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Debate over a Nuclear Iran is just an Illusion- drop your preconceived opinions to see the reality

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posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by flice
 


Yes I can, and you nor anyone else has the ability to stop me from doing just that. You can say that you disagree, but that does not change anything.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...isn't it.
Well the time is quickly coming for the fun and games to screech to a halt.
Like I said, some innocent Iranians will perish because of the actions of their fathers.......and I am ok with that. Innocent people die everyday and the world keeps right on turning.like nothing ever happened.

How can you be so certain that the person believing propaganda is me...and not you. Maybe they really do think exactly the way I believe them to and maybe not. I do not really care in the slightest.
The only thing I care about is that Iran took my countrymen hostage and I want their punishment to be 1000x as painful to the people of their whole country, as it was to the people of mine...it really is that simple and need not be any more complicated as that.
If Israel benefits from it, that is a bonus prize. If hamas and hezbollah fall apart with out Irans aid.....there goes another bonus.
In my view everyone wins when Iran is pile of rubbish and I will NEVER be convinced otherwise




posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by ronnieray123
 


Well the US did get its vengeance with the shooting down of the Iran Air Flight 655, killing 290 people.
How many people charged over that?
The chemical weapons used on Iranians supplied by the US to Saddam, how many charged on that.

I did read what you wrote, I was even able to make out the color crayon you where using, but do not play the US as victims.

By the way


Revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini—who had been exiled by the Shah for 15 years—heightened rhetoric against the "Great Satan", the United States, talking of what he called "evidence of American plotting". "You have no right to complain, because you took our whole country hostage in 1953.

Who payed for that?



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by flice
 

If you choose to believe anything...believe this. The Old Religious Guard will do anything to stay in Power. They will ....if confronted with a Pro-Democracy Takeover...Order the Iranian Military to create an incident in order to get the People on their Side and will portray their own peoples Democratic Movements attempt at a takeover as a Zionist/U.S. CIA program to destroy Iran.

This is why the Military to Military talks are so important. If Iran's Military KNOWS it will not be attacked by U.S. Forces...it will not attempt to close the Strait. If the Iranian Military thinks it will be attacked in ANY EVENT...it will try to close the Strait as well as attempt to Fight back.

If they attempt the closing as well as attack U.S. Navy Ships...there will be MASSIVE LOSS OF IRANIAN LIVES. This would give the Old Guard what it wants...lots of Dead Iranians and the Zionist/U.S. CIA CONCEPT to rally their Forces. If this occurs then even though the U.S. will WIN and WIN Quickly...it will destroy the chance of having a New Iran as an Ally as most of Iran's Military are a bunch of Forced Conscripted KIDS!

To secure the Iranian Nuclear Sites the U.S. will have to protect from a Counter Attack thousands of U.S. Special Forces and Airborne Rangers dropped in country to seize these sites. If this happens...U.S. Air Force Strikes will kill Hundreds of Thousands of Iranians as they have NO CHANCE AGAINST U.S. MILITARY POWER. Such large amounts of deaths could enrage the whole area. But make no mistake...the U.S. will go ALL IN if Iran attempts to Close the Strait of Hormuz. And they will do whatever is necessary to secure all Nuclear Sites.

If the Military is even falsely told Israel is involved...the Iranians will fight...and the U.S. will have no choice but to bring to bear Very Heavy Force and this would mean destruction of entire Iranian Army Divisions. It would be a BLOOD BATH! We MUST AVOID THIS! Unfortunately...the Higher the Death Toll...the Greater the Control the Old Guard will receive and this would entail FULL SCALE WAR TO REMOVE THE OLD GUARD.

The key to avoiding all this is the Military to Military talks and keeping Israel out of the fight. Split Infinity



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 05:32 AM
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Good to know so many of you think so highly of your fellow citizens that as long as it is not you who was kidnapped......it's all good.
You are scum
I could give a rats ass about who is president, what secret motive and conspiracy was taking place.
You do not kidnap people................and you damn sure do not let it go unpunished.

I wish they never would have done it, really I do....but they did.
I would have preferred the Iranian government rose to the occasion and did the right thing......but they did not

And now you have the audacity to act like it is no big deal.....that I am making an issue out of nothing??

Whose acting like an internet toughguy??? You tell me there is no justification to attack Iran and when I tell you Oh yes there is", then you start spewing pacifist garbage at me like Iran is some innocent country that is misunderstood.

Sorry but I understand all to well.. Revenge is sweetest when served cold, and I look forward to savoring the demise of Iran.
Again I will repeat............They took my countrymen hostage and were allowed to go unpunished, simple as that.
Try to confuse the issue I have with them all you want.
1's and 0's, they committed a crime against my countrymen or they did not.
This is a personal vendetta for me. Politics is of no importance.
You can hate me for being so eager to see a nation in ruin.
You can tell me it is cruel to punish all of Iran for something that happened 30 years ago.
But for me there is no statute of limitations. It would totally break my heart if Iran threw open its doors and let inspectors go where ever they wanted.
Let them be an example for all to see as they wallow in self pity at what has happened to them. Let them ask me personally why I am so happy at their misery because I will gladly tell them and read each name off of the list and explain to them that they created me, I was not born this way.
I hope some of you who love Iran so much go there to protest this unjust war, could use a few less of you running around taking up space as well



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by ronnieray123
 


Well the US did get its vengeance with the shooting down of the Iran Air Flight 655, killing 290 people.
How many people charged over that?
The chemical weapons used on Iranians supplied by the US to Saddam, how many charged on that.

I did read what you wrote, I was even able to make out the color crayon you where using, but do not play the US as victims.

By the way


Revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini—who had been exiled by the Shah for 15 years—heightened rhetoric against the "Great Satan", the United States, talking of what he called "evidence of American plotting". "You have no right to complain, because you took our whole country hostage in 1953.

Who payed for that?


Again you are avoiding MY issue. If the shooting down of that plane was some form of retaliation for the hostages..........it was not nearly sufficient. Akin to letting a child molester go with just a warning instead of his penis inside of a plastic bag.
No sir, you do not understand what a vindictive person I am. The only thing that I can think of that is worse than a foreigner causing harm to one of my countrymen,,,,,,,is one of my countrymen himself doing it to another.

Have you even herd of Iran apologizing for what they did? Yet people want America to apologize to Japan.
I never saw one Iranian get on American television and express regret to the people here for what they did, now it is almost time to pay the piper and sorry will not do the trick.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by ronnieray123
Good to know so many of you think so highly of your fellow citizens that as long as it is not you who was kidnapped......it's all good.
You are scum
I could give a rats ass about who is president, what secret motive and conspiracy was taking place.
You do not kidnap people................and you damn sure do not let it go unpunished.

I wish they never would have done it, really I do....but they did.
I would have preferred the Iranian government rose to the occasion and did the right thing......but they did not

And now you have the audacity to act like it is no big deal.....that I am making an issue out of nothing??

Whose acting like an internet toughguy??? You tell me there is no justification to attack Iran and when I tell you Oh yes there is", then you start spewing pacifist garbage at me like Iran is some innocent country that is misunderstood.

Sorry but I understand all to well.. Revenge is sweetest when served cold, and I look forward to savoring the demise of Iran.
Again I will repeat............They took my countrymen hostage and were allowed to go unpunished, simple as that.
Try to confuse the issue I have with them all you want.
1's and 0's, they committed a crime against my countrymen or they did not.
This is a personal vendetta for me. Politics is of no importance.
You can hate me for being so eager to see a nation in ruin.
You can tell me it is cruel to punish all of Iran for something that happened 30 years ago.
But for me there is no statute of limitations. It would totally break my heart if Iran threw open its doors and let inspectors go where ever they wanted.
Let them be an example for all to see as they wallow in self pity at what has happened to them. Let them ask me personally why I am so happy at their misery because I will gladly tell them and read each name off of the list and explain to them that they created me, I was not born this way.
I hope some of you who love Iran so much go there to protest this unjust war, could use a few less of you running around taking up space as well



A great example of someone who is not awake.

If we were to follow your rules of retribution, then the US is due much retribution itself.

The US is responsible for the overthrow of over 50 democracies since WWII, and been responsible for the murder of millions of innocent civilians since WWII.

Very easy to find:

Google seach on democracies the US has overthrown

I'm sure you're familiar with General Smedley Butler?

www.twf.org...

On US imperialism/militarism:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Retribution is an insane self-perpetuating cycle, the reason for much suffering in the world - you actually have power in forgiving your enemies. Did not Jesus say this? (and please note I'm not religious but believe in God, and I think Jesus was an amazing prophet, sure he was the Son of God, just like we all are).

Retribution, like many of our psychic ills, is ego driven, if you can first minimize your ego then retribution no longer becomes important.

However, the masses are more easily controlled when they are divided, hence the PTB love to present opportunites for us to strenghthen our egos, thoughts of retribution are just one of many.
edit on 10-9-2012 by PlanetXisHERE because: addition



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 06:40 AM
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there is really no point debating an issue with mr ronnieray, lets just pray that he is welded to his computer desk and never allowed to own firearms. really, he sounds dangerous and i hope that people who love him ensure that he does no harm to others.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by ronnieray123
 


Wait a minute, you are waiting for an apology from Iran over the hostage crisis, yet in the same breath you say that 1953 Iranian coup d'état had nothing to do with the hostage crisis?
Learn a little about history before crying victim, in fact the hostage crisis had everything to do with the coup.
The US keeping out of Iranian affairs would have prevented the hostage crisis




The Muslim Student Followers of the Imam's Line demanded that the Shah return to Iran for trial and execution. The U.S. maintained that the Shah, who died less than a year later in July 1980, had come to America only for medical attention. The group's other demands included that the U.S. government apologize for its interference in the internal affairs of Iran, for the overthrow of Prime Minister Mossadeq (in 1953), and that Iran's frozen assets in the U.S. be released



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by ronnieray123
 


Your nugget of hatred burns like the event happened only last week -

Is it possible that one of those 52 captured Americans was a close relation of yours ?

Did the Iranians make this personal when the captured your mother/father/uncle or aunt....... ?



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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NO........"You are scum " insults will detract from the sickness of your mindset......It is not US who need counselling on this matter (and a wide range of others possibly).....Who has twisted your mind?
Please seek some guidance before you consume yourself with hatred for those who will die in their many thousands .......They are NOT the problem!
Those who do NOT study history are condemned to repeat it!
The definition of insanity....Doing the same thing repeatedly while expecting a different result......
Memorise and repeat as nessessary......peace brother....



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 

OK...without preconceived notions...lets just look at the facts.

Iran has broken the NPT in just about every way and thus it must either change it's current behavior and abide by the Treaty or face Sanctions and possible Military action.

Iran has admitted to building Tens of Thousands of Centrifuges to enrich Uranium and there is only one reason why this many centrifuges would be built and that is to enrich enough Uranium to Weapons Grade for use in a Bomb.

Iran is currently being protected from Israeli Bombing of it's Nuclear Sites by the United States as the U.S. has forbidden Israel to Bomb sites that would shoot radioactive Material into the Air and Poison much of the Middle East.

Iran has made threats to close the Strait of Hormuz as well as Destroy Israel. If Iran either attempts to Close the Strait or declare they have Nuclear Weapons...the U.S. Military will be forced to go in.

These are the REALITIES....Iran has made it's own bed. Split Infinity



Iran has made it's own bed?

There are two ways of looking at world events-

1- The political and MSM angle- which is basically everything you discuss. These are the points of discussion, the debate as it were to make it appear as though there are choices and 'considerations' to make on the issue- such as Obama waiting for sanctions to work.

2- The actual actual policy makers, whose only intention is regime change. They want nothing but regime change to be favourable for US interests in the region.

This is what I'm trying to make people see, number 1 is just smoke and mirrors because regime change has already been decided.

When you understand that it has already been decided, that's when you understand just how corrupt democarcy is, because right now, Obama is holding Israel back. The war has already been planned yet there is this game of charades playing out where Obama is pretending America is not planning for war.

What the politicians and MSM say is just a game, a political game. I don't doubt your intelligence for a second splitinfinity, but you won't see the truth on this issue until you drop all these political notions and appreciate the war was planned many years in advance and all this 'talk' of sanctions, diplomacy, Uranium enrichment, the threat to Israel etc is all an illusion that is fed to the public.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 

It's often a good idea to drop our preconceived opinions and examine things afresh. Would you help me out a little? I looked through your OP to find some facts that I could create new opinions from, but all I found were your opinions and your assumptions. Would you point out your facts, please? Oh, and are you dropping your preconceived opinions?


I never assumed anything in my OP. All my info literally comes from the horse's mouth- the foreign policy makers hardly hide their agenda from public view if you take the time to look.

I've done enough research into the groups of analysts and experts that make policy, these groups do not hide their agenda in the slightest. I'm not making opinions here, I am repeating what the analysts have been saying for a few years now.

Not once has the MSM discussed American policy as regime change in Iran, yet the CFR, Brookings, all the major foreign policy documents openly discuss regime change as the number one priority to switch it to a regime more favourable to US interests.

That is the reality of the situation. As that is fact, all the politics and pretend diplomacy from Obama right now is just a waiting stage in the game.

There are two ways this war will start-

1- Israel leads the way and America intervenes to help her ally when Iran responds (America seen as the good guy). ((IMO, this is the route they will take. I can't back that up with facts, but that is my personal opinion.))

- A false flag is used and America is forced to respond (America seen as the good guy).

edit on 10-9-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 

OK...without preconceived notions...lets just look at the facts.

Iran has broken the NPT in just about every way and thus it must either change it's current behavior and abide by the Treaty or face Sanctions and possible Military action.

Iran has admitted to building Tens of Thousands of Centrifuges to enrich Uranium and there is only one reason why this many centrifuges would be built and that is to enrich enough Uranium to Weapons Grade for use in a Bomb.

Iran is currently being protected from Israeli Bombing of it's Nuclear Sites by the United States as the U.S. has forbidden Israel to Bomb sites that would shoot radioactive Material into the Air and Poison much of the Middle East.

Iran has made threats to close the Strait of Hormuz as well as Destroy Israel. If Iran either attempts to Close the Strait or declare they have Nuclear Weapons...the U.S. Military will be forced to go in.

These are the REALITIES....Iran has made it's own bed. Split Infinity



If Iran declare they have Nukes then this daytime soap opera acting can stop.

Why would the US want to start a war with Iran if they declared they had Nukes, Why?

Would this not allow nuclear warfare to show its destructive hand again? At the hands of the US again!



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by ronnieray123

Originally posted by munkey66

Originally posted by ronnieray123

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by ronnieray123
 


So my history or maths must be screwed up
I always thought 1953 Iranian coup d'état (operation Ajax) happened before November 4, 1979, to January 20, 1981.

Britain (Churchill) and the United States (Eisenhower administration) decided to overthrow Iran's government




and what punishment did Churchill and Eisenhower get?


Good lord your skull is thick!
WTF does Churchill or Eisenhower and those people have to do with each other??
I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT. I will type slowly so you can better understand what I am saying.

The bastards took 52 of my countrymen and held them hostage for 444 days........do you get it now??
They did not put them on a plane and tell them to leave the country and never come back. They did not charge them with a crime and put them on trial. They put guns to their heads and threatened to murder them all in cold blood............You do not do that to my countrymen and not expect me to await the day for revenge.
So you go right ahead and keep giving me history lessons all you want and I will keep looping back to the same reason, the only reason I want to see them wiped off the planet.......Boze drogi jestes glupi
edit on 10-9-2012 by ronnieray123 because: (no reason given)


No my friend it is you who should ask God for forgiveness of your stupidness.

You lose everything when trying to call others stupid and thinking they wont understand and i think its also against the sites terms and conditions to call posters stupid.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by ronnieray123
reply to post by flice
 


Like I said, some innocent Iranians will perish because of the actions of their fathers.......and I am ok with that. Innocent people die everyday and the world keeps right on turning.like nothing ever happened.

In my view everyone wins when Iran is pile of rubbish and I will NEVER be convinced otherwise


These three sentences alone tell me it it is completely impossible to attempt any reason and logic in response to your rantings, they would only be wasted on you.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by ronnieray123
 


You bitter deluded old man,you really think Iran should apologize for hostage situation 30 years ago,despite all that the US is done to that country for ages?! and that is your crippled justification for invading yet another country?!....You better thank god that they got away the easy way.... Happened in any other country and they would have wasted them all, right in the spot....It is because of people like you that increasingly more and more people around the world are hating US,and i frankly don't blame them a bit.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by flice

The Iranians themselves wants to rid of Ahme & Co. but it's bloody hard to take the first step. Just like the average American they still haven't been pushed far enough and haven't found the courage to be the first to start a revolution.


But if I help them in their stated goal of regime change I'm evil...

Sorry, Iran deserves everything they have coming.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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"Our freedom's a joke, we're just takin' a piss // and the whole world must watch the sad comic display // if you're still free, start runnin' away... (cause' we're comin' for ya!)"



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by Foundryman

Originally posted by flice

The Iranians themselves wants to rid of Ahme & Co. but it's bloody hard to take the first step. Just like the average American they still haven't been pushed far enough and haven't found the courage to be the first to start a revolution.


But if I help them in their stated goal of regime change I'm evil...

Sorry, Iran deserves everything they have coming.


Why do you hate the people of Iran? Focus your energies on the corrupt politicians of the world's governments, who are the real source of evil. The people of Iran are good people, I have many Iranian friends they are some of the best on Earth. And when even your right to free speech is abolished, you will have deserved that.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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in reality america can't afford another mideast war.

it's used up its last chip.

after iraq and george bush's lies, america has no credibility in the world stage. it will get no international help, troops or u.n. support.

after claiming saddam had wmd who's going to believe america when it says iran has nukes.

now its israel crying nukes, but they're just getting ignored and the u.s. is strangely very quiet with its claims.

the u.s. has cried wolf and now nobody believes them.





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