Prehistoric man – Azores?

I'm posting this one because I'd really like to get those who have a more in depth knowledge on the known and accepted history of the Azores to chime in on what they think of this possible discovery. I know if this is true it has the possibility of opening up some other theories about just how far Ancient man could have sailed in Prehistory...

It's not the greatest translation and kind of hard to read and follow in parts

Prehistoric rock art found in caves on Terceira Island – Azores

The president of the Portuguese Association of Archeological Research (APIA), Nuno Ribeiro, revealed Monday having found rock art on the island of Terceira, supporting his believe that human occupation of the Azores predates the arrival of the Portuguese by many thousands of years, Lusa reported.

“We have found a rock art site with representations we believe can be dated back to the Bronze Age,” Ribeiro told Lusa in Ponta Delgada, at a presentation in University of the Azores on the topic of early human occupation of the Azores.

The oldest cave art known in Europe is of prehistoric origin, dating back to approximately 40,000 years ago. In the last three years, Ribeiro has been claiming that archeological remains of structures discovered on several Azorean islands are of pre-Portuguese origin by its architecture and construction.

“We have an epigraph from Roman times, according to two scientists who were invited to interpret the inscription, a cave art site, megalithic structures, and an important set of structures scattered throughout the islands that need to be interpreted in new ways,”

Thoughts?

reply to post by SLAYER69

Thanks for sharing that, what is amazing is how come they can take so long in letting us know what has been in place for such a long time.I will be happy to see what comes out of these digs. Its such a hidden place, who knows what has been removed Whatever is going on they certainly are not scared of letting the cat out of the bag.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Thanks for sharing that, what is amazing is how come they can take so long in letting us know what has been in place for such a long time.I will be happy to see what comes out of these digs. Its such a hidden place, who knows what has been removed Whatever is going on they certainly are not scared of letting the cat out of the bag.

The implications of this evidence lends to many theories.

How did these people get there? How long have the been there? Did they arrive by boat?

The article says it the 4th or 5th century bc. Makes me wonder which continent they came from, Atlantis America or Europe.

One thing is for sure there is a history to this earth that we have completely forgotten. Man and his many various forms have been intelligently living on this planet for over 100 000 years. Just because we don't find steel ships and computer chips does not mean a great sea faring ancient civilization didn't exist.

England, France all surrounding areas, so why not?

reply to post by zonetripper2065


France has been connected to the continent and the UK was separated after the last of the ice melt off. Are you saying man has been on the Azores that long? Possibly getting there by walking on ice? I've never read anywhere yet where the ice cap got that far south

Interesting is that the article says that the monuments are like the archipelago ones and I immediately thought of the Guanches

(also: Guanchis or Guanchetos) is the name given to the aboriginal Berber inhabitants of the Canary Islands. It is believed that they migrated to the archipelago sometime between 1000 BCE and 100 BCE or perhaps earlier. While it is generally considered that the Guanches no longer exist as a distinct ethnicity,[1] traces of their culture can still be found intermixed within Canarian customs and traditions, such as Silbo, the "whistled language" of La Gomera Island.

en.wikipedia.org...

These could be the ancient sea kings of old.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Great contribution I was hoping somebody might bring up that possible connection
Interesting correlation which just adds to the mystery

Just wanted to add something I read recently to your thread. It just goes to show how little we know about what ancient man did and when they where occupying certain areas. Discoveries are amazing.

From an article entitled "Caves of Nerja Contain Earliest Human Drawings" scitechdaily.com...

New dating tests have proven that drawings from the Caves of Nerja, in Málaga, Spain, are the oldest paintings in the world made by humans. The pictures apparently depict seals and were painted more than 42,000 years ago, making them the first known cave paintings created by Neanderthals. Before this discovery, the drawings made about 32,000 years ago in the Chauvent-Pont-d’Arc Cave in the Ardèche department of southern France, were the considered the oldest. However the new tests, dating the charcoal that was found next to the Nerja cave paintings, dates them somewhere between 42,300 and 43,500 years old

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


Thank you.

You know, the first year of my membership I got blasted in a thread once by another older member for suggesting Neanderthals were responsible for some of the earliest cave art. It's great to see how our understanding of those periods have changed

reply to post by SLAYER69


Its unfortunate that the media has brainwashed the concept of the "cave-man" and the "club" scenario into people's minds when in regards to Neanderthal. Since they where the first to create musical instruments, first to bring flowers to graves, and now first to draw artwork on walls, it just goes to show they where far more intelligent than man is ready to admit.

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


I've written about the possibility that some may have even been responsible for some the earliest megalithic standing stones and such [Pure speculation] I admit but still a fascinating possibility

reply to post by TheSparrowSings

Thanks for sharing that about the "cueva de Nerja" I have been in to that cave quiet a few times. It is a very public cave, so tours go down there and not only that sometimes there are concerts also.The things is are we seeing everything? I doubt it.
Also a two and half hour drive in Ronda closer to the Atlantic, there is another cave "cueva de la pineta" I went in there and the was something special about it for me. It might of been the fact that, the entrance was so small and the caverns inside were so magnificent. Nerjas cave is next to the sea and Pineta is high up in the mountain.The guides where two men, one at the begging of the line the other at the end. They lived nearby, the guard told me that his father used to be the guide also. " In the days when they first opened up the cave, specialist from all over the world were poring in to inspect this cave." his father had said." His feeling is they had to be something very special in there for these scientific people to be showing such an acute interest." He commented to his son. There were areas where, one was not allowed to enter that dove down deeper. My guess apart from the great art, there would have been revealing bones in the lowest parts, perhaps some artifacts also. Maybe one day they will tell us some more, some more about those who painted the goat.


Here is a video of what can be seen in the cave at the present moment.

Are you guys familiar with the work of Genevieve Von Petzinger? She has linked cave art to the earliest human writing. It's absolutely mind blowing stuff.

You can see hints of the writing she is referring to in the video that is posted just above this post (and also, did anyone notice that dinosaur looking thing at 0:13?!)

reply to post by YoungSoul
thanks to that looks like an interesting view, will see what she has to share. Here is a link about her.
heatherpringle.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> Genevieve Von Petzinger

v

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I'm posting this one because I'd really like to get those who have a more in depth knowledge on the known and accepted history of the Azores to chime in on what they think of this possible discovery. I know if this is true it has the possibility of opening up some other theories about just how far Ancient man could have sailed in Prehistory...

It's not the greatest translation and kind of hard to read and follow in parts

Prehistoric rock art found in caves on Terceira Island – Azores

The president of the Portuguese Association of Archeological Research (APIA), Nuno Ribeiro, revealed Monday having found rock art on the island of Terceira, supporting his believe that human occupation of the Azores predates the arrival of the Portuguese by many thousands of years, Lusa reported.

“We have found a rock art site with representations we believe can be dated back to the Bronze Age,” Ribeiro told Lusa in Ponta Delgada, at a presentation in University of the Azores on the topic of early human occupation of the Azores.

The oldest cave art known in Europe is of prehistoric origin, dating back to approximately 40,000 years ago. In the last three years, Ribeiro has been claiming that archeological remains of structures discovered on several Azorean islands are of pre-Portuguese origin by its architecture and construction.

“We have an epigraph from Roman times, according to two scientists who were invited to interpret the inscription, a cave art site, megalithic structures, and an important set of structures scattered throughout the islands that need to be interpreted in new ways,”

Thoughts?

I would say it's almost a certainty that there were Bronze Age people who reached the Azores. Several Minoan shipwrecks have been found which contained copper ingots whose specific mineral content indicate that they could have ONLY come from the Great Lakes regions around Wisconsin and Michigan.

Likewise, there have been several anomalies in the DNA markers of the native Indian tribes around this region in which they share an inexplicable lineage to the ancient Mediterranean populations.

Likewise, here's another way to look at it. If homo erectus somehow made it by boat to Papua New Guinea and then split into the "hobbits" (homo florensis)...why would it be so weird to think homo sapians could have traveled a similar distance with the benefit of metal tools and sails? Although, in fairness please note that I have absolutely zero knowledge of maritime navigation and/or oceanic currents...perhaps the Azores are much more difficult to reach because you have to work against current? I have no idea...but from an armchair perspective I would actually be more surprised if there WASN'T evidence of prehistoric or bronze age peoples inhabiting the isles.

Correct me if I am wrong....but why would man not have been in Portugal as early as man was in the rest of Europe? As I understand it, Portugal was a last stronghold of the Neandertals toward the end of their decline. However, if man and Neandertal were friendly enough to interbreed, why would they not have a few of the other living with or near the other?

One of the things that is annoying about science is the amazement and wonder shown at what, to common laypeople like me, seem to have been obvious and wholly predictable.

While I do believe that humans may have traveled there (but not established a civilization there) before there was a written history of the era (in other words, "prehistoric" as it is often used by historians) I did note some things that made me... not embrace the stories wholeheartedly.

* all the discoveries are coming from the same person and same group.
* this is a small group with an important-sounding name
* a number of the newspaper stories are in error (the Sunni did not exist before 700 AD)
* there are no photos (that I can find) which show the sites and material
* Portugal owns the islands and the researchers are proud Portuguese nationals.


The group of researchers is young and idealistic: (see news story)

They don't have a lot of experience on digs and they haven't spent a lot of time learning how to evaluate artifacts from different cultures. They do appear to be "rebelling against regular archaeology" which doesn't want to listen to their theories (this is usually a case of: they showed it to someone who actually knows about this stuff and the scientist said "no, that's not what you think it is." They apparently got angry when they were told that there was another explanation for their wonderful find and it wasn't the explanation they wanted.)

So they've been making these claims for years but I'm not seeing any evidence that they know what they're talking about.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Correct me if I am wrong....but why would man not have been in Portugal as early as man was in the rest of Europe?

In fact, that's one of the sites that shows interbreeding between h. sapiens and h. neanderthalis. So, yes, h. sapiens was all over northern Europe for quite a long time.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Correct me if I am wrong....but why would man not have been in Portugal as early as man was in the rest of Europe?

In fact, that's one of the sites that shows interbreeding between h. sapiens and h. neanderthalis. So, yes, h. sapiens was all over northern Europe for quite a long time.

Not to be picky, but Portugal is most definitely Southern Europe, not Northern.

I think your post above this contains large elements of the truth here but it would be good to be wrong as that would mean more for us all to explore!

I have to say, if early man did manage open ocean navigation, then the Azores would certainly have been hit by at least one group.