reply to post by longlostbrother
I never said the workers' conditions at the time of the industrial revolution was slave labor, just that it was the outcome of no regulation,
something Libertarians believe in, explicitly.
They believe that laws that are "forced" on workers are wrong... that includes worker protection and the minimum wage.
You are talking to me, after calling my opinion BS. Stop pulling "libertarians" into this. It's pure nonsense and a constant deviation of the argument
Even so, what you said is wrong. I'm not even going to bother searching for more sources to back my claim because you don't even care to read them.
Workers FOUGHT (as you said) (...)
I didn't said it. History did. The same History you keep talking about.
(...)for workplace safety standards and a minimum wage... owners have fought since... well basically forever, against these measures.
If you are ACTUALLY pro-worker, you're pro-minimum wage, etc.
Business owners don't fight over safety standards and minimum wages. They fight over profit margins. Some accept to give away millions away in safety
and insurance because they can. Others have small profit margins and don't - or can't - enforce those policies. There are even those who are in such
bad shape they can't even make a profit, let alone afford those safety standards.
That's why protective laws exist. To make sure that a business has the minimum requirements in order to function safely, for their wealth and the
health of the workers that are dependent on their ability to lead the business.
That, has nothing to do with economy legislation that is so dumb that forces large companies to think it's better to go outside of the US for
production, instead of staying here and promoting their own backyard.
There was a time in US where the bigger consumers of the major companies were often the same people who worked there, and their families.
Libertarians, at the behest of the owners, would roll back those protections... via the government.
There you go again, replacing words and concepts where it fits your belief and opinion.
Removing business limitations inside
the US doesn't force companies to take away protections to workers. It actually enforces them. A healthy
business can pay more to their workers, which in turn are happy and function better, which makes a better final product and even raises local
Workers WANT protection, a working wage and job security.
Owners want to maximise profits.
You note that WORKERS never push to ship factories overseas...
Why would they? Unless they want to work outside of the US for the sightseeing, I don't see any reason to leave their home and families behind.
It was the constant pressures on big corporations to do this, and do that, - again, not related to worker safety - that forced them to go away.
Instead of promoting growth, we promoted restrain and governmental involvement in everything.
They didn't left because they had to make workers happy. They left because they were being castrated gradually. Greed helped them make the decision to
Supervision is not the same as involvement, and the first is more economical sound than the second.
You then say, well ok, there's slavery in the US, but it only affects migrant labour... but again, who hires them? US Agri-giants. US
Corporations that CAN because the laws aren't enforced.
The exploitation of immigrants inside the U.S. is exactly the same system that exploits slave labour overseas. The reasons are also the same: too many
and too heavy laws. Laws that don't protect anything in reality.
My evidence? Unemployment. Overprotecting did a lot for americans. Sadly it wasn't a lot of good
You seem to think that somehow removing the unenforced laws would in fact stop them from using slave labour... how that would happen requires
Libertarians to fall back on, purely, ideology, as they have no historical precedents.
You assume a lot.
And again, you keep talking about libertarians...
Finally, you go on and on about history, but never explain how any of it ACTUALLY justifies your believes.
I'm not here talking about my beliefs. You are.
And I also didn't brought up History. You did, calling me ignorant. It's not my fault your own arguments obliterated your opinion.
Because history shows that WORKERS want the government to protect them.
Workers protect them-selfs.
Business OWNERS want to maximise profits by endangering and abusing workers.
Yes, because we all know you can make a fortune by paying insurance and compensation for injuries.
edit on 11-9-2012 by GarrusVasNormandy
because: (no reason given)