Debate over a Nuclear Iran is just an Illusion- drop your preconceived opinions to see the reality

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Please source how they had the ability to build them when France came in and built it? I understand how a car works, but I cannot build one myself.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by dananni

 

If you think that Iran is all Rainbows and Sunshine and the U.S. is this Warmongering Empire...it shows you have never lived in Iran. Iran is a place where a very small group of Religious Zealots have no problem at all killing their own KIDS in order to stay in power.

The U.S. has made mistakes as to do with Iran but that was because Iran was planned to be invaded by the Soviets. We know this because these plans were released during the Yeltsin Government.

You talk about Iran without knowing it's own people are fighting for a Change of their own Government. The Pro-Democracy Movement will eventually take over but the Old Guard will and has done everything and anything...such as Run a False Election and Beat the Student Demonstrators to Death in order to maintain power. The Internet in Iran is filtered and if you are a Woman...GOD help you in that country.

The People of Iran want a Free Democratic Government and that is 96% of the people. 94% want good relations with the U.S. and the total Population of Iran is over 70% under the age of 30 years old. The U.S. made mistakes by backing the Shah but the U.S. tends to look at WORLD STABILITY AND BECAUSE OF THIS...we have made some choices that were bad but were for the greater good.

Iran's Regime will fall...hopefully by it's own people...but one way or another...it will fall. The people of Iran could very well become a Major U.S. Ally if things are handled properly. The Iranian Population wants the current regime...OUT...PERIOD! Iran's regime sealed it's fate when it kicked out Nuclear Inspectors as well as threatened to Close the Strait of Hormuz...the area of which the majority of all the Worlds OIL is Shipped.

That threat cannot be allowed to occur nor can a country intent on Building Nukes be the one threatening. It is just a matter of time. Split Infinity

I think you responded the the wrong person. I agree with you.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Please source how they had the ability to build them when France came in and built it? I understand how a car works, but I cannot build one myself.

I have known the basic principles of the three forms of Basic Fission Bomb Plans...one of which is not practical and several designs of how a Fusion Bomb works and is designed since I was a KID!

The Two basic Fission Bomb Designs are basic public knowledge and any KID who goes to MIT would be able to put one of these together in their sleep! A Thermonuclear Reaction is a bit more involved but still...the U.S. was planning Hydrogen Bombs in the late 40's and had them in the early 50's.

You actually surprised me...and that is not easy to do...that you do not know how to build one or how it works. Old Style Fission Bombs such as the ones Iran is currently attempting to build...are easy to build but difficult in having the ability to have enough Weapons Grade Fuel for use. THIS IS WHY IRAN HAS BUILT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CENTRIFUGES! Using a Centrifuge is an old style way of Enriching Uranium and since it is THOUSANDS of times cheaper to just abide by the NPT and thus be able to BUY Reactor Fuel...there is no other reason to build this many centrifuges unless you wanted to enrich Uranium to Weapons Grade. It is like building a CANDY FACTORY for the purpose of having a Lollipop! So any arguments to the contrary are STUPID!
Split Infinity

reply to post by dananni

Sorry about that! LOL! Split Infinity

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Please source how they had the ability to build them when France came in and built it? I understand how a car works, but I cannot build one myself.

Also...if you want to learn...just Google Types of Fission Bomb Designs....there are the Gun Barrel Design which is used with Uranium as even though it can be used with Plutonium...you need a longer barrel because you need a Higher Velocity of Impact using Plutonium. Thus this long barrel tech. is not practical.

You can also look at Implosion using Plutonium or Uranium.

A Thermonuclear Bomb or H-Bomb used a two or three stage even. The First stage is a Fission Reaction that creates X-Ray Implosion Bombardment to Create Fusion and if a Third Stage is used this creates Weapons that are TOO MASSIVE for practical use as the U.S. Three Stage Weapon detonated was 25 Megatons and a Later Soviet Three Stage Weapon blast was at around 40 to 50 Megatons.

The U.S. has for years experimented with Matter/Antimatter Reactions and it is known in whispers that the U.S. has created then disassembled such weapons as these reactions were tested on a Sub-Atomic Level and deemed to be capable of creating a CASCADE ENERGY GENERATION AND RELEASE...that involved Antimatter and Matter reactions occurring in more than one Universal State. This statement has been labeled CONJECTURE...but I know better.

Current U.S. DIRECT ENERGY WEAPONS are RADIATION CLEAN as well as SPEED OF LIGHT CAPABLE...thus an enemy cannot hope to surprise attack nor due to the Nature of these Weapons such as the Free Electron Laser Beam being HOTTER THAN THE SURFACE OF THE SUN...allows ENEMY NUCLEAR WARHEADS TO BE VAPORIZED avoiding Nuclear Weapons Fuel Fallout of a Shot Down ICBM. Uranium or Plutonium Fuel Vaporizes down to HYDROGEN and Helium at such Temps. and Networked Super Computing Abilities allows for absolute precision of such Nuclear Powered Laser and Microwave Systems. Along with Beam Splitting Capabilities...NUMERICAL TARGETS NO LONGER ARE A CONCERN...neither are small targets as even a 50 Cal round can be easily targeted and Vaporized. Widening of such Beams can Vaporize Divisions or Cities. Ocean Depths cannot protect Subs as such Beams can penetrate to the Oceans bottom and beyond. Space based Targets are easy and the system is SELF PROTECTING. Split Infinity

reply to post by RogerT3

You are right. The U.S. seems to be in a conflict too often. The reason? Because too many other countries allow things to get to the point that the U.S. MUST GO IN! BOSNIA is a perfect example! Genocide was going on and without the U.S. FORCING Europe to get involved...no one would have stepped in.

Do you know what exactly was the moment when the Soviet Union knew it had lost the COLD WAR? It was when the U.S. under President Reagan...installed Intermediate Range PERSHING II MOBILE MISSILE IN GERMANY. THAT...was the EXACT MOMENT. The Pershing II was a Mobile...SUPER FAST...SS-20 KILLER. The SS-20 was a Soviet Mobile Missile that used Solid Fuel and had 3 MIRVS per Missile.

In the event that the Soviets invaded Europe and the Middle East as was their plan and this plan was made public during the Russian Yeltsin Government...the Soviets would sweep into both areas and use the SS-20 as their Tactical Missile. The U.S. deployed the PERSHING II MOBILE INTERMEDIATE SS-20 KILLER. The Pershing II was so accurate and so fast as well as capable of calculating Targets on the Move...stop and shoot...that the SS-20's could be destroyed before they had time to stop and Target as the Russians had to calibrate where the Missile was first then calculate distance to target as well as FIND THE TARGETS...which before were U.S. Air Force Bases as well as Non-Mobile Missiles.

The Pershing II's could download Satellite Information that would tell them that an SS-20 was going to launch...the Pershing II could then stop...launch as soon as it stopped...and destroy SS-20's as well as Soviet Divisions that would be invading in concert with SS-20 Launch Procedures. Pershing II Nuclear Payloads were small since they were so accurate a large warhead was not needed...thus the Speed of the Pershing II's were so great that they could destroy every SS-20 Launcher before they ever launched as the time it would take a Pershing II to travel 800 to 1200 Miles was less time than it took an SS-20 to stop...calculate position and calculate Trajectory for target. Thus the ENTIRE SOVIET TACTICAL NUCLEAR MISSILE SYSTEM plus all Soviet Divisions as well as Soviet Military Bases and Aircraft involved in such an invasion of both Europe and the Middle East...as they were to invade both at the same time for the purpose of the OIL and securing a Warm Weather Port for the construction of a Soviet Navy to Rival the U.S. Navy....WOULD ALL BE DESTROYED before they ever knew what hit them.

Nuclear Yields on the Pershing II's were very small as to not over irradiate Europe and most Yields were 5 to 50 Kilotons as apposed to the Soviet SS-20's with 2 MIRVS with a 250 Kiloton Yield. The reason for such a large Yield was to compensate for the SS-20's inaccuracy.

After the Pershing II's were put in theater...the Soviet War Planners realized that to counter this threat was beyond both the current Soviet Tech. abilities as well as the ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY that would be required to develop an entire system which would involve New Missiles, New Satellites, New Solid Fuel that could would be lighter and have a better burn rate, Better Computer On Board Systems for quicker Target Calculations as well as the same Stop and Shoot ability of the Pershing II's...plus STEALTH CAPABILITIES had become public and the Soviets were not even on the Board with Stealth as it became known that F-117's had been flying Missions over Western Russia and Eastern Russia as well as over all Soviet Block Countries.

This Reality ended the COLD WAR. Split Infinity

reply to post by charles1952


Refer to project ajax and the recent velvet revolution it is obvious that US govt doesn't pursue what Iranian people pursue.

They are after regime change.

They are spending money by making groups and MSM for local people in Iran.

In this modern age that you can find that money talks m we see that US govt is spending much money to make new structures to support it's old regime change.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

The U.S. made mistakes by backing the Shah and this was a COLD WAR counter plan as the Soviet Union had plans which were made public during the YELTSIN Government...that the Soviets were going to Invade Europe as well as the Middle East through Iran and Turkey and seize the OIL supply as well as build a Warm Weather Port for building a Soviet Navy to Rival the U.S.

In the light of this Big Picture REALITY...we made mistakes in Iran. But now...the Iranian People want a different Government. They want FREEDOM...94% want Good Relations with the U.S.

The Iranians signed the NPT and they BROKE the Treaty. The U.S. cannot allow a Government that would attempt to Close the Strait of Hormuz to have a Nuclear Program. The U.S. Cannot allow Israel to Bomb Iranian Nuclear Sites. The issue is on a road that has one fact in it's ending. The Current Iranian Regime Must GO!

The Iranian People will do it eventually but it may be to slow as Iranian Old Guard Leadership is Gambling...on a loosing concept...that if Iran has a Nuclear Bomb...the U.S. will not do anything....this is ill conceived. A few Nukes will not deter the U.S. Military and ONLY the U.S. Military has the ability to seize all Nuclear sites and make a deal with Iranian Military Leaders to stand down. Split Infinity

And you are asking for the american government to make YET ANOTHER MISTAKE by threatning iran with action on behalf of israel and saudi arabia. Do you really not see that demcracy is not achieved with dropping bombs or even sanctions?

Also the expensive oil problem is based on zionist propaganda of exaggerating the hell out of what the iranian leader says, thus giving cannon fodder to the speculators to rise the price artificially.

We went to liberate iraq and the PRICE OF OIL SKYROCKETED to $120 a barrel after 10 years. We attacked afghanistan on the false premise that they attacked new york city and washington dc which is easily provable AS BUNK if one does some serious research.

How many more stupid mistakes will america make and how much longer will we continue taking orders from israel? I am truely lost for words eventhough I think I do a pretty good job of keeping a cool temper.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I think you are not getting me. Iran has created a problem of which there will be actions taken. This is inevitable. The U.S. knows that there are only two or three options. The BEST possible option is that the Iranian People seize power and the Old Religious Guard will do anything to prevent this.

The ONLY WAY for the Iranian Pro-Democracy Movement to take over Power is if it has the backing of the Iranian Military. The Iranian Military KNOWS that the ONLY WAY for the Old Religious Guard to keep power is if it ORDERS the Iranian Navy to Close the Strait of Hormuz. A Military act and thus a Iranian Naval Defeat at sea with large numbers of Iranian Deaths allows the Old Guard to state any story they want as at sea the population will not be able to witness what happened and the Old Guard can say...THE ZIONIST CONTROLLED U.S. MILITARY IS ATTEMPTING TO DESTROY IRAN! This will cause a large number of Iranians to back the Old Guard as they will believe Israel is involved. If this happens...the U.S. Military will have to SEIZE ALL IRANIAN NUCLEAR SITES as well as use U.S. Military Power on a level that would cause HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF IRANIAN DEATHS. This needs to be avoided. Iran is no match against the U.S. Military and when Nuclear Sites are involved...the U.S. Military will leave nothing to chance. So this is why secret Military to Military Talks are on going. And this can work because Iran's Military DOES NOT WANT TO FIGHT THE U.S. MILITARY!

The Iranian Navy is on board to STAND DOWN and NOT carry out ORDERS that would be SUICIDAL as the Iranian Navy Leadership KNOWS that to carry out the Blocking of the Strait Order will result in the total and complete OBLITERATION of the ENTIRE IRANIAN NAVY. If the Talks work...and they will...Iran's Navy will STAND DOWN...thus giving BACKING TO THE PRO-DEMOCRACY LEADERSHIP. This will also cascade and the Air Force will also stand down as well as all but ONE IRANIAN ARMY DIVISION. This Division is a Highly Paid Loyal Arm of the Old Religious Guard and out of it's 100,000 Soldiers...15 to 20,000 are QUD'S FORCE. They usually operate in other countries with a Directive to spread the Islamic Revolution. They are Murderous THUGS and it is likely that this Division has already been designated the EXAMPLE TARGET...as One Division of Saddam's Loyalist Republican Guard was...and just as what happened in IRAQ...a Wing of B-52's will fly in at night and using New Smart Carpet Bombing Munitions...Destroy this entire Division. If they stand down...GREAT! If they do not and the U.S. will have Thousands of Special Forces and Airborne Rangers Dropped in to Seize all Nuclear Sites...and this Division Attacks...they will CEASE TO EXIST. In IRAQ...not one Soldier of the Example Target Republican Guard Division Survived. The same would occur in IRAN. The next morning after the B-52 Carpet Bombing Run...all Divisions surrendered and Soldiers took off their uniforms and walked home. They said that they could hear and see the B-52 Strike from Hundreds of Miles away and by morning the word got out that IRAQ's most Powerful Army Division had been OBLITERATED by just a single pass over by 12 B-52H's. It is hoped that an EXAMPLE TARGET NEED NOT HAVE TO BE USED. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Dear SplitInfinity, (and any other posters),

I'm feeling reckless tonight. Please allow me to jump in with a completely silly idea so that you can get my thoughts on the right path again.

What happens if the US military, gives the Iranian troops a little jingle on the phone, and says this: "You guys know that Israel is itching to let go, we've tried everything, including insults, to bring them around, but it's no go. So, how do we stop them? Here's our idea. We flood the country with propaganda blaming the Old Guard for the insane militancy and American anger. Then we send in the missiles and the Old Guard says goodbye to its barracks, headquarters, equipment and personnel. Maybe we save one for Ahmadinejad's palace. We don't touch anything else and sign a treaty with you guys to be BFF's. You get control of the government, we work together, and with our help you become big in the Islamic world, as long as you stay with us. Then we tell Israel, there's no need to attack you, and they sign a treaty with you. So, how's it sound?"

I'd appreciate a thought or two from you. You know of my respect for you.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I think you are not getting me. Iran has created a problem of which there will be actions taken. This is inevitable. The U.S. knows that there are only two or three options. The BEST possible option is that the Iranian People seize power and the Old Religious Guard will do anything to prevent this.

What problem have they created? That they bad mouth israel is enough to put sanctions on them and then take military action? If other countries can have nuclear energy and weapons then I see no good reason why iran cannot.

The iranians appear to have faith in him otherwise they would have toppled his government quite a while ago. Please understand I do not like religious fanatics as a left winger, but that does not imply we should provoke action against him. It is up to the iranians to do so IF THEY WISH!

You cannot force democracy just because israel wants it. Can you understand this basic moral issue? Israel is NOT special. We have helped them ENOUGH ALREADY! We helped them get rid of gadafahi, saddam, alqueda, and probably assad as well.

Do you not find it extremely derogatory that a tiny rebellious nation called israel can push around the worlds super power again and again? Push us to conflict with russia and china as well because they always liked doing business with arab nations and ex-warsaw pact nations.

We have nothing to gain and everything to lose by our continous meddling in the middle east. Now if the iranian leader broadens his threats against other muslim nations such as saudi arabia and/or iraq that is a different story. If they close down the strait of hormuz we simply sink their navy and hopefully the iranian fanatic gets the message.

There is no immediate need for regime change. It should be a tit for tat deal imo. Sorry if you have an itchy trigger finger. Do not make it everyone else's problem as well!!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

These are the numbers.
70% of the entire Iranian Population is UNDER the age of 30 Years old.
94% of ALL IRANIANS want good relations with the United States.
96% of all Iranians want a FREE DEMOCRATIC IRAN.

The U.S. does not have to force Iran to become a Democracy...it already wants to be one!

The current Iranian Old Religious Guard has used BRUTAL TACTICS, BEATINGS and outright KILLINGS to prevent the Iranian Pro-Democracy Movement from seizing control of their own Government.

Iran has broken the terms of the NPT. Iran has threatened the Closing of the Strait of Hormuz...the shipping lane of the majority of the Worlds Oil Supply. Iran's Leadership has threatened to WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE MAP. Iranian Military Spokesmen have...CONTRARY to what the REAL IRANIAN MILITARY LEADERSHIP DESIRES...threatened to Battle the U.S. Military if the U.S. Military confronts the Closure of the Strait. Iran has built TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CENTRIFUGES for the sole purpose of obtaining enough Weapons Grade Uranium to build several Nuclear Weapons.

Iran's current Regime will fall one way or another. Split Infinity

reply to post by Wonderer2012

Ok, lets take your hypothetical and go with it...

But WHY would these people want regime change?

Don't call them warmongers or zealots.

And has anybody come out to whistleblow?

Back up what you say with evidence.

You're saying there's a conspiracy, so the burden of evidence is on you.

I'll be waiting for a response.