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Originally posted by digital01anarchy
rational explanation for SP makes sense to people who haven't gone through it which is totally understandable. Its a whole different beast when it happens to you and the rational explanation seems lacking. 99 percent of the time people are scared when they wake up why? This is even before you realize you cant move. Add in the fact that you are totally aware of your surroundings. I was in a bed and was positioned in a way i could see the tv I knew what was on, The sensation of hands over your mouth and temperature of the room I could recall, hallucinations are not normally that detailed. The fear is overpowering I couldn't explain it you people who have not had SP. Its a fear at your very core. I have had close calls where i almost died and even then I wasn't as afraid as i was in that moment I had SP.
Its like you want to see what the hell is going on but your body knows better and will not let you move. Here is my take on this. Lets say you had an awesome dream you wake up not afraid and are aware of everything but you cant move you know you have had SP before so you know it will pass. This reality never happens you always wake up fearful and totally aware. If it was external stimuli that caused you to suddenly wake up and not be able to move humans would have never died off years ago. If it was just the brain waking up before the body you would have the ability to control the fear because your aware. something is amiss
Originally posted by AnonUK
I think that lucid dreams and OBE's attract spirits (good and bad) think about it, Our bodies are vessel's and our mind controls the machine.
If our Mind wonders off then what can fill the machine/vessel.
Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Refer to digitalanarchy's post for a backstory to what I'm about to add. Couldn't find his/her post to quote, so I'm rolling on with it.
Anyway, the feeling of an actual entity physically restraining you to the point of helplessness...could it be an exceptionally powerful but inexperienced OBE experimenter? Someone who is unaware that they're are having a real effect, and so they're playing around or not paying attention?
I personally don't believe in actual demons, but I do believe in negative energies and subconscious attacks on other people...attacks than can be very, very real.
Other than that, I don't know what to say on this subject. I'm fairly certain that if doctors can treat it, scientists must have a fairly good grasp of the cause. Otherwise, you can't fix something if you don't know what's wrong. If you're not satisfied with the explanation, get a degree? I really don't know.
Many people assume that morality — our sense of what is “right” and just in this world versus what is wrong — is something we formulate through a process of time, experience and thinking. We equate morality with higher reasoning and not a base instinct like hunger or the need for shelter.
New research out from the University of Toronto suggests that perhaps such thinking is wrong...
The researchers used a technique of measurement of facial muscles contraction using electrodes.
The researchers focused on movement of the levator labii muscle, which acts to raise the upper lip and wrinkle the nose, movements that are thought to be characteristic of the facial expression of disgust. They found activation of this region in all three study situations.
The researchers said,
“However, disgust is an ancient and rather primitive emotion which played a key evolutionary role in survival. Our research shows the involvement of disgust in morality, suggesting that moral judgment may depend as much on simple emotional processes as on complex thought.”
I find it fascinating to imagine that constructs — such as morality — we previously thought of as artificially human-created are actually, in some manner, hard-wired into our brains. Could this just be the result of hundreds of generations of human evolution that has determined that such a morality wiring is beneficial to the survival of the species? Or some artifact of the thought processes involved in making morality judgments?
Read Full Article Here
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by esteay812
You're attempting to redefine what constitutes real. Real as a term relates to objective things, it is not a subjective term. If an individual experiences something, but two other witnesses do not, then what the original experiences is called fantasy, implying something fantastic, or imaginary. Our minds are susceptible to both reality and fantasy though, which is where your argument seems to arise from. Just because the brain responds to it, does not mean it is real.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
If you walk into a dark cave, cut off all light, and start thinking about monsters living in there, your brain may begin to activate the chemical responses which come along with being stalked by a predator. This does not mean the predator is real, or that the response is validated. It means you tricked your brain with fantastical things. If you altered your statement to reflect the fact that the recipient thinks his experience is real, I would be more inclined to agree.
But, by the same token, just because we think something is real, does not mean it is so. For decades people thought they were visited and abducted by beings from Venus who lived in fruitful garden paradises. To these people their fantasies were real. However, we now know Venus is a poisonous hunk of rock super-heated by it's propinquity to the sun. What these people experienced was not real, no matter how much they believed it was.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
As for people suffering sleep paralysis who see figures... For the record, I did not always see figures in the eight years I suffered from it. More common for me were auditory hallucinations, such as soft music, and feminine voices calling my name. When I did see figures they were actually rather bemusing. Typically a tall white "woman" who had some kind of reddish-brown hair, and stood in the corner of my room. She looked like she was trying to play a piano that I could never see.
And here I thought you would not thump your physics bible in defense of the new great church of the God particle.
science openly says they do not know why SP happens
Sleep researchers conclude that, in most cases, sleep paralysis is simply a sign that your body is not moving smoothly through the stages of sleep. Rarely is sleep paralysis linked to deep underlying psychiatric problems.
and don't even touch on the subject of why so many people can possibly hallucinate the same thing
Why we can, with such ridiculing certainty, know what's on Venus when we don't even know if mars has water and we have a double-damned rover on the thing.
Instead you just called me stupid in a way that left you with I'd guess 5 posting characters left. haha.
Then you call the typical scientific explanation of what and why SP is and happens as MY STRAW MAN argument!?!?!? WTF?
Gravity? As a supposed scientifically oriented person you just actually said you know what Gravity and every particle and other little thingamajig ...[snip]... you named out of a book is? Really?
Let me try to put things into perspective for you, If your arrogance permits of course, because you obviously love science, Don't ground yourself down in theological dogma.
Science is a tool used to help figure things out...
But once Science starts telling you what is rea ...[snip]... it becomes a religion.
this is a foolish thing to do and a very third dimensional thing to do but we do not just float in three dimension we are in many.
Isaac newton did not come up with his equations because he was feeding off of scientific words
So yes you can spout BIG words about and prove my ignorance which is very easily accepted by myself but those pretty words mean absolutely nothing to you but dogma if you can honestly say you know what they are
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Science is not a Church, or a system of belief; it is a method for measuring and testing observable reality. The God particle has nothing to do with religion.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Science does know what causes sleep paralysis.
The pathophysiology of sleep paralysis has not been concretely identified, although there are several theories about what causes an individual to develop sleep paralysis.
It has been determined that there is a genetic component to sleep paralysis.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Do you believe in demons? You'll see a demon.
Do you believe in ancient life-sucking hags? You'll see an ancient life-sucking hag.
Cultural memes. Our media saturates us with [SNIP] stems from your love of anti-science conspiracy theories.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Do you know what Alaska looks like? How about Guatemala? Do you know what France, Germany, Spain, or Helsinki, Finland look like? Here is a good overview for you of Venus. That's how we know: science.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Your explanation of sleeping monkeys in trees was neither typical, nor scientific. It was a straw-man you set up to knock down, which you promptly did.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
I didn't use a book, that's all info I know from my studies. Second, I didn't say we know what everything is. Go back and re-read to see what I really said.
Quite a number of experiments show that Einstein was right about this idea and a lot of others. But there are questions for which even Einstein had no answers. For example, if gravity is a force that causes all matter to be attracted to all other matter, why are atoms mostly empty space inside? (There is really hardly any actual matter in an atom!) How are the forces that hold atoms together different from gravity? Is it possible that all the forces we see at work in nature are really different sides of the same basic force or structure?
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
I'm an Alekaite, not a scientist. I'm just as spiritual as the Wicca and the Christian. I just happen to base my spiritual beliefs in scientific and historical fact. Thank you for another ad hominem attack.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Yay! You're getting it!
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
And now you're dead in the water again. Good try though, so close.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Length, width, height... the fourth is rumored to possibly be time. But science isn't sure yet. Care to tell me how to observe the 5th through 14th?
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Actually, he was. His work built off of Kepler and other astronomers and mathematicians.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
Ah! So you're part of the "Ignorance is Bliss" church. I see. Well, I can't compete with that. Your whole goal in life is to remain uneducated and unaware; ill-equipped to deal with the world. Your mission in life is to rally against anything which you do not understand and call it "dogma" and brainwashing. Congratulations, I'll let the Pastor know you have fulfilled every precept and tenet. Maybe he'll elect you God of the Church of Ignorant Bliss!
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
And oh, look at that! I still have 203 character left!
You're stupid.
~ Wandering Scribe
a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
You clearly haven't been following up on the recent discoveries of science.
The Higgs boson has passed peer review. It is not a "mythical" possibility; they found it. It exists, and can be viewed. So, your whole reality/fantasy, wild goose chase commentary is out the window.
Not that it ever mattered. Your ignorance was apparent when you thought that the "God" particle had something to do with religion. There's nothing more to say, unless you'll be apologizing for being wrong about it.
Back in July, both the CMS and ATLAS teams — teams of scientists tasked with analyzing the data produced by the CMS and ATLAS detectors — announced that they’d discovered a new elementary particle.
CERN did not say that this was the Higgs boson, the so-called God particle,....
but as the Standard Model of particle physics only has one undiscovered particle remaining, it probably is the Higgs boson.
Following CERN’s announcement, both the CMS and ATLAS teams submitted their findings to Physics Letters B — and today, both of their research papers have passed peer review by the scientific community, effectively becoming… science.
Before we actually know what the new particle is, CERN, the LHC, and the CMS and ATLAS teams must perform additional tests. The LHC had been scheduled to shut down for upgrades, but following the July announcement it has instead been smashing protons together nonstop, to produce more data for CMS and ATLAS to analyze. By December, it is hoped that both teams will have a much better idea of the properties of the new particle, and whether it is actually the Higgs boson.
There is always the outside chance that it’s another particle entirely, which would turn our understanding of the universe on its head — in a good way.
So, where does this leave us? Oh, yes, sleep paralysis.
Both my Web MD article (which you mocked) and your Wiki article (which you praised) state the same causes for sleep paralysis:
[SNIP]
So, both my article and your article point to science knowing why sleep paralysis occurs. There's no discrepancy here, outside of your having not fully read either article. While you were trying to quote-mine for something which might vaguely support your stance, I read the Wiki's entire article and realized they both agreed.
The pathophysiology of sleep paralysis has not been concretely identified, although there are several theories about what causes an individual to develop sleep paralysis.
Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by TucoTheRat
scientific theory means (emphasis added by me):
a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact.
Reality and fantasy relate to observable existence. When something can be observed, tested, and quantified; and then the whole thing be done by someone else; it is real, meaning part of reality. If something can only be tested metaphysically, supernaturally, or through contemplation then it is not part of reality, but a part of fantasy.
Now, fantasy can become reality, but only when the fantastical element can be studied under the rules of reality. Demonic involvement in sleep paralysis can become a reality, only when demons can be measured, seen, and experimented on, by any scientist who wishes to; including you and me.
Until then:
Sleep paralysis being caused by sleep patterns, sleep disorders, and genetics: scientific theory with testable data: REALITY.
Sleep paralysis being caused by demons, spirits, and supernatural forces: philosophical supposition without any testable data: FANTASY.