all sin came from "God". This means that either "God" is capable of evil...or he didn't create sin. After all, if he's going to introduce the two qualities that negate free will, he might as well do it so that we won't be punished for disobeying, yes? And if all he wants is to be worshipped, why even bother with free will? Otherwise, he'll only be forced to destroy his creations. He could avoid the whole ordeal by recreating his servants and doing it right this time...but no. He won't. And that means he WANTS it this way.

One more thing. In order to think, your emotions and mind must undergo change. That's what thought is, right? Mental change, mental adjustment. Eternal means unchanging. Look it up. Google the definition. Something that is eternal cannot change, and so thought is impossible for that entity. Adding onto that, "God" is shown to have changed his mind multiple times. Something that is eternal will not do that. In fact, that throws even more doubt on the omniscience claim, because someone who is omniscient would have seen that coming immediately, and therefore would never have had to change his mind.

That's 1 through 4 of my list of logical fallacies regarding the nature of "God". There wil undoubtedly be arguments, but I;m fairly certain that for the most part, I've made some very valid points. In the end, not a single one of us understands "God" as much as we pretend to, and very few understand him as much as they'd like to.

So when it is said that "God" is immoral, that's a severe understatement. "God" isn't just immoral, he is a quandary. A quandary invented by desperate men. We're afraid of our dark side, and we're afraid of what comes after death, and we're afraid of the chaos in life. So we come up with "God", who promises to save us from ourselves, promises eternal happiness in the afterlife, and promises to keep us safe from the terrors of the world as long as we believe in him.

Pure psychology and reasonable analysis tell us that despite all the positive effects Christianity or Catholicism or Baptism or Mormonism or any other Judaic/Abrahamic religion may have on our lives, it's still stolen and warped beyond recognition. But in a world where we fight to take the easy road, we'll be damned before we have to take the hard, honest road.

...pun intended.
Long story short: either he's a flawed deity, or you guys need to come up with a better story. The way you've written it, your "God" has a laundry list of character defects, and more plot holes than an empty grave yard. Some serious editing is needed if you expect to gather more followers...ones who don't go "baa-aaaaa-aaaa", that is.
edit on 12-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Ouch.
A telling blow to any so called Christian. I had to take a sentence out to be able to comment but all should be red.
Well done.

Regards DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by jeantherapy
If god exists in a conscious thinking male form like the christians portray, then I would compare him (it) to a kid putting a bunch of different fish in an aquarium who then sits back and watches them tear each other to shreds, all the while possessing the power to reach down and end the suffering but does nothing, because it is satisfying it's own morbid curiosity.


No argument so let me use this space for any who would dare challenge your logic.
You will not learn from it as you already see 20/20 but it might add another dimension.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


The most effort I've ever put into a post enumerating the flaws and errors that define "God".


It's about time people stop letting their fear control how they think...or rather, how MUCH they think.
edit on 13-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by mythos

Originally posted by Murgatroid

The serpent was subtle and lied to Eve -- beguiled (deceived) her. Had Eve understood God's real love and the real consequences of obeying Satan, she would not have done it. Satan denied the consequences and made evil appear to be good. ~ Gen. 3:1-5,13


Genesis is blatant propaganda against the female-earth based religions; it names the serpent as evil, who in most all other cultures and traditions is a revered symbol of the earth and rebirth. it blames the woman for original sin and condemns birth and menstruation as punishment for her crime. it creates a male as the first being, and woman as an afterthought. and in the greatest of all blasphemies it names God as a HE....

it is this thinking that has allowed the wanton pillaging of the earth, the countless indignities perpetrated upon women and has condemned us to this unbalanced patriarchal - "my sword is bigger than your sword" - BS we must endure everyday.

the only God that is immoral is the God that hates. i will leave that for the readers to say which God is so keen on fire & brimstone.



may the Goddess & the God & the Great Mystery beyond forgive us... for we know not what we are doing.

edit on 12-9-2012 by mythos because: fix quotes


" it creates a male as the first being, and woman as an afterthought"

This struck me and I wondered if you would like to read and contribute to this link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Regards
DL






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