Unanswered religious questions

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I'm sorry but I don't want to bring my mind down to your level.

It is natural for a child to believe what adults tell them, the tooth fairy, god, the Easter bunny and santa Claus are all fictional characters that we generally realise don't exist as we grow more mature but for some reason the myth of a god persists with some people even though it is no more real than the others. I have simply grown up.

I am not angry at the bible no more than any other fictional book. I am angry how religious zealots use the bible and Koran to try force their incorrect beliefs on others. If somebody has a faith in something then why must they persuade others to feel the same. Is it strength in numbers because let me tell you that if everybody believed in god it still wouldn't make it true.

You may live in an imaginary world but I live in the real world and I know it would be a better place without religion. It would certainly cut wars down by at least 90%.

Faith can be shattered. I have truth.

I understand your pov, I was once there.... Many years ago, but like children, I've grown up and have sought out the God I knew existed. I found myself as well. I also found you, and everyone else on experience.

When you want to be open to what I can share, u2u me.

I'm always willing to share good news.

Your mind, is definitley not beneath mine nor is mine above. I just so happen to have different information that you, and even after your child like mannerism I'm still willing to show you I'm the BIGGER person and willing to share.

Don't feel good does it.

reply to post by MamaJ


You have truth without evidence. How novel.

I am not interested in what you have to say. You're like all religious zealots. You have blind faith but you daren't open your eyes and question it as you know it will mean you have wasted your life.

To be an atheist you have to ask yourself can you live your life to the full and not be afraid to die and I can honestly say I'm not afraid. Death wasn't a problem before I was born and it won't be when I die. Its just a shame that when religious people die they aren't able to realise they have wasted their lives because well they'll be dead.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

You're like all religious zealots.

Really?

I am not interested in what you have to say.

How do you know this if you won't even listen to what she has to say?

In your own words,....

You have truth without evidence. How novel.

Oh look here's more truth without evidence (opinion)

Its just a shame that when religious people die they aren't able to realise they have wasted their lives because well they'll be dead.

I don't know MamaJ's perspectives on things and haven't even read your conversation to see the points you two are trying to make, but I find your reasoning behind dismissing what she has to say to be quite flimsy and ironic. For someone who accuses others of living with their eyes closed it sure is funny how blissfully unaware of your own contradictions you are.

reply to post by twistedlogic


As I have said many times it is quite easy to dismiss god as there has never been any evidence of existence but masses to the contrary therefore I quite confidently can say there is no god and the odds are very good that this is the truth.

I also keep saying if you disagree prove me wrong but nobody can. All I get back is nonsense and mumbo jumbo.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

I am a man of science and it is not religious text that makes me believe there is something behind this, but observation and analysis.

I'm not even going to try to provide any definitive evidence, because there is none. But would like to voice a non religion based belief in a creator. I used to question if there was a creator or not, but after delving into the realm of physics and chemistry ( like going to school for it, not just reading about it, still in school for some of it so don't quiz me too hard if theres any physics pro trolls out there ^_^ ) I have come to the conclusion that there must be something behind what we call our reality.

I see too much beauty and intricacy in the way things interact for this to have happened out of chance. I'm not talking about the chance of life in all the countless galaxies and solar systems ( yes i do believe there to be vast amounts of life elsewhere in our universe, not our creator though, i believe it/him/her/whatever to exist outside our realm of existence, able to manipulate our dimensions of reality; existing in different dimensions than what we can observe ) but the chance for the laws of physics and the way chemicals react with each other to have played out the way it did. There was only one shot at that, only one set of rules that all matter must act by, and it worked in its one chance, and provides us all the majesty and wonder we observe in our reality today. Religion? Hell no! ( tehehe, hell....no religion...irony... get it... sorry -_- ) Chance? Not a chance.... Something that exist outside of what we can observe setting this in motion? Very plausible.

Just my two cents anyways. Not trying to prove I'm right or anything, just providing an alternative perspective, for it is through different perspectives that we can find common truth.

Here's where I'm coming from, that's me ^^^

Likewise, if you can prove me wrong feel free to. Also not trying to prove you wrong, I dig people having different opinions. I just found your hypocrisy amusing and have a problem with people voicing their opinions as facts. Also if you could point me in the direction of some of this evidence that there is apparently masses of I would greatly appreciate it, I am eager to read it. Or are you just talking out of your ass? Also why do you feel living your life to the fullest and not being afraid of death is exclusive to being an atheist? I have many atheist friends who think the exact opposite, that they must live life to the fullest BECAUSE they are afraid of death, believing that it is the end of their existence.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

You have truth without evidence. How novel.

I am not interested in what you have to say. You're like all religious zealots. You have blind faith but you daren't open your eyes and question it as you know it will mean you have wasted your life.

To be an atheist you have to ask yourself can you live your life to the full and not be afraid to die and I can honestly say I'm not afraid. Death wasn't a problem before I was born and it won't be when I die. Its just a shame that when religious people die they aren't able to realise they have wasted their lives because well they'll be dead.

edit on 14-9-2012 by GafferUK1981 because: (no reason given)

Ya know what, I'm not interested either.

I take back all kindness to you!!!

I am glad you are not afraid to die. Lol never said anything about you dying.

Religious people and dying? Ooooooook lol

SOME OF US AIN'T RELIGIOUS BUT WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS HAVING A HUMAN EXPERIENCE...... THAT MAKES US WITHOUT THE DOGMA AND POLITICS... NOW DOESNT IT.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by twistedlogic

 

As I have said many times it is quite easy to dismiss god as there has never been any evidence of existence but masses to the contrary therefore I quite confidently can say there is no god and the odds are very good that this is the truth.

I also keep saying if you disagree prove me wrong but nobody can. All I get back is nonsense and mumbo jumbo.

You could prove it to yourself.

No one needs or should have to prove something that IS OBSERVABLE.

Again, check out Manly P. Hall and listen to his philosophical lectures, after all where did science come from? It came from the ancient philosophers!

reply to post by MamaJ


What exactly is observable?

We know evolution is how we came to be not creationism. Evolution is observable, there is nothing in this world you can look at and say 'it is only possible that god did that'.

You remind me of my uncle, he also tries to prove there is a god using philosophy, philosophy is all about thinking, you can dream up whatever you like but it doesn't make it true.

Surely if god is so powerful and capable of creating the universe let alone our planet there would be evidence but there is absolutely nothing.

Science has proved the Bible to be wrong, throw it in the bin it's an old pointless book. It's no good for mankind, it causes more problems than the world can cope with.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

What exactly is observable?

We know evolution is how we came to be not creationism. Evolution is observable, there is nothing in this world you can look at and say 'it is only possible that god did that'.

You remind me of my uncle, he also tries to prove there is a god using philosophy, philosophy is all about thinking, you can dream up whatever you like but it doesn't make it true.

Surely if god is so powerful and capable of creating the universe let alone our planet there would be evidence but there is absolutely nothing.

Science has proved the Bible to be wrong, throw it in the bin it's an old pointless book. It's no good for mankind, it causes more problems than the world can cope with.

Everything you see!!!!

God to me........ In my view....... Is the Eternal Thinker whereas we observe the manifestation of the Eternal Thinker ( God) in his creation as an observable force expressing, he ce we have an Expressionable Universe, or all that is we can see and all that we cannot see. There is a seen and unseen. There is a cause and effect.

Whether an object is alive or not, it emits light/ electromagnetic radiation. It's expressive, regardless.

All we can see then could be termed Nous. We observe the good order of nature and know the nature is within all of creation. We also understand nature evolves and so yes, evolution has been implemented but I can assure you we are not from apes. Before man was completely dense in matter and before the split of the " atom/ Adam" , man did have sexual pleasures with animals, hence the desires of the material overcame their spirit to the homo sapien we see today who just so happens to be entangled in matter. We can then take note, man in all his glory has fallen once again as he continues to go AWAY from the order of nature and matter is his God.

The abuse of the power given to man is like a little child who has been given a gun with it cocked and loaded.

Notice our history, each and every time a civilization rises he abuses his god given abilities and or knowledge.

We have death and we have knowledge, so the story goes, and this story is backed up with evidence.

What's knowledge done for us again? Brought our own demise as we were not ready and man is still not ready.

The story continues......

Man with his power of knowledge will again have to have rebirth time and time again, until he gets it! The light bulb will ding and his heart will sing and rejoice in the fact his spirit and flesh have overcome the power of ignorance!

Once the process of rebirth ends the earth and it's inhabitants will transform into grown and evolved spirit/ flesh with their mind complete. The soul will then have life without the matter and or material strangling his existence.


Matter and light interacting on many levels.

It is possible there was a plan before the material universe manifested into what we see today.

Philosophy is a beautiful thing my friend! It has been the creator of mathematics, SCIENCE, and everything else. In order to create one has to think and dream, doesn't he?

The difference in the philosophies is one has knowledge and one doesn't.

If you took all the knowledge in from everywhere all the time, you may know more than the average man I would say. Ignorance can be bliss...... Once you know things, you cannot unlearn them.

In the same tone though knowledge once known can make a beautiful melody sing in the heart and soul.

Balance of power and doing good for the fellow man is what's needed. Today we see the abuse of power, don't we?

The Bible is not something I have allowed the church to teach me.

I consider my being to hold no religion, but all of them. All who have come before me had truth. They are all right, in their own right and should be respected!

Science is a philosophy for me. I have a scientific mind believe it or not and love all aspects of it even though it, itself, denies some that arose before it ever came into existence.

In regards to being an atheist, I applaud anyone who can be as bold as the atheist to actually denounce a God before he sees God. I have always had a sense of God within, so for me, I cannot be without a creator. The creation ( me ) observes I HAD to be created.

The Universe is in all it's mysteries, solvable, and in my mind I've solved many mysteries and believe to know what dark energy and dark matter is.

As above, so below. This speaks for itself and really does not require an explanation.

The philosophers of our times past came with a purpose and knew so much more than we do today.

Science, if not divided and so political like the religions...... Would be so more advance if they included theories from the metaphysical community and philosophers of times past and today. This can also be said for all religions.

The Bible has a lot of power in its own right for it was inspired by the works of the many bodies/ same soul of Jesus

reply to post by GafferUK1981


The Christ.

Take amilius, adam, hermes, Enoch, Melchezedek, Joshua, Joseph, and others including Jesus and you find his complete story of evolving. The difference in he and us is he remembered his purpose each and every time he came as he was not bounded in matter like us. His plan was from the beginning and we were there. The stars in creation story singing is YOU AND I..... All souls rejoicing that we will have an opportunity on earth as it is filled with so many opportunities and possibilities. This too is evident and observable and once tested, you find and see TRUTH!

Each of his bodies on earth came with a purpose and it's up to the seeker to read and contemplate each incarnation and what he brought to the table.

Once this is done and complete, the seeker sees the light in the bible for what it is as no teacher or minister can ever come close to telling you all the secrets. Remember..... It's politcal and we see what politics does in time as it too evolves.

Evolution and creation are both right.

Science and religion are both right.

Combine all knowledge and the truth reveals itself.

reply to post by MamaJ


Well I have read some rubbish in my time but without doubt the words you have written in your post constitute the biggest load of rubbish I have ever had the misfortune to read.

Science is correct, theories are tested, tests are repeated again and again until theories become knowledge.

Religion is incorrect, it is basically the ideas of primitive man that science has now proved to be bulls**t.

Evolution is a part of science and is observable, for instance in a chicken embryo we can see remnants of the evolution of the chicken.

Creation is an idea that science has dismissed, it is complete garbage and laughable.

Now I'm sorry, you genuinely do seem to sincerely believe in what you are saying but you must realise that creation and evolution are incompatible. We know that we evolved from a common ancestor to other apes, we know there was never an 'Adam', god did not just plonk man onto the planet. Creation is a lie.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Well I have read some rubbish in my time but without doubt the words you have written in your post constitute the biggest load of rubbish I have ever had the misfortune to read.

Science is correct, theories are tested, tests are repeated again and again until theories become knowledge.

Religion is incorrect, it is basically the ideas of primitive man that science has now proved to be bulls**t.

Evolution is a part of science and is observable, for instance in a chicken embryo we can see remnants of the evolution of the chicken.

Creation is an idea that science has dismissed, it is complete garbage and laughable.

Now I'm sorry, you genuinely do seem to sincerely believe in what you are saying but you must realise that creation and evolution are incompatible. We know that we evolved from a common ancestor to other apes, we know there was never an 'Adam', god did not just plonk man onto the planet. Creation is a lie.

Ok, I will speak no more to you as your words are not rubbish and mine are, however I will not bow to you.

Have fun on your journey of the god given life you possess.

reply to post by MamaJ


Okay I guess that concludes that branch of conversation.

Thank you I will carry on with my godless life and make the most of it, after all this is the only life I will ever have.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Okay I guess that concludes that branch of conversation.

Thank you I will carry on with my godless life and make the most of it, after all this is the only life I will ever have.

If that is what you believe then so be it.

I happen to think there are many lives lead here on earth called reincarnation, but hey, suit yourself.

reply to post by MamaJ


I just prefer to keep it simple.

Rather than taking an enormous leap of faith and believing in something ludicrous when there is no supporting evidence I'd much rather live my live using knowledge instead of false hope.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

I just prefer to keep it simple.

Rather than taking an enormous leap of faith and believing in something ludicrous when there is no supporting evidence I'd much rather live my live using knowledge instead of false hope.

Evidence of history maybe? Oh we have evidence. www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by MamaJ


Congratulations you have evidence that people have believed in a god throughout history, sadly this still does not prove the existence of a god it simply proves some people have always been wrong.

Lets look at the origins of the Abrahamic god which you follow, he was dreamed up by the Jews, a nomadic people who were persecuted and didn't have a land to call their own. To cope with this rejection they came to the conclusion that they were special "the chosen people", they invented a religion to try reinforce this idea and thousands of years later the religion and it's derivatives christianity and islam still exist.

I look at religion as a disease or virus, it started out with a small number of people and over the years has grown and grown into the behemoth we see today. The thing is the people who created this god were wrong, they had no evidence just a lack of intelligence, false belief and pure desire. So if the people who started religion were wrong, no matter how big that religion grows to be every follower is still wrong just like it's creators. The size of the group does not constitute evidence, it is merely mass delusion. "The God Delusion".

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Congratulations you have evidence that people have believed in a god throughout history, sadly this still does not prove the existence of a god it simply proves some people have always been wrong.

Lets look at the origins of the Abrahamic god which you follow, he was dreamed up by the Jews, a nomadic people who were persecuted and didn't have a land to call their own. To cope with this rejection they came to the conclusion that they were special "the chosen people", they invented a religion to try reinforce this idea and thousands of years later the religion and it's derivatives christianity and islam still exist.

I look at religion as a disease or virus, it started out with a small number of people and over the years has grown and grown into the behemoth we see today. The thing is the people who created this god were wrong, they had no evidence just a lack of intelligence, false belief and pure desire. So if the people who started religion were wrong, no matter how big that religion grows to be every follower is still wrong just like it's creators. The size of the group does not constitute evidence, it is merely mass delusion. "The God Delusion".

I'm not into religion and not sure how many times I have to tell you. Religion is a divider and I do not represent dividing people.

The problem here is you have no idea who you are or what your purpose is. When you figure this out you will be able to help mankind and not hinder him.

If you do not see your self in nature, there is a problem.

I'm done going and back forth with you. The link above is where you can find me if you want to get serious and stop this child's play.

reply to post by MamaJ

"Congratulations you have evidence that people have believed in a god throughout history, sadly this still does not prove the existence of a god it simply proves some people have always been wrong. "

He hit it right on the head there MamaJ, your evidence is pretty weak. There is really no point in arguing EITHER side of this debate, as there is hard evidence for neither.

reply to post by MamaJ


Ok I apologise, you are not a Christian so the bible is irrelevant to you but you do believe in a god that there is zero evidence exists. I understand that like many others you try to philosophies that there is a god, you can philosophies anything but philosophy can never provide evidence.

I am not arrogant enough to believe that homosapiens are special and need a purpose to exist. We like all other animals on this planet are the product of evolution. I believe this brings me closer to nature than you believe as I believe we are a part of nature through evolution.

I strongly believe that there is intelligent life on other planets and I wonder if they have the arrogance of homosapiens to think that they are special or like me do they believe they are just an insignificant being in an unimaginably vast universe.

It may seem bleek to you but to me it is realistic and I can happily live with that.