Curiosity Just Went Through Mud?, page 5

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reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:40 PM by Ear-Responsible

Im confused as to why this is a huge deal?

Does the OP think there is no moisture on Mars??

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:46 PM by Dustytoad

Originally posted by Ear-Responsible
Im confused as to why this is a huge deal?

Does the OP think there is no moisture on Mars??

If the OP is correct, then there is more widespread water on Mars than there is thought to be. This would mean a lot as far as future colonies there, or for finding life...

Generally it is accepted that there is no liquid surface water. The OPs pics suggest liquid water.

Or am I wrong about these things?

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:46 PM by Char-Lee

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Dustytoad

Yes.
That means that an electrostatic charge can build up instead of discharging into the atmosphere.

No irony. It is very dry. Static electrical charges build up.

edit on 9/11/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Why all the argument when NASA said...

NASA Spacecraft Confirms Martian Water, Mission Extended07.31.08

The soil sample came from a trench approximately 2 inches deep. When the robotic arm first reached that depth, it hit a hard layer of frozen soil. Two attempts to deliver samples of icy soil on days when fresh material was exposed were foiled when the samples became stuck inside the scoop.

www.nasa.gov...

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:49 PM by SLAYER69

reply to post by Larry L

S & F

I haven't read the whole thread yet just the first couple of pages. I have to say that's a cool catch. I know somebody over at NASA sees it as well. Have they released any info yet?

Anybody who has ever gone Quading at a seaside dunes knows what that is.

edit on 11-9-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:50 PM by juleol

I dont get why so many people are skeptical about water on mars. This already happened to spirit rover and was even suggested by nasa that one of the theories could suggest it was sand mixed with brine.
This could form "mud" like we see in those pictures.

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:54 PM by rigel4

Can anyone give a brief summery on the thread, i agree that the tyre tracks look damp
as does the sand stuck to the tyre.

Has there been any update from NASA about it?

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:56 PM by Dustytoad

Originally posted by juleol
I dont get why so many people are skeptical about water on mars. This already happened to spirit rover and was even suggested by nasa that one of the theories could suggest it was sand mixed with brine.
This could form "mud" like we see in those pictures.

Brine being salt water yes?

the archetype of the "DEAD" planet is a strong one.

Yes it's pretty dead, but it's not dead dead, haha.. Of course NASA will always make understatements.. It's just like my uncle who worked on Nuclear subs and Sidewinders.. (and many other "things") You always have to understate everything. Then you always get to impress whoever signs your paycheck next go around.

Originally posted by rigel4
Can anyone give a brief summery on the thread, i agree that the tyre tracks look damp
as does the sand stuck to the tyre.

Has there been any update from NASA about it?

I have read every post. That's basically it.

edit on 9/11/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 12:59 PM by rigel4

reply to post by Dustytoad

Thanks...

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 01:03 PM by xXSvenXx

Im surprised no one has commented on what looks like a tear on the wheel.
Or is it just sunlight?
Also some dents in the wheel?

edit on 11-9-2012 by xXSvenXx because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 01:12 PM by detachedindividual

I think we have to remember that this is an alien planet, and this is the clearest imagery of the planet we have ever seen. While I agree that there is a color change there, and on Earth such a change might indicate moisture, this is not Earth, it's Mars.

You don't know the composition of that dust, you don't know what the behavior and movements of the Rover have been, you don't know wind patterns, you don't know whether particles there hold some charge and therefore create patterns that could be deceiving...

There are a lot of unknowns here, and while it might look damp to us, it really might not be.

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 01:14 PM by powerdrone

My wife had a thought. Is there any chance that the rover creates condensation of some kind or ejects any kinds of fluids or oils that would then be run over? (If it has condensation then it's still moisture but just a thought)?

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 01:33 PM by Phage

reply to post by Dustytoad

Yes, JPL has noticed.

Curiosity's front Hazard-Avoidance cameras appear as a set of four blue eyes at the top center of the portrait. Fine-grain Martian dust can be seen adhering to the wheels, which are about 16 inches (40 centimeters) wide and 20 inches (50 centimeters) in diameter.

photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov...

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 01:33 PM by Holosapien

Yes there is 'water' on Mars with some parts of Mars interior as wet as Earth's. So it shouldn't be much of a surprise that 'water' maybe be squeezed out of the soil by the weight of Curiosity as it rolls through the Planet as it happened with Spirit a couple of years ago.. In addition to this it is very possible that salty deposits on Mars' soil are collecting moisture from it's atmosphere.

The MSL (Scarecrow Rover, which weights the same as the real rover on Mars) mobility test performed in Dummont Dunes in the Mojave Desert. (The nearest thing on Earth as those dunes on Mars) do not show any material getting stuck on the wheels.

YouTube Link

Whether is 'water' or not, there is definitely something causing this to happen and we've seen it before with Spirit around Gusev Crater.

So please don't bash the OP for the thread title. Instead contribute to the discussion in an intelligent manner.

This brief Q&A should she some light about the 'moist'

QUESTION: I have looked at the soil and rock analysis, however there is no mention of moisture/water content of soil. In one of the color photos of the rover with its wheel tracks going from the lander to Barnacle Bill and Yogi (photo #82018), it looks as if the soil is quite moist. Is this moisture or not?

ANSWER: While there is considerable water in the Martian soil, I would not call the
soil "wet". Rather, the water is most likely in two forms--chemically bound
water (water of hydration, chemically bound to the minerals) and physically
bound water. The physically bound water, also known as "adsorbed" water,
consists of water molecules attached to the soil grains by van der Waals
forces.

Full Q&A here

Hope this helps.

-Cheers

edit on 11-9-2012 by Holosapien because: ABC

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 02:05 PM by Phage

reply to post by Holosapien

So it shouldn't be much of a surprise that 'water' maybe be squeezed out of the soil by the weight of Curiosity as it rolls through the Planet as it happened with Spirit a couple of years ago..

Can you provide another source for that...other than space.com?

(The nearest thing on Earth as those dunes on Mars) do not show any material getting stuck on the wheels.

I don't think the sand of Dumont Dunes is really much like the dust that Curiosity is driving across now. Not to mention that the atmosphere is quite different.

From the Q & A you linked:

There is not enough water for the soil to be considered "moist".

So, what are the tire tracks? Most likely, the wheels disturb the soil and roughen it up. This exposes material underlying the surface. The surface probably has some bright dust on it, so this exposes a darker, subsurface crust of material. The same thing happens in my garden when I take smooth, well-tamped, soil, and break it up with a hoe--the newly roughened surface is darker.

quest.arc.nasa.gov...

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 02:12 PM by dcmb1409

I sent an email to an Astrobiologist at NASA from the "Ask NASA a question" site. Asked if electrostatic, moisture,or something else causes soil to stick to the treads of all of the rovers. Will post their reply when I receive it.

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 02:16 PM by ninepointfive

yep - that's very fine mud particles sticking ever so much on the tire because of a small amount of MOISTURE there which will allow that to occur.

This fro experience based on observations of riding in the desert on a number of occasions. There must be a lot of people who never get outside all that often who would think that's not what's happening here.

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 02:30 PM by Consequence

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I haven't read the whole thread yet just the first couple of pages. I have to say that's a cool catch. I know somebody over at NASA sees it as well. Have they released any info yet?

No, because there is nothing to report.
You'd need "mud" for that.

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 02:33 PM by nfflhome

Larry nice op. Looks like damp soil stuck to a metal wheel.
Ever so slight but never the less. Keep your eyes open.

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 02:44 PM by SaturnFX

I see what you mean ops.
It would seem to me that even dust sticking would require some moisture (not much). Would like to see the moon buggy tires and how caked up the moon dust was for comparison.

But, anyhow, even if its full mud, is moisture in the atmosphere a question? thought it was determined there was plenty of water on mars in some form, be it ice or simply percipitation.

reply posted on 11-9-2012 @ 03:03 PM by Phage

reply to post by SaturnFX

Would like to see the moon buggy tires and how caked up the moon dust was for comparison.

The lunar vehicles had flexible mesh tires. Plenty of adhesion on the hubs though.

thought it was determined there was plenty of water on mars in some form, be it ice or simply percipitation.

Not plenty, not at the surface. But water ice was found in the north polar region by Phoenix. No precipitation has been found (not any reaching the surface anyway).

edit on 9/11/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)