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posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

. . . rebuke and exhort with all authority . . .
The claim to authority was by the person who wrote 2 Timothy, with that giving instruction to go out and preach, presumably the Apostle. It is not saying that whoever takes it upon himself to preach is somehow imbued with authority.

. . . subjects and themes that churches seem to avoid.
Normal churches (not of the Maxwell cult) do not get into those ideas because they are bunk, to make it simple. Cults take a few words, usually between 3 and 5, out of a verse and distort its meaning, and deceive about its context, to support a harebrained scheme the cult leader invented.

The biggest one being that the church and Israel are the same.
The church is the new Israel. Your cult tries to make out that the old Israel is something the church needs to incorporate itself into, which is wrong, and why you are in a cult.

He never said there were not Jews.
Watch the video again, he says "there are no Jews".

The northern kingdom of Israel is totally separate and distinct from Jews.
"Jews" is a term that came into common usage after Jesus' earthly ministry. The term "Jews" in the Gospel of John was a reference to the high priests and leaders connected with the temple in Jerusalem.

They were divorced by God for their harlotry thanks to King Solomon following after other gods due to his wives and in fulfillment of the prophecy of Ephraim and Manasseh.
No, they were not "divorced", the king was killed and none ever replaced him.

Jews are not all twelve tribes of Israel. Jews are made up of two tribes and some of a third tribe.
"Jews" is a term made up well after the fact, and comes into play in the rabbinical period, starting out prior to, and near, the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem (by the Romans in 70 AD). It originally meant those of the ruling class who returned to the Judean region under the Persian rule, after the fall of Babylon. Then later it meant those who were in power in Jerusalem in connection with the temple. After the destruction of the temple, "Jew" became to be commonly used to describe anyone from the area of the former Davidic kingdom and who were of the religion that was connected to the Jerusalem temple. Today, "Jew" is virtually synonymous with "Israelite", meaning those who believe they are following that ancient form of religion described in what Christians call the Old Testament.

The Jews are not all twelve tribes. This is all straight from Scripture, with no biased opinions of any sort.
Individuals were not referred to in the OT as "Jews". Someone could be described as a member of the Tribe of Judah, but there was no word, "Jew" except for in the book of Esther, which was a much later book and had to do specifically with the transported Judean aristocracy.

It is not cult theology if everything is straight from Scripture.
It is, because it is not. These people are lying, you just don't realize it yet because you haven't had time to look all that stuff up and do the proper research. They are playing on your ignorance and gullibility and desire to feel special. That is how cults work.
edit on 7-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19




posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 05:20 AM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

I have never agreed with Herbert W Armstrong or British Israelism.
[color=DarkSlateGray]..Where is the speaker (in the video you mentioned earlier) teaching something different than those two groups? He does not mention anything about the British but I don't see where what he is saying rules that out. I'm not really an expert in all the various splinter groups that came from Maxwell but I see whoever this group is, being represented by this video, as one of them.

[color=DarkSlateGray]..What we have evidence of today is that there was a group of people who shared basically the same Torah as the Jews but worshiped on a different mountain, in Samaria. From that, one could surmise that this could be the origin of the old testament story of a northern kingdom that represented the other groups of the mythical "Twelve Tribes" that we don't know for sure ever really existed.

[color=DarkSlateGray]..Once someone was to just accept the story as if it was a fact, then from there you could go along with a theory that there were these tribes that got absorbed into an empire, and along with that, an insertion of foreign settlers, of that same empire, resulting in this myth that there are these "lost tribes" out there somewhere wandering the earth. Makes a good source of material to develop further works of fiction but it does not lead to a better sense of reality.

[color=DarkSlateGray]..The earth is a place with a long history of different ethnic groups migrating from one place to another and Palestine, situated at the crossroads of three continents, had more than its fair share. But generally speaking, the area in the time frame in question was called Canaan, the land of the Canaanites, and there wasn't a kingdom called Israel or a people called Hebrews other than a type of traders by that name (Hebrews) who would do business in neighboring countries but were not distinguished as being anything other than Canaanites.
edit on 8-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

Just because we are not "under the Law" does that make us above the Law? If one is convicted of a crime and spared the death penalty, does that mean that He can again commit the crime over and over just because the death penalty was spared? Hardly.
Dead . . that's the term Paul uses.
We are dead as far as the law (the old, supposedly "mosaic" law) is concerned.
That spirit, the natural one that made us alive . . is gone, replaced by a new spirit from Jesus.
That is Christianity and if you don't buy it, be sure to put a disclaimer in your posts notifying any readers that though you may superficially bear a certain resemblance to a Christian, you are in fact a cultist.



posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

If the Law is done, then why is it said:
Numbers 15:15 "One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance FOREVER in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD."
"This is a lasting ordinance", that both groups live by the same law.

Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I CHANGE NOT; therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed."
This would actually argue against your case. It is pointing out the consistency of relationship with the "children of Jacob" where there wasn't a law until after Moses, so it is talking about a more basic relationship that transcends the absence or existence of a "Law".

Psalm 119:160 "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."
God is an honest and equitable judge



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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I am not in a cult nor am I a cultist. I am simply a Bible believer. Yahweh's Word to mankind is forever and does not change. How can anything I have put forth be a cult belief if it is straight from Scripture? I am inviting you to put this information to the Scriptural test, and yet you have failed to do so. You have not provided one Scripture that says contrary to the Law being over. This fact alone is why Jews will never accept the Messiah. Because the Scriptures tell them to.



resulting in this myth that there are these "lost tribes" out there somewhere wandering the earth.


Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES WHICH ARE SCATTERED ABROAD, GREETING."

John 7:35 "Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the DISPERSED AMONG THE GENTILES, and teach the Gentiles?"

Isaiah 56:8 "The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him."

Ezekiel 34:12 "As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day."

Luke 19:10 "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."

John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls."

This is straight from Scripture, not from a biased opinion of anyone. You cannot deny this. This is the Word of God saying this, not man. This is in no way taking a few Scriptures and making doctrine by twisting them. Is that not what the pastors of America especially, and others around the world do? You say that I am taking Scriptures and twisting them out of context, yet I have provided plenty of context and parallels which we are to know. The Spirit will lead us into all truth, and we do not need that any man teach us.

1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

Phillipians 3:15 "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you"

Galations 5:10 "I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be."

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."

A mature believer will not need anyone to teach them, but shall teach others to also be mature in the Word and not babes still in need of milk. Of course we can all learn from each other, that is not the problem. The problem is false doctrines have crept into the churches and men rely on "experts" to teach them. This is also a problem because the pastors should not stand in between men and Christ. The head of every man is Christ.

My brother I am saying this in love, that you might turn from the traditions of men and come back to the ways of Yahweh.



hey are playing on your ignorance and gullibility and desire to feel special.


Matthew 5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

Luke 6:35 "But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil."

Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God."

Acts 10:34 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"

John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."

I am not special in any way. Anyone who glorifies themselves over Him is a liar and has no part with Him. Give Yahweh the glory, not man. I am just an ordinary man like any other, only we must strive to be obedient that our faith be made perfect.





edit on 11-11-2012 by yahushuasaves because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Titus 1:13 "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;"

1 Peter 4:11 "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

If Yahweh would like us to speak with authority instead of being unsure, then why are you testing me?

Romans 12:3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Isaiah 5:21 "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"

Always give Yahweh the glory, and put away the pride of your hearts. For we are to even walk with the outcasts as He did that we might bring them all to Him. Remember the story of the supper?

Luke 14:21 "So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind."

We must walk as He walked, even if that means that men who think they are saved must be cast away. For if they do not turn, then He will not heal. Yet if a sinner turns from their error instead of one who thinks they are fine they will be justified and the other condemned.
edit on 11-11-2012 by yahushuasaves because: additions



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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If we are to let the Jewish people know about our Savior, then we have to make it clear that He never did away with the Law. Salvation is for all who will come to faith in Him, and the Gentile shall be grafted into Israel. Why do you think Jews reject Christ so easily without a second thought? It is because popular Christianity teaches the opposite of the Torah. Christ came to fulfill and fully expand upon Torah, not throw it out. His Law is forever at least until Heaven and Earth are made new. Many Scriptures point to this fact. If anyone teaches differently they are a false teacher. Not to say that someone cannot be honestly ignorant. We must bring the Torah back into the hearts of the sheep. It is not too difficult. Yahweh is restoring His ways again. He is coming soon.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

I am not in a cult nor am I a cultist.
You probably have a definition of what a cult is that was given to you by your cult, that is especially tailored to exclude your group.

I am simply a Bible believer.
That is the best way to have a cult that you can lure in unsuspecting people who were brought up to believe in the Bible. The way cults do their deluding is by cherry picking from diverse passages, ignoring the context and the regular explanations that are available in regular Christianity.

Yahweh's Word to mankind is forever and does not change.
That is obviously wrong because there was no demand of offering sacrifices by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Abraham had no law and lived by faith. The Israelites had a tabernacle that moved from place to place, not a fixed stone constructed temple that stood in one spot and only that one spot was permissible for offering sacrifices.

How can anything I have put forth be a cult belief if it is straight from Scripture?
Because it is taken out of context and lies are attached to it by way of explanation.

I am inviting you to put this information to the Scriptural test, and yet you have failed to do so.
I have been giving you explanations which you apparently have no answer to. How about you at least try to answer my objections rather than copying more verses from your cult's web site?
Now I realize I did not get all the way through the list you already put up but it is not from lack of ability but it takes time and I have been busy the last week, and I plan to do more work on answers as I have opportunity.

You have not provided one Scripture that says contrary to the Law being over. This fact alone is why Jews will never accept the Messiah. Because the Scriptures tell them to.
What? Tell then to do what? I think "the Jews" did accept Jesus. What we have today going by the name "Jews" are converts from the Caucasus region in Medieval times, and as far as I am concerned have nothing to do with the promises, and did not exist at the time the New Testament was written. I don't believe that the Ashkenazi are part of the "lost tribes", and don't expect them to ever become Christians because they rejected that option back when their three choices were: Christianity, Islam, or Judaism.
edit on 12-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." . . .

. . . This is in no way taking a few Scriptures and making doctrine by twisting them.
Yet it is. Lucky for you that you have taken your cult teachings to this web site that has someone who studies normal Christianity and can set you straight.
Did your cult tell you to compare that verse with Matthew 10?

Jesus called his twelve disciples and gave them authority . . .
Jesus sent out these twelve, instructing them as follows: “Do not go to Gentile regions and do not enter any Samaritan town. Go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near!’


There is the explanation as to what Jesus meant, and they were people who lived close by that the disciples could be sent out to without provisions.
edit on 12-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I am not trying to prove a point or be right for the sake of being so. I am quoting from the King James version of the Bible and not from some "Hebraic" movement website. A cult is something like Jim Jones' or Branch Davidian belief systems that hold men as gods and alter what the text actually means. In the so called "Hebraic" movement, the believers are always sure to have people examine their doctrine to see if it lines up. It is not simply "follow me because I am right." This is certainly a good aspect that most people in mainstream Christianity do not practice. Again, I am not advocating cults or anything similar to them. I figured that teaching would help explain Two House Theology which is Scriptural and not biased interpretation.

The Scriptures are very clear and an interpretation cannot just be forced on them if they are clear themselves. Only when men take bits and pieces and use it as doctrine making material do we get the problems of the churches today. It does not matter if a man has 10 degrees. These modern day Pharisess are lawless men. Just because one went to school means nothing if it does not agree with actual Scripture. Paul said concerning people who commend themselves:

2 Corinthians 3:1 "Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?"

2 Corinthians 10:12 "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."

2 Corinthians 10:18 "For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth."

Now concerning the Law are you calling Isaiah and Jeremiah false prophets? The Law abolishing paradigm makes them so by default. This is obviously not the case.

Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Jeremiah 6:26 "Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, WE WILL NOT WALK IN IT.

In James we are informed that the Law or Torah is freedom and in the Psalms as well. In fact in James it is called perfect and this is New Testament writing.

James 2:12 "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."

James 1:25 "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed."

Psalm 119:45 "And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts."

Did Paul who is so often used to support lawlessness say we are free from the Torah or from death by it?

Romans 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Romans 2:13 "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

As for the Tabernacle issue, the temple was built by Solomon and not by David on account of David being a man of blood, and Yahweh permitted it to be built. The inside was furnished with pieces of the Tabernacle, by Solomon. Deuteronomy 16:6 "But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt." Sacrifices are only for the place in which God chooses for a dwelling for His name and only Levitical Priests can do it. This is in the context of Passover, yet even Deuteronomy 12:11 states:

Deuteronomy 12:11 "Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:"

So the Temple in no way breaks this commandment.

1 Kings 8:4 "And they brought up the ark of the LORD, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and all the holy vessels that were in the tabernacle, even those did the priests and the Levites bring up."

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve still had "instructions" or Torah to follow. Not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The first five books of Moses are not to just be tossed aside as they are the "instruction" for a post-Garden mankind. Yet before they were written by Moses they were still valid for righteousness. They had no need of sacrifice as they were without sin at that time. As for Abraham:



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:02 AM
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Galatians 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."

Genesis 26:5 "Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Abraham obviously kept His requirements and yes was justified by faith. Yet in obedience our faith is made a well pleasing faith to God. Again it must be said: grace through faith saves us, yet obedience keeps us in right standing by our faith. Does that make sense? I cannot speak on my own authority. Even the Messiah spoke in the authority of the Father. He and the Father are also one. A hard concept for a finite mind to grasp I know, yet that means His Father's commandments and His are one and the same.

The Gentile regions referred to would be pagan sun (or other) worshipping God denying Gentiles. The lost sheep themselves became Gentiles, but that does not contradict His commandment. Also, have you considered the mystery of the Gospel as Paul gave it? That the Messiah came so that we could be grafted in or back into the covenants of Israel. That by His blood mankind could be saved, and the divorced tribes could also be restored. This is the mystery of the Gospel. It is hard to take it all in, but if you trust the Spirit to lead you and not men and their tradition the truth indeed does set you free.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

A cult is something like Jim Jones' or Branch Davidian belief systems that hold men as gods and alter what the text actually means.
Interesting that you give David Koresh as an example of a cult. The idea that he was some sort of god to the members of his church I think is just media hype. He was a teacher, and his church was so people could listen to his teachings. You could listen to a lecture by him on YouTube, "David Koresh Sermon THE 7TH ANGELS MESSAGE pt 1.wmv". Where they go off from the Seventh Day Adventist Church is this belief that there will be a revival with the Jews all of a sudden accepting Jesus and entering into the church to be the 144,000.
The difference between Koresh and the preacher you listen to is the times and the advancement of technology where now you don't have to stay at the Mount Carmel compound to get all the lessons, since now you can download videos on the internet.

In the so called "Hebraic" movement, the believers are always sure to have people examine their doctrine to see if it lines up.
Lines up with . . what? A set of established cult doctrines? My guess would be . . yes, and why I call it a cult, because there is a whole set of a theological system that the member is expected to accept in whole, that covers all aspects. You either accept the whole in one big bite (having faith in whoever assembled this set of doctrines) and are then admitted, or you only buy into part and are refused acceptance into the group as a member in good standing. That is what a cult is. You have what I suggested in my last post, a tailored definition of what a cult is, so you think because you are not living in Guiana that you are not in a cult.

This is certainly a good aspect that most people in mainstream Christianity do not practice.
A board of cult orthodoxy inquisition?

Again, I am not advocating cults or anything similar to them.
You are advocating ideas you picked up from a cult or cults.
edit on 13-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Yes, especially concerning the idea that Christians were under the law of Moses. That matter was settled in Acts chapter 15 by Peter and James.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



That was not what the Jerusalem Council was about. The Jerusalem Council was about works of the Law being salvation and forcing Gentiles into their Gospel. Not that the Law is not for "Christians." Paul made it clear that we should NOT accept works for salvation. New converts cannot be made to do this that or the other to be saved. They were proclaiming a works salvation Gospel, which is utterly false. Works do not save. The Law does not save. The Messiah's sacrifice saves us, and God's grace through faith. That is salvation. Yahushua is salvation. Not the Law. Yet He is the Word in the flesh. He and the Father are also one. If God and Jesus Christ are one, then that would mean that the Law of Moses is also for us today. Consider this: how do we prove to Yahweh and to others that we are saved? What is the fruit of salvation? Christ Himself said:

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you,TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL be fulfilled."

Luke 16:17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"

Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind"

2 Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Psalm 119:52 "Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever."

Psalm 119:89 "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."

Psalm 119:142 "Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Obviously without any sort of bias, or private interpretation, the Law is for today. From the Messiah's own mouth. Heaven and Earth being made new is the last prophetic major event in Scripture, which has not happened yet and will not happen until after the Millenium. This is the day that no man knows the day or hour of. The day that heaven and Earth pass away. It has no real time given to it at all, so thus is unknown. If the first heaven and earth are still here, then the Law is still in effect. This is undeniable. Even in 2 Peter we are warned that distorting Paul's writings leads to the error of the lawless.

2 Peter 3:15 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;"

2 Peter 3:16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

2 Peter 3:17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."

Also Jesus says:

"John 14:24 "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and THE WORD WHICH YE HEAR IS NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHER'S WHO SENT ME."

Christ never spoke outside of the Law or the Prophets when it came to Scripture. The Law is at least until heaven and earth pass away. Acts 15 is about legalism, not simply obeying out of love after having been saved. Paul says many times that the Law is good and he himself was obedient to it. See here in Acts:

Acts 15:19 "Therefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:"

They were not to be forced to do every little thing right away. Especially not for salvation. Works do not save. Such a thing would overwhelm them. The heart must be ready first. We must obey the Law out of love, not out of our own works and legalism. I cannot make these things up. That would be a horrible mistake. We cannot speak on our own authority on Scripture.





edit on 16-11-2012 by yahushuasaves because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Zechariah 1:4 "Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye now from your evil ways, and from your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me, saith the LORD."

Jeremiah 6:17 "Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken."

Isaiah 58:1 "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."

Jeremiah 6:19 "Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, NOR TO MY LAW, BUT REJECTED IT."

This is not just to be right, but a stern warning of repentance. Come back to Him. Do you think that God cannot use a forum to tell His people something? Do you think such a thing would be too small for Him? The Spirit wants to help us keep His Law not throw it away. Time is very short, follow Him not the traditions of men. Very soon Antichrist will come, and if the Book of Daniel says he shows favor to those who forsake the Law, then do not be in that number of people. The deception will be so great that even you may be deceived.



posted on Nov, 16 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

Consider this: how do we prove to Yahweh and to others that we are saved? What is the fruit of salvation? Christ Himself said:
The New Testament does not ever use the name, Yahweh, so I don't think we need to worry about that person, since now we have a better representative of God than that angel of the desert that Moses conversed with. We have the very son of God himself, Jesus as Lord and the one who has taken the title of the I Am.
God will save who He will so the very idea that we need to prove to God that we are saved is ridiculous.
I don't see there being any mention in the New Testament the idea of proving that we are saved, and for that, I don't see any mention of anyone being saved other than that being used in the English translation to describe being taken from the worldly life of sin and to be set apart to live a life acceptable to God.
I don't recall Jesus talking about anyone having "the fruits of salvation". The people themselves are the fruit for the harvest in Jesus' terminology. People are to do the honorable thing towards others and while doing his ministry, he did mention some of those things described in the moral code that people of faith should live by. I don't see it as any kind of ringing endorsement of the books the people had written purporting to have been by or about a legendary person called Moses.

They were proclaiming a works salvation Gospel, which is utterly false.
Who was? According to the fictional version in Acts, the Apostles assumed people had to become Jews. Somehow they were convinced otherwise. The fictional explanation has it by good arguments by Paul, a convenient character to place in the story, as a representative of the idea that gentiles can be saved too.
What you seem to be advocating is a reversal of that process of changing the paradigm, and going back to everyone having to become Jews, which is what you have if people are going about keeping the Jewish Law.
edit on 16-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 05:38 AM
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Jews cannot claim ownership to the Law. Neither can they be the owners of the promises to Israel. They are only a small part of Israel. If you understand the difference between "Jews" and the House of Israel Scripture makes a lot more sense. The New Testament God is not any less than the Old Testament God. They are one and the same, regardless of the four letters being used or not. Of course the Messiah is the best representation of God there could be for us as He is now the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, and He and the Father are one. In Second Coming prophecies about the Day of The LORD (YHWH) we see they describe the coming of the Messiah on the "clouds of heaven" and on the Day of YHWH. God has authority over men. They are one. If God is the Logos or Word which was in the beginning with God, and the Word was made flesh in the Messiah, then the Old Testament God is very much valid and alive. He will once again tabernacle with men and be King over all the earth and it will be very soon.


I don't see there being any mention in the New Testament the idea of proving that we are saved, and for that, I don't see any mention of anyone being saved other than that being used in the English translation to describe being taken from the worldly life of sin and to be set apart to live a life acceptable to God.


James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

James 2:20 "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

1 John 3:7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous."

1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW."

Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Are you sure about that? Jesus Himself is saying that if you break even the smallest commandments and teach men so, you shall be least in the kingdom. As for fruit:

Matthew 7:18 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

Proverbs 28:9 "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination."

John 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."

1 John 2:3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."

Certainly keeping the Law has something to do with bearing fruit. Scripture cannot be broken and Proverbs 28:9 is very clear on how God feels about turning a deaf ear to the Law.

As for the last point, Paul was not saying that the Law saves Gentiles. Grace through faith in the Messiah our sacrifice and His resurrection saves us, as well as them, but because of that salvation the Law is our light and liberty. After being saved we are not to continue sinning and trample underfoot His grace. We must follow the Law out of a loving obedience to our Father. If a man tells his children his rules are simply done away with because they are not listening to them, that would be absurd and a crazy parent. The rules still stand. Same concept applies here. The whole point Paul was trying to make is that salvation is not of works. They said a convert had to take a certain number of steps to be saved, when in fact grace through faith is what saves. Then comes following the Law. Not the other way around. It is not FOLLOW LAW= SALVATION but GRACE+FAITH=SALVATION. SALVATION+FOLLOW THE LAW= PERFECT LIVING FAITH. Faith by itself without action is a dead faith.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by yahushuasaves
 

If you understand the difference between "Jews" and the House of Israel Scripture makes a lot more sense.
The OT is using the term, "House of Israel" addressing the people in Judea, and you have to assume it meant who we think of today as Jews, though at that time, "the Jews" meant those who were the returnees from the Babylonian captivity. I have to think that it meant the people who followed the same religion as the Jews, and accepted the temple in Jerusalem as the sole authorized place of sacrifice to The Lord.
On that video, Jim Staley - Identity Crisis -This message will change your world!, that you mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, he says Josephus said in his time there were people in the area who knew their tribal affiliation, that included all twelve tribes.

The New Testament God is not any less than the Old Testament God.
I doubt that anyone who studies the Bible thinks that. The Lord seems to be a normal person in places, such as when He was on His way to Sodom, and stopped for lunch with Abraham.

They are one and the same, regardless of the four letters being used or not.
The "four letters" being an alternative Baal type storm god that ended up in the Old Testament probably to distinguish the Israelite's baal from the baals of the other nations.

Of course the Messiah is the best representation of God there could be for us as He is now the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, and He and the Father are one.
There is no "order of Melchizedek". Do you think there is a priestly order of Melchizedek? The Greek word is taxis, which also means, "after the fashion of . . .". As Melchizedek had no parents (according to the legend at the time he lived), so Jesus has no predecessors because he existed with God at the beginning of creation.

In Second Coming prophecies about the Day of The LORD (YHWH) we see they describe the coming of the Messiah on the "clouds of heaven" and on the Day of YHWH.
There aren't any "Second Coming prophecies". Maybe there are some that you think are, but you are mistaken, in my opinion. There is a Day of the Lord, but it is not a second coming, it is a day of judgment.

God has authority over men. They are one.
If you are trying to say they are the same person, then it does not say that, and on the contrary describes two people, at least in the NT.

If God is the Logos or Word which was in the beginning with God, and the Word was made flesh in the Messiah, then the Old Testament God is very much valid and alive. He will once again tabernacle with men and be King over all the earth and it will be very soon.
I don't know about your messiah, but my Messiah is king over all the earth right now. John 1 says the word was with God and the word was God. It seems to me to be describing something which is a sort of universal principle that always has existed, and is what brings life, as in a life everlasting, that became a light to mankind, to bring to them that life, and it dwelt among us, apparently in the person of Jesus. It could not possibly say that the word became flesh itself since the word used in the Greek is never used to describe such a process, of one thing turning into another thing. Generally it means that something came about, like a person can come to a particular city.
edit on 18-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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The OT is using the term, "House of Israel" addressing the people in Judea, and you have to assume it meant who we think of today as Jews, though at that time, "the Jews" meant those who were the returnees from the Babylonian captivity. I have to think that it meant the people who followed the same religion as the Jews, and accepted the temple in Jerusalem as the sole authorized place of sacrifice to The Lord.
On that video, Jim Staley - Identity Crisis -This message will change your world!, that you mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, he says Josephus said in his time there were people in the area who knew their tribal affiliation, that included all twelve tribes.


1 Kings 11:11 "Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant."

1 Kings 11:31 "And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:"

1 Kings 11:35 "But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes."

1 Kings 11:13 "Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen"

Judah and Benjamin were in the Southern Kingdom. The one tribe of Judah would bring forth the Messiah, so this tribe was preserved according to the covenant with David. Thus Benjamin and Judah formed the "House of Judah." This is why we have "Jews" today. From Judah. The northern tribes were called the "House of Israel." Benjamin remained loyal to the Southern Kingdom. The Northern Kingdom rebelled and sinned against the LORD. Rehoboam, Solomon's son, was over Judah and Benjamin.


I doubt that anyone who studies the Bible thinks that. The Lord seems to be a normal person in places, such as when He was on His way to Sodom, and stopped for lunch with Abraham.


YHWH of the Old Testament is one and the same as the one of the New Testament. No difference there. Have you considered that since God cannot break His own Law about divorce and yet said that He would again remarry the House of Israel into covenant again, this makes absolutely no sense? He cannot break it. So what way could they be brought back? If the husband dies, then the woman is released from the Law of her husband. Thus the Messiah's death satisfied this requirement, and the Law says nothing about resurrection being against it. Jesus and the Father are one, and before Abraham was "I AM." Without Him was not anything made that was made.


The "four letters" being an alternative Baal type storm god that ended up in the Old Testament probably to distinguish the Israelite's baal from the baals of the other nations.


YHWH can be rendered to mean "Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail" or "Behold the nailed hand." according to meanings of the letters in the name. Yahushua is the Messiah's name. You can take that even more to "Behold the Nailed Hand is Salvation." How can you say that is a storm gods name? Baal is similar to Lord or Master but is not the same as the Holy One in Israel.



There is no "order of Melchizedek". Do you think there is a priestly order of Melchizedek?


Psalm 110:4 "The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." Meaning Jesus had no beginning of days, and was not a Levite and did not have to be Levite. He is of a higher authority than Levitical Priests could ever be. In the same way Melchizedek was a king priest so is He. He is a priest forever but not by Aaron or Levites. He did not have to be Levitical to be priest. The name Melchizedek can mean King of Righteousness. Righteous King. It is a comparison, yet this is the type of priest He is. He is from Judah, and Moses said nothing about Judah concerning priesthood.


There aren't any "Second Coming prophecies". Maybe there are some that you think are, but you are mistaken, in my opinion. There is a Day of the Lord, but it is not a second coming, it is a day of judgment.


What Bible are you reading? The Day of the LORD is the Second Coming of Christ. Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall HE APPEAR A SECOND TIME without sin unto salvation.

Acts 1:11 "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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If you are trying to say they are the same person, then it does not say that, and on the contrary describes two people, at least in the NT.


The Bible answers this many times. There are not two Gods. Only one. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" God is one God. The Word is God. The Word of God is Jesus Christ (Yahushua Ha Mashiach). The Holy Spirit. They are all ONE. Not two, not three. ONE! He is outside of our space time, so it's hard for us to understand being of finite mind. If Nehemiah says that the LORD alone created the heavens and the earth, and the through the Word he created them and He and the Word are one. That speaks for itself.


I don't know about your messiah, but my Messiah is king over all the earth right now.


Yes He is the King of Kings. Yet, Satan and the fallen angels who rule with him are the rulers of this world right now. God is sovereign but Satan is still the "god" of this world. It's all under him for now until the time of restoration.

Matthew 4:8 "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Matthew 4:9 "And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."





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