Debate over a Nuclear Iran is just an Illusion- drop your preconceived opinions to see the reality

Originally posted by randomname
in reality america can't afford another mideast war.

it's used up its last chip.

after iraq and george bush's lies, america has no credibility in the world stage. it will get no international help, troops or u.n. support.

after claiming saddam had wmd who's going to believe america when it says iran has nukes.

now its israel crying nukes, but they're just getting ignored and the u.s. is strangely very quiet with its claims.

the u.s. has cried wolf and now nobody believes them.

"Now it's Israel crying nukes, but they are just getting ignored and the US is strangely very quiet."

In your head, you see this yet just fail to grasp the true meaning. You need to question WHY America is 'strangely quiet'.

See that it is a staged situation. It is being used to make it look like America is trying to avoid war. It's political intrigue to fool the people.

What results from this is that when 'something' happens (false flag or Iran retaliates against Israel), it will appear on the world stage that America is forced into a war it doesn't want!

Of course, that couldn't be further from the truth but that is the image that has to be presented in the run up to war, that is idea they have adopted to deceive the people.

I can't sum it up any clearer than this.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Originally posted by randomname
in reality america can't afford another mideast war.

it's used up its last chip.

after iraq and george bush's lies, america has no credibility in the world stage. it will get no international help, troops or u.n. support.

after claiming saddam had wmd who's going to believe america when it says iran has nukes.

now its israel crying nukes, but they're just getting ignored and the u.s. is strangely very quiet with its claims.

the u.s. has cried wolf and now nobody believes them.

"Now it's Israel crying nukes, but they are just getting ignored and the US is strangely very quiet."

In your head, you see this yet just fail to grasp the true meaning. You need to question WHY America is 'strangely quiet'.

See that it is a staged situation. It is being used to make it look like America is trying to avoid war. It's political intrigue to fool the people.

What results from this is that when 'something' happens (false flag or Iran retaliates against Israel), it will appear on the world stage that America is forced into a war it doesn't want!

Of course, that couldn't be further from the truth but that is the image that has to be presented in the run up to war, that is idea they have adopted to deceive the people.

I can't sum it up any clearer than this.

Once that is said, it becomes very obvious... the illusion is not thicker than it can be torn down by the free thoughts that thankfully still exist amongst men.

Naively, there's only one thing to do.... Don't support Israel. What's the point really? Ask yourself; what do we need them for? If they want to toss their own nation and all the innocent men women and children into death, then let them, but for the love of the universe, don't let the words of a single insane man ( Netanyahu) be the reason that your own people, your own soldiers gets killed in a conflict that isn't theirs to participate in.

Protection starts at home.

Originally posted by randomname

the u.s. has cried wolf and now nobody believes them.

When you cry wolf, that in my mind constitutes a legitimate mistake. What you are talking about is straight out lying. And once you know somebody has lied to you once it makes it difficult to trust them again.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


thank you Wonderer, its true

- apart from the hoax of 'persia and isreal being *cough* enemies ',

the slab of land called 'israel ' has EM weapons

and, ofcourse, persia hasnt

according to col Bearden, only russia and the slab of land called israel have EM weapons

...which would make sense....because the slab of land called israel will have to be ' supernaturally protected ', in order to create a Ritual, to Revelation

Ofcourse it ísnt 'supernatural protection ' - but simply EM weaponry,
which hasnt been disclosed to public yet.

Nuclear weapons are sooooo 60 s..

reply to post by flice


enemies of peace?

Peace like Iran killing protesters in the streets? stoning to death women who have been raped? Hanging gays? Sentencing to death people who arent muslim? (the one recently released is just one, many more have actually been imprisoned and killed)

yeah.......were the enemies of peace.........and Iran is a beacon of tolerance and love.....

Give me a break

Ill patiently wait for the (its not your job to dictate their policies) argument........yet the same people tell us when OTHER countries are carrying out these attrocities that something should be done about it.......hypocrites the lot of you

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

Because the US is paradise? Our mass shootings, police beating homeless people to death, drone assassinations of US citizens without trials. Not to mention the subtle brainwashing that has clearly turned you against people that have never wronged you. Yeah, USA where everything is peachy-keen!

Yes, the apologists are right. Iran is a guiding light of peace and prosperity for the rest of the world to emulate...

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by flice

 

enemies of peace?

Peace like Iran killing protesters in the streets? stoning to death women who have been raped? Hanging gays? Sentencing to death people who arent muslim? (the one recently released is just one, many more have actually been imprisoned and killed)

yeah.......were the enemies of peace.........and Iran is a beacon of tolerance and love.....

Give me a break

Ill patiently wait for the (its not your job to dictate their policies) argument........yet the same people tell us when OTHER countries are carrying out these attrocities that something should be done about it.......hypocrites the lot of you

edit on 10-9-2012 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)

Our leaders might be saying that, but I certainly don't. It's not that I condone any harmful action against another human being, but when deliverance comes as a cloaked deal of resources and rebuilding contracts the whole thing starts to smell.
Every little battle in northern Africa and the middle east is about controlling resources or the people controlling the resources. It's not about democracy or freeing people. America can't even lead a democratic election without scripting it down to a tee... no open discussions, no digging into politicians true meanings and "hopes" for their country. So hope can you believe that you honestly can deliver (or will deliver) that to other parts of the world which come from a totally different mind set?

Yes Iran might be doing terrible things to it's own people, but come on... the American government is the same. It's no different. It's just another type of dictatorship based on capitalism instead of religion.
You have insane politicians who burst out crap like saying women can control wether they get pregnant or not when raped and you still are having issues simply just allowing gay marriages in all states because of a freaking fairytale book originally designed to enslave people.

And now you are the front runner of high tech weaponry and you sell that all around the world. Is that actions of peace? Of freedom? Why sell weapons? Why even make them??? WHY? It's insane for the universe sake!

No peace loving nation or person could ever justify being a front runner of weaponry. You can't even justify it as being for protecting yourself because it's being used all over the world, even by your own troops which are stationed all over the world.
How about you stick to protecting your own backyard instead and then simply accept that what ever resources that comes your way is what you get.... instead of raping and pillaging countries with the aid of the blind and spineless EU.

Dammit we need a damn revolution soon....

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Yes, the apologists are right. Iran is a guiding light of peace and prosperity for the rest of the world to emulate...

Holding a rally and placards is hardly calling for blood now is it?

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Yes, the apologists are right. Iran is a guiding light of peace and prosperity for the rest of the world to emulate...

No... they are angry, and they have a right to be. We don't need to recap what happened in the 50s when BP and the US spooks overthrew a DEMOCRATICALLY elected president because he wanted to keep Irans oil business in the hands of the Iranians.

The point is, everyone is so busy pointing fingers at Iran, but the fact remains that the major western players are pissing on their own people as well, and while doing that they are continuing to destabilise the middle east just like they have always been.

If I had succesfully been a part of retaking my country from the grasps of capitalist bastards then I too would be celebrating and cursing at the criminals for quite a while.

Simply, just bloody hell stop messing with the way other countries run their own show and don't intervene when ever you see fit. You simply have no right....

Originally posted by munkey66

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Yes, the apologists are right. Iran is a guiding light of peace and prosperity for the rest of the world to emulate...

Holding a rally and placards is hardly calling for blood now is it?

No, but mass demonstrations that involve the burning of other countries flags in effigy and chants of death to other nations certainly is.

I suppose I shouldn't be posting, I'm too upset. Not Ronnieray123 upset (although he is the most honest and open poster in this thread), but upset enough that I might be impolite and I apologize for that in advance.

The OP is correct in saying the "Debate over a Nuclear Iran is just an illusion . . ." At least in this thread it has shown itself to be so. There was no dropping of preconceived notions by the supporters of Iran, you can see the same ideas, the same words, in dozens of threads already posted on ATS.

I wish to Heaven there was a debate, at least here if not world-wide. But all that seems to be happening is that another opportunity has been taken by some to repeat, yet again, that Israel is terrible, Iran is peaceful and has done nothing wrong, and the US is terrible.

Ignored here, are the threats, the treaty violations, the repeated statements of outrage from the UN and other agencies, the funding of terror groups, and on and on. A country can only be excused because it is acting stupidly, for just so long. It looks like Iran has passed that limit. A real debate would try to unearth the reason for Iran's apparent insanity. It may be that insanity is all there is.

If that's the case, then it's time to put Ronnieray123 in charge of our military.

Originally posted by flice

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Yes, the apologists are right. Iran is a guiding light of peace and prosperity for the rest of the world to emulate...

No... they are angry, and they have a right to be. We don't need to recap what happened in the 50s when BP and the US spooks overthrew a DEMOCRATICALLY elected president because he wanted to keep Irans oil business in the hands of the Iranians.

Give me a break. As you said, that was an entirely different generation. That is no excuse for the hatred that is being bred by the fanatical regime in Iran towards the west and Israel.

For the sake of the people of Iran, I hope they are successful in overthrowing their current fanatical regime. Unfortunately, I don't think they stand a chance because those that are brave enough to revolt will be left for dead in the streets just as they were a few years ago.

reply to post by Humanity4Ever


You caught me there... and it's true. Whole different generation.

Maybe it's because I don't expect the nation of Iran to have evolved quite as freely and fast in its way of thinking because they are based heavily on religion. I know that can't excuse them entirely for their actions, but we in the west should bloody well know better. And WE should have learned something from the past except how easy it is to destabilise a nation if you just keep feeding lies to the public and control the media.

I don't believe we are past the possibility of talking to them. But we have to earn their trust. It's not like they have seen any example the past 10 years that anything good comes from rolling over on their back for the US.

But then again, I don't see a functioning US without war and weapons industry, I simply dont.

And that in itself is a stopper of peace.

Originally posted by jeantherapy
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Because the US is paradise? Our mass shootings, police beating homeless people to death, drone assassinations of US citizens without trials. Not to mention the subtle brainwashing that has clearly turned you against people that have never wronged you. Yeah, USA where everything is peachy-keen!

Fine if thats the case, go take your arse to Iran and try to speak out like you do here.....

Go have yourself a protest somewhere, have a night out with your gay friends.......

And send your daughter or sister or wife out, and hope no one rapes her and then the gov stones her to death......

Go try to do THERE , the privileges we have HERE...........and tell me how HORRIBLE America is......

America Has its fault, but to sit here and call us an enemy of the peace, while people in Iran are murdered by the gov for being gay, a dif religion, mentally or phsyically handicapped, or a number of other issues, as a matter of GOVERNMENT POLICY.......is complete bullcrap..........

You can sit here and talk this tripe all you want, and say how America is an enemy of peace...

but I bet you my next years salary , you wouldnt dare take a hike on the Iranian border now would you?

reply to post by Wonderer2012




Bravo dear boy! Bravo!

Thanks for that because I definitely needed a slap on my head to remind to not get caught up in the BS that is politics and to look at the bigger picture.

US / UK (and Western Europe) wants regime change in Iran - can we agree on that?

Iran is involved in clandestine wars with the US, via Iraq and Afghanistan providing weapons and training. US/UK are playing a similar game in other wars e.g. Syria. trying to step out of the "Who is right argument?" I don't think the people of the western countries could stomach another war and hence Obama would like to see the "free Syria" groups make the regime change.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Iran has broken the NPT in just about every way and thus it must either change it's current behavior and abide by the Treaty or face Sanctions and possible Military action.

Name one country that abides strictly to the wording of the NPT. Or please list the NPT and how Iran has broken it "in just about every way".

Iran has admitted to building Tens of Thousands of Centrifuges to enrich Uranium and there is only one reason why this many centrifuges would be built and that is to enrich enough Uranium to Weapons Grade for use in a Bomb.

Why wouldn't they admit to building centrifuges? Is it your opinion, or did you just swallow too much MSM, when you state that building that many centrifuges is for making weapons grade for a bomb? Please source.

Iran is currently being protected from Israeli Bombing of it's Nuclear Sites by the United States as the U.S. has forbidden Israel to Bomb sites that would shoot radioactive Material into the Air and Poison much of the Middle East.

Not only the US. They are at least smart enough, in this case, to know that this would bring upon a bigger war than they want/can afford to participate in. Take a look at every other big country...what is their stance on this issue? The US has not forbidden anything. Please source.

Iran has made threats to close the Strait of Hormuz as well as Destroy Israel. If Iran either attempts to Close the Strait or declare they have Nuclear Weapons...the U.S. Military will be forced to go in.

Why are they threatening to close the Strait? In protest against the sanctions put on them. Why are there sanctions put on them? It is because of their nuclear program. What is the matter with their nuclear program? They are not giving full access to the IAEA. Why not give full access to the IAEA? Parchin is a military base, it is not under the jurisdiction of the IAEA as it is not a nuclear site. They have allowed the IAEA in there before and it is being negotiated to allow them in there.

Iran has said that the higher enrichment is for medical isotopes. From Wikipedia:

HEU is also used in fast neutron reactors, whose cores require about 20% or more of fissile material, as well as in naval reactors, where it often contains at least 50% 235U, but typically does not exceed 90%. The Fermi-1 commercial fast reactor prototype used HEU with 26.5% 235U. Significant quantities of HEU are used in the production of medical isotopes, for example molybdenum-99 for technetium-99m generators.[8]

Hmmm....50 - 90% for naval reactors. I wonder why Iran would want that? It's soo funny how many people jump on the "the want to blowed us up using nooklear bombs!" argument when there is so much information to learn about this issue.
Read about what they could be using it for, why they say they are using it. Then look at the the US, Israel, IAEA, and Iran (too name a couple) intelligence, and wonder why they are all saying that Iran is not making a nuclear bomb.
I will never say that they won't ever make one, but, until every country follows the NPT to the letter, they have no business sticking their noses in other countries.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

but I bet you my next years salary , you wouldnt dare take a hike on the Iranian border now would you?

Pay for the flight and we have a deal. None of us know what it is like there. All we get is the media's version. Have you ever been there? Can you imagine what they hear about the US? How many murders a year? Government spying on their own citizens? Locked up without a trial? Having "prison camps" (Guantanamo) just like a certain country? Government taxing the poor/middle class and giving the rich tax breaks? If you just heard the bad things about a country your whole life, would you want to go there? I don't need an answer as you already answered it for me.

reply to post by ronnieray123


You're holding a whole country responsible for something that happened decades ago? Do you know how many things the USA did that we should be "punished for"?

With that theory Israel should be punished, they attacked and killed 25 US navy when they attacked the USS liberty.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.ussliberty.org...