Question: Inexpensive medium for storing large amounts of heat, or cold.

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by spacedoubt

 

Have you heard of French innovator Jean Pain and his compost based bio-energy system ? It could be of use to you if you have access to some excess bio-mass.

I had a rummage around on YouTube and found this video .....

. He heated water to 60 degrees celsius at a rate of 4 litres a minute which he used for washing and heating. He also distilled enough methane to run an electricity generator, cooking elements, and power his truck. This method of creating usable energy from composting materials has come to be known as Jean Pain Composting, or the Jean Pain Method.

Worth a look .

I just got a chance to watch the whole thing. Fascinating,, the length of time this was producing hot water. And the two excellent byproducts. Gas to "go" on, and compost to "grown". This would work well in the area I am talking about. Plenty of trees. One only need take a drive after a good windstorm for materials. Now we're talking the ability to make electricity too...All from a big pile of wood chips.. I think something like this would definitely become part of what I want to do.

Yet I still want to create, heat, and cold sinks underground. Even if just on an experimental level.

Thanks for showing this to me. I notice there are some related videos on YT also...I'll check those out.

Heck..The lumber companies do selective cutting up there...I could just scoop up their "tailings".

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I want to build a system for storing the Seasons.

So this is a little research thread.. Tell us what you know, or may have tried, or have simply just seen in action.
In the winter, I want to store low temperatures, for use in the Summertime.
In the sumertime, I want to store High temperatures, for use in the Winter.
Some people do it by using large water tanks, buried in the ground. Then pumping it our to the area where temperature control is needed. Some do it passively, with the water just maintaining a stable temp.
Then you add a little heat, or a little chill by conventional means..Like a heater or air conditioner.

It's not a new idea.. You just collect a large amount of your thermal storage medium, and bury it. Then run pipes though it, to transfer it to the location you want to stabilize..


But what might be the best storage medium?...Considering price, transportability, keeping it clean.

Would sand work well? Gravel? Is water the best?

It would be better if I did not need a tank. And could just run my coiled pipes in, and back out.
As much transfer as possible.

I'd also like it to be more than just passive....If it's cold outside, I really want to lower the temp of the medium as much as possible...Same thing if it's hot outside...I want to gather Hot, hot, hot...And store it in the ground.
a lot of it. For use in the WInter.

Then, there is the matter of controlling the release of the stored "Seasons"...I suppose thermostats, and smal pumps would work...


How about some ideas....I know you guys are full of them....Ideas that is..Let's keep a decently insulated room, at "room temperature" all year long...Can you do it?

By Marye Audet
Editor

Ice Houses

Civilizations have been harvesting and using ice for keeping food fresh since before Roman times. One of the earliest known ice houses is reputed to have been built in Iraq in 1700 B.C.. Thick chunks of ice would be cut from the ice that formed on lakes and ponds and taken to these structures. Icehouses were generally squat, domed buildings. The foundations were dug deeply and the walls were mostly underground. This helped the building stay insulated.

During the winter snow would be brought into the ice house and used with sawdust or straw to keep the huge blocks of harvested ice frozen. This method was so effective that the ice was often still frozen the next winter. Perishable foods and beverages would be kept in the building and chunks of ice would be chipped off to create ice cream.

As technology increased so did pollution. The clean, clear ice that may have been harvested from the local pond became tainted with chemicals and other residues. Ice began to be created commercially.

Using Antique Ice Boxes

Since it was not feasible for everyone to have their own ice house, the ice box was developed sometime between 1830 and 1840. It was little more than a wooden box with an area to hold a block of ice. Over the next few decades improvements were made to the original design.

The average ice box was made of wood. As time went on these utilitarian appliances became beautiful pieces of craftsmanship. There were often carvings and other embellishments added to the basic box.

The walls were hollow and were lined with tin or zinc. The walls would then be filled with insulation. Some of the materials used to insulate the walls of these antique ice boxes were:

Seaweed
Straw
Cork
Sawdust
Other insulating materials as available locally

Near the top of the box, in the interior, was an area to hold a big block of ice. In some models it was a tray and in others it was a wooden compartment. Later and more expensive models would have a rubber tube that was attached to the bottom of the ice compartment. This drained the water from the melting ice into a holding tank or a pan under the ice box. It was the job of the homemaker to remember to pour out the panful of water every day before a puddle formed on the floor.

For a century the ice man was a daily visitor to many homes. He would deliver ice, securely insulated in sawdust, to each ice box. This daily activity was met with delight from the local children who would take ice chips from the wagon in the summertime.

Collecting Vintage Ice Boxes

Today these vintage ice boxes are in demand by collectors everywhere. They are used as side tables, cabinets, and storage in many vintage style kitchens throughout the country. They bring a touch of the old country kitchen into the modern world.

Where to Find an Old Ice Box

You may come across an old ice box as a local thrift shop, garage sale, or flea market but it is unlikely. Generally these are snapped up by those that know their true value. More often you will find them at antique stores and auctions, or on the Internet.

antiques.lovetoknow.com...

reply to post by neotech1neothink


Your timing is impeccable..I was just discussing the Wood composting video with my wife. And one response was "what about all that food we're going to grow?".
We talked about a giant version of the icebox. piping chilled fluids, through an enhanced underground icebox.
One source of the chilling would be to continuously shovel snow plowed from the driveway, into a meltwater tank built into the walls of what effectively would be an icebox.. That cold stuff falls right out of the sky, I just have to move it. This place gets a LOT of snow totals...But it doesn't always stick around, it may only cover the ground for a few days.

On another note...I was reading up on "Geothermal Thermal Stores" Which is one of the official names of the type of system that started this thread. Yes, water is a good medium..But it turns out so is the ground. itself...Not just that standard, 50 to 60 degree temps. But people actually dump excess heat right into their local dirt., raising the temp a few degrees, for use later.. Which is good..provided not much water passes through it. Like rain, or natural springs, or shallow aquifers.

Also Water is one of the preferred mediums too. But people also use sand, and gravel. It depends on how quickly you want to harvest the heat. Water is a very good conductor of heat..Which can be good, or bad, as you may lose it too fast..

Thank you again for your post...I'm enjoying the conversation. It's gotten me thinking, and I hope others too.

double post...

reply to post by spacedoubt


Thanks for your thread. People live like ROYALTY! They take for granted the everyday LIFE SAVING kitchen and bathroom lounge appliances - fridge/freezer/cooker/washing machine/air conditioner/gas fire/electric fire/wood burners/running water/WC - that those lucky people have at their disposal. With no thought of the HISTORY and HEROIC hard work it took to bring those AMAZING inventions/creations from out of a persons mind and into REALITY!

YOU do not take these things for GRANTED! I applaud your and your partners ENLIGHTENED thoughts and INGENUITY AND INVENTIVENESS with CREATING and bringing into EXISTENCE your personal PROJECTS!

Well done with EVERYTHING! Take care.