Say a phrase, and you are saved...

reply to post by jhill76


Some of those phrases may not be utterable until or unless one has reached a certain level or tone or maturity in one's relationship with God.

Is it even possible to truly confess with the heart if one has yet to invite Christ into one's heart?

I'm pretty sure that uttering dead words by rote will not earn a pearly gate pass.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
In many ways your link supports my point. People do not understand what Paul was writing. Everything is taken either out of context or simply misunderstood.

Peter agrees when he says this.

Very true. Although I made a thread earlier about Paul being the antichrist, maybe not. But Christians twist his potentially anti-christian teachings to a new height! Christians today often oppose even his teachings, towards a more evil direction!

See this, they add to Paul's words!! "Some are called to be apostles, some pastors, some evangelists..." and Christians twist this to "some are called engineers, some lawyers....". Pathetic!! It would have been a lot more honest if you tell that you work for money!!

They oppose Paul... "They look to following God as a means to financial gain" Just ask any Christian the relationship between and money and God and bingo! God will help you in your finances!! NO! God only promises to provide your basic needs - food and clothing!

Among many others!

Peter told everyone what to do.

"37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
(Acts 2:37-39 KJV)

This is the only true salvation by grace through faith.

"By their fruits, you will know them"

Anyone want to take a head count as to how these words apply to "christians" and non alike? Does it not seem a tad odd that the non crowd is coming out ahead numbers wise? I have run into well more pagans, atheists, ex christians, and the like who are producing better fruit than "christians" !

Food for thought (pun intended).

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by babloyi
Well, obviously it isn't just the words.

It is the conviction and intent behind them.

But, this is not explained. I have observed this on many occasions, in many different places on this Earth. As long as the person says it, they are saved.

Well, it IS explained, you just aren't looking hard enough. Have you ever heard of "Thou Shalt Not Lie"? Or "Thou Shalt Not Hold False Gods Before Me"? When you make that commitment and declaration, it is assuming that you mean it and it is what is truly in your heart; IE telling the truth.

If you think you can utter some words and trick God into forgiving your sins, well, good luck with that.

reply to post by axslinger

Well, it IS explained, you just aren't looking hard enough. Have you ever heard of "Thou Shalt Not Lie"? Or "Thou Shalt Not Hold False Gods Before Me"? When you make that commitment and declaration, it is assuming that you mean it and it is what is truly in your heart; IE telling the truth. If you think you can utter some words and trick God into forgiving your sins, well, good luck with that.

I see that you do not follow my posts on here, to know my intent in that in which I write. I know of these things, I am asking why do the preachers that say this, do not explain this to the churchgoers.

reply to post by jhill76


I don't think it's wise to use the exception to define the rule. You are lumping all preachers into a very small sub-set which is illogical.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

I don't think it's wise to use the exception to define the rule. You are lumping all preachers into a very small sub-set which is illogical.

I have the ability to view this on a grand scale and it is not a small sub-set, but a much larger set than you know.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

In many ways your link supports my point. People do not understand what Paul was writing. Everything is taken either out of context or simply misunderstood.

... and never mind that, without Paul, and the mission that Christ set him upon, salvation through Christ is only for Jews, who are under the Law, so Christianity died out in the Second or Third Century.

No, it never fails that, when asked for instances of Paul directly contradicting Christ, the only things that come forth are passages that are taken out of context or which are interpreted incorrectly.

reply to post by jhill76


From what 'I' understand Jesus was connected to the Creator as the triple helix to the double variety.
For this reason, the king of Israel was made the fool time and again when he would attempt to debate him.

"To Live by the Conscience" as man did prepapyrus, preprinting press, pre-speech.
To Acknowledge and respect one's Creator.
To Live by the 'Golden Rule' complemented by the 'Hypocratic Oath'.
To view another as a Soul rather than a flesh 'container'.
Though, I could be wrong.
"I" just don't think so.

Take Care and Kind Regards.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

As for the once saved always saved doctrine, it's based on salvation not coming by anything we have done by works. That it is a gift of love free of merit that we did not deserve and could never earn and because we never merited salvation to begin with, it will not be taken away on our merits. A gift is not a gift if it comes with conditions, such as the conditional covenants God made with Israel prior to the second covenant.

Entering through the gates of Heaven is not the gift. "Saved", in terms of something outside of us, that was done for us, was the works of Jesus as our savior, to create a way for us to be better persons than we could be otherwise, by Jesus vanquishing the hold that sin has on us, and to provide the way for the spirit from God to dwell in us to good works.
What you are doing is parroting a distorted philosophy and not real understanding of the teachings of the Bible.

edit on 11-9-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

Actually i think i understand quite well. Good luck with not commiting any sin since the day you were "saved" till the day you die. I can gaurantee that you've already failed. Making you a better person does not make you a perfect person and if you think you are perfect than you have committed the sins of pride and vanity. A change of spirit perhaps, but not a change of this corrupted body which our spirits war with ceaselessly. Until we're made anew with a new uncorrupted body we will never be perfect. We can see from what happened between John Mark and Paul and their falling out that the Apostles were not perfect either, they still had their own battles.

What you are doing is parroting a distorted philosophy and not real understanding of the teachings of the Bible.

All you do is parrot SDA philosophy for God's honest truth, hows about a little less fingerpointing hm?

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

I don't think it's wise to use the exception to define the rule. You are lumping all preachers into a very small sub-set which is illogical.

I have the ability to view this on a grand scale and it is not a small sub-set, but a much larger set than you know.

Irrelevant. It's still a massive fallacy to define any rule by the exception.

The sinner on the cross next to Jesus had to mutter his belief and that was that. Ticket to Heaven.

I think it would take quite a bit of being Judas to make a "back-slider". Even then I doubt it works.

I think when you die you judge yourself and if you can't find the evidence you won't "release" yourself.

If knowing John 3:16 works for you and you remember it when you die that will probably "release" you.

God will judge your actual sins after that.

Originally posted by reaganero
The sinner on the cross next to Jesus had to mutter his belief and that was that. Ticket to Heaven.

It was fairly evident that he was actually sorry for what he'd done, and had a love for Christ in his heart -- I doubt the guy on the other side would have been saved, even if he'd mouthed the same words.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by reaganero
The sinner on the cross next to Jesus had to mutter his belief and that was that. Ticket to Heaven.

It was fairly evident that he was actually sorry for what he'd done, and had a love for Christ in his heart -- I doubt the guy on the other side would have been saved, even if he'd mouthed the same words.

Well I agree, but he didn't spend a lifetime proving his faith. He basically chose then and there to "believe".

So, if a little child, say 5 years old, "believes" and says those words and dies the next day same deal right?

Originally posted by reaganero

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by reaganero
The sinner on the cross next to Jesus had to mutter his belief and that was that. Ticket to Heaven.

It was fairly evident that he was actually sorry for what he'd done, and had a love for Christ in his heart -- I doubt the guy on the other side would have been saved, even if he'd mouthed the same words.

Well I agree, but he didn't spend a lifetime proving his faith. He basically chose then and there to "believe".

So, if a little child, say 5 years old, "believes" and says those words and dies the next day same deal right?

Well, I'm not sure that a person's age is of any relevance -- I break with Augustine on the necessity of infant baptism, as that seems to be more a point of argument for him as regards the specific heresy that he was addressing.

However, to the point, no, you don't have to "spend a lifetime" believing and doing anything -- if one was to truly believe, repent of their sins, and accept Christ as their saviour, they could be shot in the face the next instant, and they would be saved (in my opinion -- there are reasonable arguments that would disagree.)

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Another trouble maker - Paul was an apostle who directly received revelation of the gospel and was sent by God. To hell with you.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by adjensen


Could you please put what he said into context for me?

1. On the time of the coming of the Lord:


Paul says:

Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.


Jesus says:

Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.

Are you ignoring Jesus' warning to ignore Paul when he says the day has come? If not, please put that into the correct context please.

13. On your father:


Paul says:

1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Phlm.1
[10] I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.


Jesus says:

Matt.23

[9] And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

This is the best one to me. Are you ignoring Jesus when you decide to call Paul father? Since I am taking him out of context, could put it back into context for me? From my point of view, he is extremely clear in what he says.

He calls himself father, why would Jesus say not to call any man father then turn around and tell a Roman (one who killed his followers) the complete opposite in a dream/vision that cannot be verified other than by the man who previously killed early disciples?

I'm putting emphasis on Romans and their persecutions because that is the part you are ignoring.

Funny how Jesus waits until after he dies to tell one of his persecutors about faith and salvation. It almost seems like the Romans waited until after they killed off most of his followers to come up with this story.

I find it fascinating that you refuse to see the obvious. You are so thoroughly indoctrinated that you refuse to see it for fear of punishment in hell.

Link

reply to post by axslinger


Actually, i have never heard of "thou shalt not lie" because it does not exist. The commandment is: "Thou shalt not give false testimony against thy neighbour."

HUGE HUGE difference.