This is why we need to pull out of the Middle East.

Remember the Camp David peace talks of 1978? Here's a little reminder:

The high point of Jimmy Carter's presidency occurred on Monday, September 18, 1978. While Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin looked on from the balcony, Carter briefed a joint session of Congress on the success of their thirteen-day summit at Camp David, Maryland. Stopping twenty-five times for applause, he described the first peace treaty between Israel and one of its Arab neighbors,

And now, just 30 years later, Egypt wants to destroy Israel again. So, what's the point???? We send our sons and daughters to die in that region, to overthrow radical governments, and it will all go to sh___ in less than one lifetime. Our kids die for NOTHING!

We have to start saying NO MORE!!! We need to get out of that region!

Camp David Peace Talks

reply to post by jiggerj


yes i could not agree more with you on that troops should only be used for defending the boarders of said country from anything hostile not wars of aggression & conquest .
the report from iron mountain by the jason group does make what president eisenhower said on his last speach to the public about the military industrial complex ring true s& f for you

There is no point at all to this madness,
everyone is a Pawn and everyone knows it.

It's best to follow the money not the pretend wars in my opinion.

for example this thread here....www.abovetopsecret.com...

I could go on and on but you will get the gist of it after reading the above thread.

Regards, iwinder

Should never have been there in the first place. I, for one, cannot wait for the USA to return to a policy of glorious isolationism and leave the rest of the world in peace. I mean that most sincerely. It will save the needless loss of many of your citizens' young lives and your taxpayers a good few quid to boot.

But we can't leave yet!! Not everyone has democracy yet.

There is too much money to be made still by the war profiteers and the banks. They have not squeezed every last penny out of the taxpayers yet.

Man your battle stations!!! We need more war! And we need it now!

Or something to that effect.

All this British & American trying to force democracy onto Muslim nations is crazy, the USA & UK have not got a democracy yet, so how can we force it on people who we hate, and always will. The only reason America wants to remove Middle East leaders is because America wants to rule the world, when, yes when Russia & China are ready America will be no more, just a very nasty smell on planet earth, just ash.

reply to post by watchitburn


Do you now something? Your response warms the cockles of my heart. It wasn't so many years ago that we, in Europe, would have believed that all US citizens swallowed the propaganda they were fed hook line and sinker. Maybe it's maturity, maybe its recent events. However, I am more inclined to believe that it is the advent of the internet that has led to a greater understanding of each other.....and of the complicity and wicked ways of our governments.

reply to post by Alternative4u


I entirely agree that we do not have democracy at home....and even if we did that we shouldn't impose it on others (that being a fascist act) However I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion that we 'hate' those in the Middle East. Methinks that exposes your own mindset rather than expressing any western idealism.

The war and occupation of Iraq was illegal and unjustified and the result is an Iraq that is much worse off now (after being 'liberated') than it was before,same in Afghanistan where the Taliban are stronger than ever,and Libya..much worse,i can only expect the same for Syria.
This bs about spreading freedom,ending human suffering and terrorism has only caused loss of freedom,increased suffering and terrorism x1000, and is used as an excuse to plunder the resources of these nations and install puppet governments more willing to bend over to western corporate interests.
If democracy and freedom,the end to human suffering and terrorism was the USA's true mission,they have been defeated on all fronts!
The conditions left in these countries ,and our loss of freedom and rights here at home,are the fault of non other than the USA,who took the responsibility of bombing these nations to make the world safer and now the world is left with this..

reply to post by jiggerj


All was fine when we kept the financial AID to Egypt and Israel going, which kept the peace going between the two and the Canal open for commerce. But then the US were accused of supporting a Dictator in Egypt and Warmongers in Israel. So the US cuts the AID to Egypt and indirectly supported the people in choosing their own type of Government [Democracy] in Egypt and WHAAMO!

Now, we get accused of supposedly supporting terrorists in Egypt that overthrew their Government and accused of turning our backs on an Allie, Mubarak.

God I love Middle East Politics.....

Originally posted by jiggerj
And now, just 30 years later, Egypt wants to destroy Israel again. So, what's the point????

30 Years of peace.

We send our sons and daughters to die in that region, to overthrow radical governments, and it will all go to sh___ in less than one lifetime. Our kids die for NOTHING!

Can you quote where our sons have died in either Israel or Egypt...

Please.

Thank you

reply to post by SLAYER69


During the days of Israeli/Egyptian conflict, the | Russians were sponsoring the Egyptians and the Americans were sponsoring the Israelis. When Kissinger/Sadat/Begin forged the Middle East peace treaty between Egypt and Israel (Camp David peace treaty) the Egyptians eventually fell under American influence, culturally, economically and militarily.

Now, following the Arab Spring there is some attempt at 'people power' in Arab states....they seek autonomy and a rejection of super power influence....more independence to a man....civil and international liberties. No different from you and I really.

Originally posted by all2human
The war and occupation of Iraq was illegal and unjustified and the result is an Iraq that is much worse off now (after being 'liberated') than it was before,same in Afghanistan where the Taliban are stronger than ever,and Libya..much worse,i can only expect the same for Syria.
This bs about spreading freedom,ending human suffering and terrorism has only caused loss of freedom,increased suffering and terrorism x1000, and is used as an excuse to plunder the resources of these nations and install puppet governments more willing to bend over to western corporate interests.
If democracy and freedom,the end to human suffering and terrorism was the USA's true mission,they have been defeated on all fronts!
The conditions left in these countries ,and our loss of freedom and rights here at home,are the fault of non other than the USA,who took the responsibility of bombing these nations to make the world safer and now the world is left with this..

As much as the Bush administration lied about the reasons for the war in Iraq, unfortunately, the United Nations AND Congress approved US military action, so it was a legal war under the rules of both of these Government bodies.

The reasons for going to war were massively illegal, but the war itself was ok.

Originally posted by christina-66
During the days of Israeli/Egyptian conflict, the | Russians were sponsoring the Egyptians and the Americans were sponsoring the Israelis. When Kissinger/Sadat/Begin forged the Middle East peace treaty between Egypt and Israel (Camp David peace treaty) the Egyptians eventually fell under American influence, culturally, economically and militarily.

Which is all Cold war related.

Now, following the Arab Spring there is some attempt at 'people power' in Arab states....they seek autonomy and a rejection of super power influence....more independence to a man....civil and international liberties. No different from you and I really.

You kind of jumped something like 35+ years there. I don't recall any conflict between Egypt and Israel in that time. Somebody asked early what was the point. I say that was a damned good run of no killing between the two. The region is dynamic.

Always has been always will be....

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by jiggerj
And now, just 30 years later, Egypt wants to destroy Israel again. So, what's the point????

30 Years of peace.

We send our sons and daughters to die in that region, to overthrow radical governments, and it will all go to sh___ in less than one lifetime. Our kids die for NOTHING!

Can you quote where our sons have died in either Israel or Egypt...

Please.

Thank you

Trolling much? I'll still answer, though.

30 years of peace. Do you think we won't send our kids over there this time if Egypt and Israel go at it? Would you want your kids to die for this?

Did I write that our kids died in Egypt and Israel, or did I write that they died in that region?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by jiggerj
And now, just 30 years later, Egypt wants to destroy Israel again. So, what's the point????

30 Years of peace.

We send our sons and daughters to die in that region, to overthrow radical governments, and it will all go to sh___ in less than one lifetime. Our kids die for NOTHING!

Can you quote where our sons have died in either Israel or Egypt...

Please.

Thank you

Easy. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by babybunnies


Well that's out of context but let's run with it....

You do realize the USS Liberty is believed to be by many as a US/Israel False flag operation [Which went totally wrong] which the then POTUS LBJ himself cooked up to get the US involved in the [Pre-Camp David accords] days of conflict in the region?

Originally posted by jiggerj
Trolling much?

So, simply replying to your thread is trolling.

pffft...

I'll still answer, though.

This should be good.

30 years of peace.

Yes it actually was a bit longer but we'll go with your numbers for argument sake

Do you think we won't send our kids over there this time if Egypt and Israel go at it?

I don't do predictions.
Riddle me this, in those previous 30 have we?

Would you want your kids to die for this?

That would entirely be up to him [if he were still in the service] in this hypothetical scenario. However to be fair my son has already served in Iraq and is out of the service and is home back at University.

Did I write that our kids died in Egypt and Israel, or did I write that they died in that region?

But the topic was Egypt and Israel.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I will say that the op is being slightly provocative in claiming that Egypt now want to destroy Israel ( and can only assume that claim arises from the current assaults on the US Embassy due to to some daft film). A few eejits do not equate to a country.

I cannot agree with your assertion that the Egypt and Israel situation is a dynamic one....and always will be. They have been subject to outside influence with ulterior motives and vested interests entirely unrelated to the citizenry....and wholly related to maintaining status and power. I firmly believe that had this region been left to its own devices over the course of the 20th century there would have been relative stability with or without camp david's chit chat.

Originally posted by geobro
reply to post by jiggerj

 

yes i could not agree more with you on that troops should only be used for defending the boarders of said country from anything hostile not wars of aggression & conquest .:

Just one question - from what fountain of experience and/or training would these "defense of the homeland only" Soldiers draw their expertise in the profession of arms?

It is a fact that these smaller wars of "aggression" as some term them are a necessary and integral part of a national defense strategy. Battalion and Brigade Commanders don't fall out of the sky ready to fight a win wars. They need to see and do things as Lieutenants and Captains so that when/if we ever do need to "defend the homeland" we won't get our asses handed to us.

Modern warfare is a damn sight more complicated than "pick up your rifle and have at'em boys". Used to be that was fine and enough. However, now we have to have a proving ground for our tactics and techniques and equipment and even our leaders. One cannot "learn" to lead from a book.

So some will die - it is the nature of the beast that is national defense. Those who serve now are all volunteers and they take the oath freely knowing that warfare is their profession. They accept they might die.

These men (and women) who make this sacrifice now are paying forward all the potential losses (in untrained draftees) we would suffer if we had to suddenly defend our borders in the event of a major attack from abroad with an untrained, Army, staffed with untried leaders, using unproven equipment.

All they want is a decent wage and a chance to practice their chosen profession. It's not for everyone.