Avoid The Conspiracy Theory Trap Please!, page 1

Avoid The Conspiracy Theory Trap Please!, page

Pages:
ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times

Topic started on 9-9-2012 @ 11:47 AM by freedomwv

My first rant.

I fully support anyone who uses critical thinking and questions news and information. Analysis based on sound research and proper cultural, social and political reference is a good thing for any society. Yet, there are a massive amount of people out there who simply do not know what they are talking about. They rant and rave without being able to back up even a fraction of what they say. They have an agenda which is far removed from simple expression of ideas and spreading of information. I am tired of it. Daily I run across many people who based what they write and say on no sound facts or reference. What is even more frustrating is that these same people usually have something to sale. I cannot buy something from someone who offered no sound reference to what they are saying. There are really well researched people who can, and do, offer plenty of reference to just about any claim they make. If someone knows what they are talking about it is very clear in the way they write, talk or even provide reference when asked. Yet, there is also a massive amount of people who simply don`t know what they are talking about and are simply offering blind speculation and trying to sell something. Speculation is okay just do not offer it as fact or something people should believe as solid information.

YouTube Link

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 11:55 AM by denver22

reply to post by freedomwv

It seems there are alot of charlatans masquerading as posters on this site trying to advertise
for thier agenda whether it be you tube hits or the latest conspiracy claims and they divert you
or try to go on another site.

It is rife in todays society and im sick to death of it being used on here.

I can spot them a mile off and try to thwart there plans of advertising on this site so many times.
I can tell you a few con artists right now but i will be speaking to the mods soon about it.

So dark the con of man a quote from a film we all know springs to mind.

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 12:10 PM by freedomwv

reply to post by denver22

One of my biggest concerns, in the open expression of ideas and information which is the internet, is that those who spin out things based on no reference at all end up hurting the drive for truth and the desire to progress human society forward. It is not easy to inform our fellow humans and the situation is not helped by people who spout out things based on nothing more than `They say it is true.` I think it would help for more of a push for a little more scientific approach to information gathering and sharing.

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 12:38 PM by EvilSadamClone

So why does it absolutely have to be the scientific approach?

And absolutely only scientific approach for it to be true?

That's as bad as the people who value logic who say that truth can come only from logic and logic is absolutely the only thing that must be used to make anything true.

From what I understand, science is not supposed to be about truth, only finding out how the world works.

if science is about truth, and if science is the only thing that can make something true, then I am afraid it is indeed no different than a religion.

edit on 9-9-2012 by EvilSadamClone because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 01:05 PM by freedomwv

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

There is a method which is used to discover the truth. It is called the scientific method. We use it because it provides us with a way to break things down into a logical way of understanding what the truth is and how to go about either changing or modifying it if needed.

Speculation does have value. It allows us to explore ideas and discover new paths of finding the truth of any situation. Yet, when we start to state speculation as fact then we lose all ability to discover the truth which is hidden from us.

I have heard some really far-flung speculation presented as fact before and it is very frustrating because it means I have to waste my time explaining it is speculation and not proven fact. Also, logic can change depending on the situation and the material conditions of any given situation.

It is very important to gather information which is solid and can at least be referenced to an actual source(i.e. someone actually said it or there is written or video doc of it) in order to learn what the truth is.

edit on 9-9-2012 by freedomwv because: spelling

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 01:15 PM by EvilSadamClone

reply to post by freedomwv

Sorry, but the scientific method can not determine truth, only facts, and how things work.

Truth is something that philosophy and religion explores.

Science is not about truth. It is not about belief. It is about facts in regards to how the world works.

And I'll repeat myself, is science is the only way to truth and belief, than it is simply another form of religion, for that is what religion claims. It simply has a different methodology to determine it.

A tennis shoe with Velcro and a tennis shoe with laces are still just another tennis shoe. Some people want to say that the tennis shoe with laces can not be another tennis shoe, but I just can't buy it.

And if science is the only way to truth and belief, then I will reject it, just like I reject logic. I reject any claims of people who say they have the one true way and everyone must follow them blindly.

Because claiming it is the only way to determine truth is nothing more than sheer arrogance.

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 01:25 PM by adrift

Originally posted by freedomwv
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

There is a method which is used to discover the truth. It is called the scientific method.

Truth to a scientist is found through the scientific method, but...
Truth to a religious person is found through fasting, prayer, mediation.
Truth to a athlete is found through training, experience and perseverance.
etc..

The truth always depends on the person's beliefs while receiving it, and we sometimes expect everyone to miss the plot when they come to their revelation using a method of their own.

For instance a completely loving, unselfish person who makes the world a better place did not find that lifestyle through a formula. Even undiscovered scientific discoveries 100 years from now currently have no springboard, and therefore might require the need to re-invent the scientific method.

To take it further, logic depends on a mind which holds it. We can see that through asking a child to explain something logically, and then asking the same to a Phd student. They both use logic, but maybe the child is right sometimes, and the student the others? Just my thoughts

Great thread though, I'm loading up the video to watch it now.

edit on 9-9-2012 by adrift because: I can't spell

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 01:44 PM by UKMinarchist

Yup, well thanks for that, I think.

I think your Subject line was primarily designed to attract attention here on ATS,

I completely agree that society suffers from the intentional/unintentional manipulation of the meaning of words, Democracy & Racism are cases in point & seems to be in Vogue in the west at the moment. As a student of language this must be glaringly obvious.

I believe another basis of your argument was, don't trust people who close by asking you to give them money.

I'm fairly certain that many conspiracy theorists are not simply looking for money (psychosocially, differential value advantage). Many get a kind of feedback when people agree with them or praise them for raising awareness of what they individually believe is true, getting funds to expand this is a debatable necessary evil, given the current paradigm.

The Ego is an extremely powerful & complex subliminal component of who we are. Many (like yourself maybe) simply seem to crave attention.

Ask yourself honestly, what was the point of this thread, why did you make it ? what warm fuzzy feeling were you hoping for?

Maybe you could give us an interpretation of the words used to make up your subject line, to me it simply sounds like do not theorize about the workings and objectives of secretive groups.

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 02:58 PM by rebellender

Originally posted by denver22
reply to post by freedomwv

It seems there are alot of charlatans masquerading as posters on this site trying to advertise
for thier agenda whether it be you tube hits or the latest conspiracy claims and they divert you
or try to go on another site.

It is rife in todays society and im sick to death of it being used on here.

I can spot them a mile off and try to thwart there plans of advertising on this site so many times.
I can tell you a few con artists right now but i will be speaking to the mods soon about it.

So dark the con of man a quote from a film we all know springs to mind.

what if the site its self is the charlatan ........Fat Pills anyone? spam yummmmmm!

Its all entertainment built around Ed Bernays advertising. Media sells. This site not excluded, UN anybody?

edit on 9-9-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)

and with this implication I too must go do Gods work

edit on 9-9-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 09:44 PM by freedomwv

reply to post by UKMinarchist

1) I did not start this thread looking for attention.
2) I did not start this thread hoping for a `warm fuzzy feeling`
3) I wanted to express something, so I made a video. I decided to use the video I made in a rant I wanted to start on ATS.

Okay...so now that I got those basic points out of the way.

I think that speculation is a very good thing. There are some very smart people across the net who are able to use critical thinking and come up with some very intelligent ideas as to the truth of any situation. Some of those ideas can even stand the test of the scientific method of proving or disproving a theory. I am not against speculation or brainstorming at all.

What I have a problem with is people who spout insane things knowing full well they are not making logic nor adding to the stream of human thought or understanding. Often, but not always, these people are either running off of pure emotions or have an agenda other than adding to the process of understanding the situation or issue being discussed.

I feel it is a very good thing that people question what is happening around them. The magic of being human is the power to wonder, be amazed and question everything around us. We should think about what is happening and allow our minds to freely produce ideas and theory as to what is going on daily.

Yet, when we really get down to the nuts and bolts of things I find that there are a lot of folks who are really not seeking to add to our shared human understanding nor work out solutions to the problems society faces. Sometimes, when I break down what folks are saying I find that it is not based on material conditions at all. They have crossed the line into fantasy; which is not a bad thing but they should be able to realize it and not attempt to present their ideas as facts or viable solutions.

Everyone`s opinion and ideas are worth expressing and discussing. Yet, there comes a point in which is it very important to weed out which ideas can be proven though the scientific method, and are viable, and which ones are not.

reply posted on 18-9-2012 @ 09:09 AM by intelligenthoodlum33

reply to post by freedomwv

I feel ya, brother. Keep up the good fight. There are people out there, as well as here, whose only function is to confuse and distract. Others are simply trying to make a buck. In the end, we all have the responsibility to seek only the truth. S and F. Cool pompadour, by the way.

reply posted on 18-9-2012 @ 03:53 PM by freedomwv

reply to post by intelligenthoodlum33

You know, coming from you it means a lot to read your words. You are a man of logic and reason who I have a lot of respect for.

Pages: ^^TOP^^