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Unconstitutional Abuse of Power - Questioned by Police for Buying Ammo?

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posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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So many examples have been provided lately about people being subjected to unconstitutional treatment by local and federal government “officials”. This story should come as no surprise. Late last month Brian Loftus purchased a few boxes of ammunition from his local gun shop only to receive a phone from State Police questioning his purchase.



This seems to be a clear violation of his 4th amendment rights. There was no probable cause for such an inquiry. This guy wasn’t being investigated for a crime. The 4th amendment is very clear:


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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According to his story, a Chief directed the police to follow up with this man. This means several levels of law enforcement are either oblivious to the rights of the citizens they have sworn to protect or have decided to ignore these rights.

Are people like Brian Loftus the new target of the War on Terrorism? Are people like Brian really a threat to the security of our nation?


Who is next?




posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


No one has any RIGHTS in this country anymore, because there's always someone who will use those rights to be an absolute idiot and ruin it for everyone else.

I hate to say it, but slavery does seem to be freedom. Enslave the information systems, and no one will get crazy ideas and start blowing s**t up. The more we know, the more desperate we are. Keep the blinders on, and we're docile. It sounds horrible, but it's better than James Holmes, Columbine, or any other act of terrorism and violence because of someone who knew too much and/or took what they read and learned a little too far.

What would YOU sacrifice for national peace and prosperity? Maybe that's the question we've been missing all along. George Orwell was a f***ing genius, apparently.
edit on 10-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


All a result of "See something say something."! Notice how a friend of the police chief, saw this guy purchase the ammo and turned the guy in?

I am old enough to have had to study the rise of Hitler and quite frankly what is happening to my country reminds me of a lot of things that happened during those times. The doubters need to study from history! If they can't see how Hitler came to power and the similarities that we are living in today in this country, they are absolutely blind to their surroundings........



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



No one has any RIGHTS in this country anymore, because there's always someone who will use those rights to be an absolute idiot and ruin it for everyone else.


We DO have rights….the problem is most of the country is too preoccupied to read and understand them, including many people who have sworn to protect those rights.

I applaud Brian Loftus for coming forward with this story. He’s not making a big deal out of this and contacting lawyers. He’s simply making a plea for people to wake the hell up!



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


And what about the people who used their "rights" to harm other people? Freedom of speech has caused how many lawsuits? Ruined how many lives?

Freedom to bear arms has caused how many deaths? How many families have suffered?

We keep wanting our rights, but how mature are we? How much have we SHOWN we deserve these rights? The problem with people is this: we think about ourselves far more than we think about others.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Did the police do anything illegal? That's a gray area if you ask me. A citizen reported (what he incorrectly felt was) suspicious activity. So then the police have two choices.

1. Do nothing - ignore the report
2. Follow up

If on the off chance this guy shot up a movie theater and the police didn't follow up - the police would be to at fault ... right? The citizen would be yelling from the rooftops that he warned the police. Some would lose their jobs.

Some things are just a no win situation.
edit on 9/10/2012 by RedParrotHead because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 



All a result of "See something say something."! Notice how a friend of the police chief, saw this guy purchase the ammo and turned the guy in?


It reminds me of Obama’s Attackwatch program that promotes ratting on your neighbors….




I am old enough to have had to study the rise of Hitler and quite frankly what is happening to my country reminds me of a lot of things that happened during those times. The doubters need to study from history! If they can't see how Hitler came to power and the similarities that we are living in today in this country, they are absolutely blind to their surroundings........


It is the slow, systematic usurpation of power. I believe that there is a certain element within our government that sees the constitution as nothing but a roadblock to their unlimited power and control over the people of this country. They are chipping away at that roadblock one unlawful violation at a time.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


I'm confused. Where were his rights violated? Was he searched without a warrant? Did they seize his property or the ammo? Was he accused of any crime?

I think that in this case, he was only questioned, right? The police were simply following up on a tip. How would they know unless they asked? It sounds like they dropped it after speaking with him, and that they were polite.

Maybe the person who called them was paranoid and made up a crazy story about this guy. Who knows? I'm just not seeing any violations of his rights in this particular case.

This will be an unpopular opinion, I know. But I can't reach any other based on the facts given.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by JustSlowlyBackAway
 


Actually, that's a purely unbiased opinion. Star for you, sir, for taking an objective stance. And no, I'm not playing favorites: everything BackAway said is accurate, so it's not favoritism.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



We keep wanting our rights, but how mature are we? How much have we SHOWN we deserve these rights? The problem with people is this: we think about ourselves far more than we think about others.


We don’t have to “show” that we deserve these rights!! Our rights are granted to us by our creator not by centralized government.

If you need the government to control your every step then you should move to a country with less freedom. The majority of American’s don’t need someone to wipe their butt for them.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by JustSlowlyBackAway
 



I'm confused. Where were his rights violated? Was he searched without a warrant? Did they seize his property or the ammo? Was he accused of any crime?


Police have no right to question his purchase of a legal product. This is no different than police asking to see your ID while you’re walking down the road minding your own business. You don’t have to answer any questions nor do you have to provide ID….it’s none of their damn business what you're doing or what your intentions are.

Apparently you don’t know your rights!



I think that in this case, he was only questioned, right? The police were simply following up on a tip. How would they know unless they asked? It sounds like they dropped it after speaking with him, and that they were polite.


It’s none of their business…..



Maybe the person who called them was paranoid and made up a crazy story about this guy. Who knows? I'm just not seeing any violations of his rights in this particular case.


It’s none of that guy’s business either!



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by RedParrotHead
 



Did the police do anything illegal? That's a gray area if you ask me. A citizen reported (what he incorrectly felt was) suspicious activity. So then the police have two choices.

1. Do nothing - ignore the report
2. Follow up


When did purchasing ammo become suspicious activity and create probable cause to question a free citizen making a legal purchase?

The police said he wasn’t suspected of any crime.



If on the off chance this guy shot up a movie theater and the police didn't follow up - the police would be to at fault ... right? The citizen would be yelling from the rooftops that he warned the police. Some would lose their jobs.

Some things are just a no win situation.


What was the suspicious activity?



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Seriously????!!!???


You are advocating for a total Nanny State, in which we have no rights, because somebody may get crazy. As Seabag said, perhaps you need to move to a country in which you have no rights, so you can feel safe.

In a free and just society, there are risks. I would rather be treated like a thinking, intelligent adult and have all my rights intact, than live in some oppressive place in which I have no rights because people like you are desperate to feel secure at any cost.

I have zero respect for this sort of thinking, but since we still are in America, you do have the right to think that way.

Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves. We have become a nation of whiny wimps, ready to give it all up so we can curl up with our blankey and suck our thumbs safely.

Excuse me, I have to go outside and scream at the sky now. That is still legal, isn't it??



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 


I didn't say we should, I said it was a consideration. The moment we begin to exclude perspectives based on principle, is the moment we put our brain in a straitjacket and refuse all freedom of thought. I've always thought you were a very insightful member...don't ruin that for yourself now.
edit on 10-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



We keep wanting our rights, but how mature are we? How much have we SHOWN we deserve these rights? The problem with people is this: we think about ourselves far more than we think about others.


We don’t have to “show” that we deserve these rights!! Our rights are granted to us by our creator not by centralized government.

If you need the government to control your every step then you should move to a country with less freedom. The majority of American’s don’t need someone to wipe their butt for them.


creator?? a mythical being grants you rights??? the constitutional "bill of rights" were written by man for man
your rights are protected by government....police, sheriff, courts, judges, juries...these are all made up of people working in, or in the case of juries for, government.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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It should terrify everyone that the stasi can be sent after you for nothing more than a "I saw something I didn't like" phone call.

As a public figure who has experienced more than his fair share of stalkers and lunatics the fact that I can pull any name from the phone book and report that person as "suspicious" and the result will be a background check and interviews not on me but on that random name just blows my mind. This should not be acceptable in any shape or form.

When probable cause is reduced to a paranoid idiot or a nut with an axe to grind the entire structure of "justice" is suspect.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 



creator?? a mythical being grants you rights??? the constitutional "bill of rights" were written by man for man your rights are protected by government....police, sheriff, courts, judges, juries...these are all made up of people working in, or in the case of juries for, government.


Yes…our creator. Allow me to share this document with you as it appears you’re unfamiliar with it. This is the Declaration of Independence.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Please understand that the police, courts, judges and everyone else you named are charged with PROTECTING our rights, they DO NOT GRANT us our rights.

edit on 10-9-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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The creator?...


So let us say that this is possible mythological being exists..where does this creator state that you can purchase tools of destruction?

Where does it state this creator gave you the right to kill for material items..since gun owners love to say they will kill anyone who attempts to steal from them..where does this creator say this?

In fact if you are going by the book written by men for men...AKA the bible...where does it state you are allowed to guns and to buy ammo without government interference?

You might have had an actual argument...but then you mentioned "the creator" ..so now you just looked foolish.

By the way if the police got a report of suspicious activity...it is their right to look into it.

The people you should be angry about are the ones making the reports...and by the way...what makes you think this fella did not warrant investigation...his friend obviously did



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Strange...I've never seen anything resembling a constitution in the Bible. Would you be kind enough to post the relevant verses?



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
reply to post by seabag
 



You use an item to show that these fools also believed in the myths as a evidence for the myth...


Just goes to show you...a lot of gun owners are not very bright.






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