How do elites escape chemtrails?

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 






The thing here that I would like to understand is why elites, some with seemingly unlimited financing (i.e. printing money based on no real standard - which used to be illegal and may still be), would subject themselves and theirs' to the harmful effects of these results: global dimming, global warming and drought?


Except that there is NO data that suggest persistent contrails or contrail cirrus cause drought in ANY way. Just speculating to confirm your bias does not make for good analysis.

edit on 13-9-2012 by Thorazine because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 




But you as a ground observer would have the information on humidity at 34,000', the fuel content, and the actual altitude the plane is at?


No, no and no. Not necessarily. The ballons utilizing radiosonde (transmitting humidity readings) are very limited and the atmosphere is immense. Readings from ONE location are extrapolated to include broad sections of atmosphere with no radiosonde.

Experimental fuels and fuel additives are continually being tested. Some in countries which require environmental impact studies and some in countries that don't. Some fuels and additives are DOD secrets and others are corporate secrets. The same way that GMO, once released, is carried by wind and water and birds and bees, so, too, are experimental substances. There's no going back and should there be some adverse effects, as was once the case with Agent Orange, they will be denied if known and denied if never publicly disclosed. They'll be denied until public outcry becomes overwhelming or until whistleblowers step forward and live.

Flight trackers available on the internet will show, for the general public, flights that do not opt out of being shown. All flights are known to someone but DOD and some commercial flights can opt out of the general public arena. There is no altitude for these flights because as far as the general public is concerned, they don't exist.



What if there was a front approaching? How would that affect your thoughts on if this would be a contrail lasting for hours, or a chemtrail?


Reading responses and threads in this forum I find that the UK doesn't have quite the graphic display in the sky that the US, for instance, does. The UK, in the past, has been perceived as a location where there is always a front of some sort and always the potential for weather. It is only in the past 1.5 years that information on drought in various UK spots has filtered out. Natural cirrus, in the past, generally signalled weather. It signalled weather because it was an indication that humidity levels had reached saturation and that soot had as well and that the temperature was correspondingly cold enough for cirrus to form. These same conditions brought weather. Contrail cirrus, the cirrus of today, doesn't necessarily signal weather of any kind. It may, instead, signal drought. To be honest, invisible cirrus, which there is a lot of, can signal drought but not necessarily in the place where it originally forms. So, to answer your question regarding my thoughts: a front is generally needed for a contrail that might persist for, perhaps, 15 minutes. Beyond that, a combination of many perfect conditions are required.



Just looking at what it takes to have lingering clouds makes it impossible to tell anything about a contrail other than it most likely is in fact a contrail.


Cirrus and contrail cirrus form at extremely high altitudes. They are some of the few clouds that form at these altitudes. There are very specific parameters required for their formation. Lingering, lower forming clouds have different requirements.



unless there is some new scientific data on the formation of chemtrails.


Current scientific data on the formation and behavior of persistent contrails is not consistent with data from WWII. That is part of the reason that I believe that today, the bulk of what are called 'persistent contrails' are, in fact, chemtrails.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by fireyaguns
 


Thankyou for your contribution which I always seek. Your input, in the past, has proven to be invaluable. It's an extremely interesting assertion - that chemtrailing stops a few days prior to the arrival of an elite and I'm going to try to track this and also, as a reverse, it may be a way to tell who's elite and who's not.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by Thorazine
 




You have been shown research dating back decades documenting and studying contrails that persist for hours.


I'm not denying that something persists for hours. I'm denying that this something is a contrail, in the classical historical sense. Even your side admits this much when you all say that engines have changed.



Science says that when the air is saturated with respect to ice, the ice crystals in a contrail will persist. This IS basic physics. This has not changed since WW2. It is irrefutable, proven fact based on the Laws of nature.


The laws of nature, as you call them, are exactly why today's contrail is, in fact, a chemtrail. Something has changed in order for outrageous persistence to become the norm rather than the Guiness oddity it used to be. The laws of nature, imo, have not changed. The substance and charge of the soot particle has changed. Willfully, imo.



So, perhaps its possible that the "elites" do not need to escape "chemtrails" because they do not exist. You should be intellectually honest and at least include that as a possibility.


You didn't read the thread. I did include this both in my long list and the short list. Having included it, I respectfully asked those who don't accept chemtrails to speak to why elites would subject themselves to, for instance, global dimming and all the problems this can cause. Global dimming is a real, researched, contrail cirrus driven concern. We're getting less sunlight and I imagine that what we are getting is filtered further so that what supplied life to us and our planet for eons is now being dimmed. How do elites escape this? How do they get around it?

Your next post was a repeat of this one? What's up?



Except that there is NO data that suggest persistent contrails or contrail cirrus cause drought in ANY way. Just speculating to confirm your bias does not make for good analysis.


There's a lot of data that suggests this. There's no 'Now Hear This' on it, except from me, of course, but that doesn't negate it. Speak to global dimming then. Or do you dispute scientists and researchers on that as well?



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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How does a rocket create a contrail?
Best of my understanding from debunkers here,
A jet engine takes in air,
which may be humid,
on intake side and output of engine exhaust,
may result in cirrus clouds or contrails.
But rocket engines and its fuel,
need no oxygen from atmosphere,
as there is none in space.
So how does a rocket make a contrail,
when no atmosphere is used for combustion of engine?
I just want to understand not defend either side of the lines drawn in the air.

azstarnet.com...


Photos of an unusual formation in the sky over Tucson started to be posted on Facebook just after dawn today. The twisting cloud-like formation sparked a lot of awe and speculation across the Southwest. The early morning show in the sky was courtesy of missiles fired from New Mexico that left a brilliant white contrail.
edit on 13-9-2012 by Rudy2shoes because: atmosphere



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by Rudy2shoes
 


by reacting a fuel and oxidiser - in the sprecific case of the juno missile you cite - it uses RP-1 [ kerosene ] fuel and LOX [liquid oxygen ] oxidiser

the reaction is pretty simple

CxHy +02 = CO2 + H2O + trace conaminants

it isnt rocket science



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:37 PM
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In response to the op question,
the elite never need to protect themselves
from profit,
regardless of the side effects.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Rudy2shoes
 


by reacting a fuel and oxidiser - in the sprecific case of the juno missile you cite - it uses RP-1 [ kerosene ] fuel and LOX [liquid oxygen ] oxidiser

the reaction is pretty simple

CxHy +02 = CO2 + H2O + trace conaminants

it isnt rocket science


Thank You
Makes me feel better knowing any ignorant_ape
can launch a missile.
No offense intended to you.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by Rudy2shoes
 


Thankyou for contributing the major missing link to my thread.



...the elite never need to protect themselves from profit, regardless of the side effects.


IMO, this deserves the number one spot and is the only motivation that drives all the seemingly incomprehensible actions of our elite rulership. This motivation filters down to become sub-motives that appeal to a sub-elite, but, in general, always and forever, having profit, whether personal or national or etc., as a constant underlying current.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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I'm not denying that something persists for hours. I'm denying that this something is a contrail, in the classical historical sense. Even your side admits this much when you all say that engines have changed.
reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Why is it not a contrail?

A Contrail is condensed, frozen water vapor made from the combustion of jet fuel. This was the case in WW2 and is the case now. The basic physics has NOT changed. Contrails persisted for hours 40 years ago as documented by science and history....and contrails persist for hours now.

Pointing out that the newer engines of today produce more water vapor does not change the basic physics of how a contrail is formed and why it persists. The contrails of today are the same as "classical historical " contrails...

...there are just more of them now.

Given the proliferation of air travel across the globe the in the last 30yrs that is completely logical and expected.

Over 40,000 flights per day in the US alone...thats a lot of potential contrails.




The laws of nature, as you call them, are exactly why today's contrail is, in fact, a chemtrail. Something has changed in order for outrageous persistence to become the norm rather than the Guiness oddity it used to be. The laws of nature, imo, have not changed. The substance and charge of the soot particle has changed. Willfully, imo.


No- nothing has changed. The basic science that dictates the formation and persistence of contrails is the same as it always was...its just the there are now exponentially more of flights now...thus more contrails- persistent or otherwise. Airplane travel at all used to be an oddity - now it is common place...as are contrails.

...and yet- every scientific research paper from the 1970s studying these "guiness oddit(ies)" described them as "common", "frequent" and "often"....Are you doubting their observations??

You claim the "substance and charge" of the soot particle has changed...and yet can provide NO evidence to support that claim...that is merely a leap of faith on your part to bolster your myth.




why elites would subject themselves to, for instance, global dimming and all the problems this can cause


Except that the effects of air travel on global dimming is negligible in comparison to all the particulate matter from ground based pollution....the "elite" like to fly and drive their car just as much as you do.




There's a lot of data that suggests this (contrails cause drought)


No. Unless you can present some you are merely speculating based on your preconceived notions and bias...there is NO data that suggests contrails cause drought...making things up does not help your argument.

the FACT is that contrails have ALWAYS been able to persist for hours...they have ALWAYS been able to spread and cover the sky in a haze of man-made cirrus...nothing has changed except the number of planes in the sky.

Your continued denial of this reality undermines your credibility and renders your claims baseless...

The ramparts of FACT and logic are merciless to a boat of speculation and myth.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by Thorazine
A Contrail is condensed, frozen water vapor made from the combustion of jet fuel. This was the case in WW2 and is the case now. The basic physics has NOT changed.


They had Jets, in WW2?
I would love to see a historic picture of jets making contrails
during WW2.

www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu...


A young German physicist, Hans von Ohain, worked for Ernst Heinkel, specializing in advanced engines, to develop the world's first jet plane, the experimental Heinkel He 178. It first flew on August 27, 1939. Building on this advancement, German engine designer Anselm Franz developed an engine suitable for use in a jet fighter. This airplane, the Me 262, was built by Messerschmitt. Though the only jet fighter to fly in combat during World War II, the Me 262 spent a significant amount of time on the ground due to its high consumption of fuel. It was often described as a “sitting duck for Allied attacks.” Meanwhile, in England, Frank Whittle invented a jet engine completely on his own. The British thus developed a successful engine for another early jet fighter—the Gloster Meteor. Britain used it for homeland defense but, due to lack of speed, it was not used to combat over Germany. The British shared Whittle's technology with the U.S., allowing General Electric (GE) to build jet engines for America's first jet fighter, the Bell XP-59. The British continued to develop new jet engines from Whittle's designs, with Rolls-Royce initiating work on the Nene engine during 1944. The company sold Nenes to the Soviets—a Soviet version of the engine, in fact, powered the MiG-15 jet fighter that later fought U.S. fighters and bombers during the Korean War.
edit on 13-9-2012 by Rudy2shoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by Rudy2shoes

Originally posted by Thorazine
A Contrail is condensed, frozen water vapor made from the combustion of jet fuel. This was the case in WW2 and is the case now. The basic physics has NOT changed.


They had Jets, in WW2?
I would love to see a historic picture of jets making contrails
during WW2.


Sorry- my bad...I should have written airplane fuel. A Contrail is condensed, frozen water vapor made from the combustion of airplane fuel. This was the case in WW2 and is the case now. The basic physics has NOT changed. Contrails persisted for hours 40 years ago as documented by science and history....and contrails persist for hours now.

They certainly had plenty of contrails during WW2:

www.youtube.com...
edit on 14-9-2012 by Thorazine because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by Thorazine
 


I am fine with that it appears in WW2 it affected the weather also,
I think many even me, are claiming the same, and you pointing out nothing has changed from WW2,
may be pointing out the same, even if it was, or was not your intention.

news.discovery.com...


World War Two changed everything about life in Britain, even the weather. Allied bombing raids leaving from Britain seem to have affected the local climatic conditions. Rob MacKenzie, now at the University of Birmingham, and Roger Timmis of the British Environment Agency looked at weather records from 1943 to 1945 and found that after massive air raids the areas the planes flew over were cooler than similar areas nearby. Discovery News recently wrote about how modern planes affect the weather.


So now we can look at where were the elites during WW2, during weather change and global change at that time.
Selling weapons and handing out loans for profit, I bet.


"This is tantalising evidence that Second World War bombing raids can be used to help us understand processes affecting contemporary climate," concluded MacKenzie. "By looking back at a time when aviation took place almost entirely in concentrated batches for military purposes, it is easier to separate the aircraft-induced factors from all the other things that affect climate." The research was published in the International Journal of Climatology.



edit on 14-9-2012 by Rudy2shoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Late to the thread...why we take a pill monthly that cost 10,000 dollars that totally counters chemtrails effects....if you can afford the pill you can also be one of us....



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Late to the thread...why we take a pill monthly that cost 10,000 dollars that totally counters chemtrails effects....if you can afford the pill you can also be one of us....


So if your are on the pill,
you also know who is going to be the next President,
care to share?
Or is it written in contrails in the sky and we without our secret decoder rings,
cant read the message?
edit on 14-9-2012 by Rudy2shoes because: k



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Rudy2shoes

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Late to the thread...why we take a pill monthly that cost 10,000 dollars that totally counters chemtrails effects....if you can afford the pill you can also be one of us....


So if your are on the pill,
you also know who is going to be the next President,
care to share?
Or is it written in contrails in the sky and we without our secret decoder rings,
cant read the message?
edit on 14-9-2012 by Rudy2shoes because: k


Obama will be still.... mark my words....



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by Rudy2shoes
 


That ordinary contrails inadvertently affect local weather is a long way from a purposeful "spray" campaign of unknown intent....

Since ordinary contrails can persist for hours and spread- and always have- seeing one or more do so should not be construed as a " chemtrail" because you read it on the Internet and heard it on Alex Jones and don't remember seeing them before.

....that there are over 40,000 flights every day in the US and many of those flights are bound to leave persistent contrails and cross paths whilst doing so does not mean "chemtrails" are real.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Late to the thread...why we take a pill monthly that cost 10,000 dollars that totally counters chemtrails effects....if you can afford the pill you can also be one of us....


So if your are on the pill,
you also know who is going to be the next President,
care to share?
Or is it written in contrails in the sky and we without our secret decoder rings,
cant read the message?
edit on 14-9-2012 by Rudy2shoes because: k


Obama will be still.... mark my words....


Makes sense,
is that why they fly in circles at 30,000 feet above airports making big O's,
and never land!

We need some humor about current life,
where they defend airports with armies of white shirts.
edit on 14-9-2012 by Rudy2shoes because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Thorazine
reply to post by Rudy2shoes
 


That ordinary contrails inadvertently affect local weather is a long way from a purposeful "spray" campaign of unknown intent....

Since ordinary contrails can persist for hours and spread- and always have- seeing one or more do so should not be construed as a " chemtrail" because you read it on the Internet and heard it on Alex Jones and don't remember seeing them before.

....that there are over 40,000 flights every day in the US and many of those flights are bound to leave persistent contrails and cross paths whilst doing so does not mean "chemtrails" are real.


I have been told they could fly lower,
use more fuel, not make contrails,
but profits would suffer.
Even thought the same elites own the oil company's, that sell fuel to airlines,
it appears they want to burn the candle at both ends for max profits.
There is no profit in my opinion,
so I never expect it to be accepted.
I accept your idea of profit, that you will never be able to experience,
but have been convince you need to defend it for them.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by Rudy2shoes

Originally posted by Thorazine
A Contrail is condensed, frozen water vapor made from the combustion of jet fuel. This was the case in WW2 and is the case now. The basic physics has NOT changed.


They had Jets, in WW2?


Yes - ME-262, He-162, Ar-234, Gloster Meteor, P-80 all were operational to some extent or other. There were many more prototypes under development and flying too, such as the Dh Vampire.


I would love to see a historic picture of jets making contrails
during WW2.


Me too - unlikely tho - the numbers flying were very small.



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