Sleep Paralysis: Can it have a demonic aspect to it?

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by TucoTheRat
I'll discuss Venus, even though you're just grasping for straws here.

The reason we can know what a planet's surface will be like, is through studying similar conditions on Earth or in labs. You do not have to actually see Spain to know what Spain looks like. If you understand the climate, the topography, and the cultural evolution which occurred in the area you can grasp an adequate picture of Spain's current appearance.

This is the same way NASA figured out how to safely send a man into space, and then to the surface of the moon, without ever having been in space to know what conditions up there were like. They studied the layers of the atmosphere, and made theories based on our understanding of space. Then, they tested those theories numerous times with experiments, and concluded they were right.

That's how space travel was born.

That's how we can safely discuss the surface of Venus.

Science is able to use it's understanding of one subject to help our understanding of another subject advance. That's how science works.

Science is a great tool to help us understand the mechanics of things we do not understand like gravitational phenomena.

How many rockets exploded on ignition the first thousand times they tried to send a rocket into the air?

Why did they send a Dog then a monkey into low orbit before a human?

Why did we go to the moon over and over again and why are we at mars with our third land probe instead of just ignorantly passing links on the internet to each other about them?

Because we don't know, that's why. we will never know and every time we learn a little a thousand more unknowns will pop up for ever and ever and ever. That my friend is Science, understanding that we don't know and wanting to learn more about what we don't know is Science. get that through your blind, closed minded, dogmatic head!

There are many, many things we don't know about the moon and we have already been there, there are so, so many things we don't know about the very Earth you live and breath on and your going to sit here and tell me we know what's on Venus and then call me Stupid because I pretty damn sure that we don't?

You want to know who the real Scientist on this Earth are? Two year old children are the only Real scientist on this Earth because they are the only ones who ask "why?" and when given an answer they again ask "why?" and they would do this forever and ever if not for ignorant, blind, closed minded parent that say "Because!".

You when you were a small child had the right Idea about science, but now you are as unrecoverable about what the magnificent tool science is as the dogmatic, blind, close minded Scientist that killed your scientific spark and made you believe you KNOW anything about anything.

You Sr. or Madam have not a flipping clue of what science is and once you drop your Ego you will discover it again.

I'm done with this debate [snip]

Damn right you are! so don't try to tell me you or anyone else knows about Sleep paralysis. Or at least have the double-damned common sense to admit we might not especially when Science has the decency to do it for you.

The Rat.

reply to post by TucoTheRat


Oh, look at you, replying like you've still got a leg to stand on!

It was spirituality and religion which said the Earth was the center of the Universe. You know, the idea that God made the Earth, and specifically made us. That's how astrology and other spiritual sciences work: the Earth is the center, and most important portion of the Universe.

It was science which put forth the heliocentric theory, suggesting we were just a single blue spec in a vast array of emptiness, lit by a tiny yellow fireball, dwarfed by the dark expanse of existence. This is how we got astronomy and astrophysics.

So, not only are you anti-science, and hypocritical—using the advancements of science every single day of your life—but you're also one of the history revisionists!

Have fun in your little wonderland! Good luck making a computer work without science!

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by TucoTheRat

 

Oh, look at you, replying like you've still got a leg to stand on!

It was spirituality and religion which said the Earth was the center of the Universe. You know, the idea that God made the Earth, and specifically made us. That's how astrology and other spiritual sciences work: the Earth is the center, and most important portion of the Universe.

It was science which put forth the heliocentric theory, suggesting we were just a single blue spec in a vast array of emptiness, lit by a tiny yellow fireball, dwarfed by the dark expanse of existence. This is how we got astronomy and astrophysics.

So, not only are you anti-science, and hypocritical—using the advancements of science every single day of your life—but you're also one of the history revisionists!

Have fun in your little wonderland! Good luck making a computer work without science!

~ Wandering Scribe

Good luck turning science into just another religion or cult. But I guess you can do that since you know what SP, gravity and new elementary particles are, so many things science does not.

The Rat.

Wandering Scribe...

I believe you do not understand me, otherwise you would not continue to tell me that what is seen in SP is not real.

Ofcourse it is real, how can it not be?

It is not something I conjured up out of thin air, these things are actually seen and experienced during SP episodes. They came from an involuntary response, regardless whether anyone thinks they are from an outside source or a product of our own brain.

They were not voluntarily brought into an interaction with SP sufferers. The only way they would not be real, in this context is if the story about their existence in SP were a total work of fiction, used to tell an uncommon stary or fair-tale.

Because these sights and emotion are experienced by the SP sufferer, then they are undenialy real.

It does not take a 3rd party perspective, agreeing the visions are real/fake to establish them as a truth for the experiencer. The only perspective that matters is the 1st person perpective.

If it happened to them and they can recall it with great detail, then it is real - even though it does not exist in the physical reality you and I share... To claim that these things are not real, in the context I suggest, would be to call everyone a liar who has ever seen them.

The creatures realy exist within the SP realm, therefor they are indeed real, just not the tangible, material real that many people believe to be the only place where things exist...

The experiences within SP and OBE happen within the mind itself - do you know what else happens within the mind itself?... Everything.

The stars you see at night exist inside your mind... for that matter every single thing you will ever be aware of - and even many things you are unaware of - all happen within the mind.

The emotions and visions of SP are as real as anything else in waking reality - except you can't be injured from any contact or other physical ailment while in SP or OBE.

Given that everything takes place within the mind, from material reality, to dreamland and what many call 'Astral Plane', we could go as far to say we have super powers in those states of consciousness...

We are unable to be physically harmed, we can manipulate seemingly real material objects in the dream state, we can conjure anything we please into existence, we can fly, read minds, etc... and it ALL takes place where everything else goes on - our minds.

Having all these super powers would be a wish for many people, but when they are presented in this fashion they are not good enough. They need those abilities in waking reality... but maybe waking reality would become just a fleeting as dreamland, OBE, Astral etc, if we had those abilities here and now.

Just some fun speculation on my part. I do understand where you are coming from when you claim these things are not real, but I repectfully disagree, these things are as real as anything else that takes place within our minds, with the benefit of not getting injured, super powers, etc.... wouldn't it be great if, when we die it would be like in dream state, we just wake up into an even more grounded reality with different laws of physics?

ok, I've rambled on way too long now... hope you don't feel I am being confrontational, I don't mean to be. I am just tired and wanted to try and explain my position a bit better.

reply to post by esteay812


I think you've misinterpreted my use of the word "fantasy" to mean that you never experienced it. This is incorrect. If I meant that you did not see a creature jumping on your back, I would say that you never saw a creature jumping on your back. A fantasy is something experienced solely by the mind, without a tangible counterpart in reality.

What you saw as a creature hopping on your back was the fantasy, what was really happening (the reality) was that your nerves were waking up and the synapses were firing off, causing your back muscles to flinch and move. Your mind, not fully aware of what was happening yet, perceived this motion as something hopping on you.

I hope that clarifies things some. I'm going to avoid a debate over whether existence is solely in the mind, or if something really exists beyond our brains, because my experience has proven to me the opposite of your stance. Where you say there is no reality, that it's all in our heads, I've met enough blind individuals, and coma patients to know that solid reality exists beyond simply our "observing it."

~ Wandering Scribe

You know if people could just get off their soapboxes long enough rather than trying to outwit each other on the forums...I'd post a lot more responses here. thanks for ruining another thread for me with your personal issues and bickering. Thumbs down.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Because it happened and can be recalled afterwards does mean that it happened in reality, to my understanding. There are many different aspects to our presence, including dreams and fantasy, they all exist in reality.

Originally posted by digital01anarchy
rational explanation for SP makes sense to people who haven't gone through it which is totally understandable. Its a whole different beast when it happens to you and the rational explanation seems lacking.

Nope. I experienced it through my teens. Once I read about it, and the explanations were pretty spot on to my experiences, I was able to recognize what was happening. It slowly diminished (not sure why) and disappeared before adulthood. I still have the occasional wake-up with a distinct "something's in the room" feeling. It's similar to waking up from a nightmare that you can't remember -- all the feelings are still there, but no threat.

This is even before you realize you cant move. Add in the fact that you are totally aware of your surroundings. I was in a bed and was positioned in a way i could see the tv I knew what was on, The sensation of hands over your mouth and temperature of the room I could recall, hallucinations are not normally that detailed. The fear is overpowering I couldn't explain it you people who have not had SP. Its a fear at your very core. I have had close calls where i almost died and even then I wasn't as afraid as i was in that moment I had SP.

All these sensations are "textbook" SP. I'm not sure what you're arguing for except that you want to insist your situation is special if not supernatural (which it isn't).

If it was just the brain waking up before the body you would have the ability to control the fear because your aware. something is amiss

First, your brain wakes up in stages. Second, can you control your fear/emotions in normal dreams? I sure can't. I'd bet this is pretty normal. If you can control your dreams, you're insisting that SP isn't like normal dreaming so the same rules wouldn't apply anyway.

Hi all

If you read my bio you will see ive had this SP since i can remember and ive been "studdied" at Manchester univerity in my teen, you know helmet on head with wires and they tell you to sleep, which never worked because i dont usually where a helmet to bed hahaha, but if its a biological brain problem or demons or interdimentional beings whatever you belive there is nothing like fear you will experiance waking up stood at the side of your bed seeing yourself asleep and having two of these "things" in front of you, and let me tell you ........they aint all that either reguardless of where they come from.

Peace

Ste