Unanswered religious questions

reply to post by jiggerj

2. Light is made up of photons. If god created light, where did he get the photons? If you want to say that he brought together the materials to make suns (that produce light), where did he get the materials to make the suns? Again, magic?

You are probably thinking of Genesis 1, where it is describing six (or seven) days of creation, which has to be about the earth in particular, and not the creation of the universe, so "Let there be light" is about light coming to a local previously void place. "Light" is symbolic of what is visible, and it is like this sort of philosophy that 'if there is no one there, is anything really there, or is it only real when it is being observed?'
The gods show up in our quadrant and do some geo-engineering to make a habitat, then everything is made visible to those doing this thing, 'light is shone on it' as the scene is thoroughly scrutinized.

reply to post by jiggerj

3. If a god exists, doesn't that mean that we have no personal value whatsoever? If you take pieces of wood and make them into checkers on a checkerboard, can they move themselves or are they wholly at the mercy of your whims? You can throw them out, burn them, cast them into a drawer and never touch them again. So, if god created you, and if you are wholly at the mercy of his whims, what personal value can you have? Doesn't the existence of a creator with a grand design (a purpose of his own) render you purposeless?

"God" is a word to describe something really great and who knows exactly what all that involves, and how many persons are included under that term?
God did not create people to serve some strange, unknown purpose of God.
People and God came into existence inside the universe at different stages in its development according to their personal ability to survive in that particular state of order, the gods having temporal priority in that they were not so susceptible to conditions since they were spirit beings with invulnerability to most physical things.
All persons have value, whether gods or men because we all have a sort of equality since we all contributed in some way with the beginning stages of what grew into creation.

Originally posted by jiggerj

My answers:

1. There's no such thing as magic. Therefore, everything was created by natural laws.
2. God didn't create light.
3. If a god exists, then we don't exist. We would be merely a figment of his imagination.
4. 'In the beginning was the word...',

reply to post by jiggerj

4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What does that mean? What is the word?

Logos, that is how it was originally written. That's a Greek word with a lot of philosophical baggage attached to it before the Gospel of John was ever written.
I would say it was the plan, and then became the thing that got the plan into action, the collective consciousness of every sentient being who would ever inhabit the universe. That is basically God, in a wider sense of the word, though it differentiated and then there were the two main species, but united with a commonality of a central spiritual essence.
People have forgotten that and experience a separation from God, and the loss of the knowledge of the kinship between all persons.
So John is describing how a person fully integral with the totally spiritual realm can meet those of us who have chosen the life of the material world, and to remind us in a serious way how we all are still of the spiritual nature in part at least, but must reconnect through that to the stronger and purer spirit that God has and is willing to share.

I haven't read through this thread with more than a cursory glance, but the questions you pose are not REALLY unanswered.

"Magic" is a bit of a confusing term to use in this context, though. The way I understand it, God is outside the bounds of this universe (i.e. space and time), and probably outside the bounds of all universes/the multiverse. Otherwise, he wouldn't be God. So when people ask questions about God and creation involving words like "before...", "bigger than...", "stronger than...", they don't usually make any sense in that context.

I'd go further to say that God is the creator, so the universe (and all its scientific laws and rules) were created by God. Do you consider the creation of such "magical"?
Most scriptures don't deal with the specifics (and they couldn't, without being hugely metaphorical, considering the time they came out), but I am more than willing to generally accept the scientific explanations of things.
Where do you believe photons came from? Where did matter come from?

Might seem a simplistic and "cheaty" solution, but most religious groups are more than happy to stick "And God did that" to the beginning of as far as scientific understanding has gone up to that point. Currently I'd say that photons and energy were created when matter and antimatter were ripped and created out of nothing.

As for the "Word", it is generally understood by Christians to mean "Jesus", although it has also been interpreted to mean the Bible, or more abstractly, the laws of the universe.

And as for personal value and worth, that is where free will usually comes in. We are what we make of ourselves.

Originally posted by borntowatch


So here is the crux
You believe in magic

No, I don't believe in magic.

Natural laws must form from something. Laws just dont happen. Logic must dictate that. Common sense obviously. Did the natural laws come from magic. How does that work

If you blow up a balloon, where did the pressure inside the balloon come from? Not magic. If you filled the balloon with something lighter than air, why will the balloon float up and away? Not magic.

Natural laws are automatically allotted to any and every environment.

Light created itself, that sounds silly doesnt it. Where did light come from then? Some may call Gods creation magic. Atheists call the big bang science though it must have been magic in reality. They cant explain any of it.

Right! Light cannot create itself. Light is merely a reaction (a peripheral outcome) to fire burning, or wires and filaments connecting to a battery.

reply to post by borntowatch

God exists and created us in His image.

Here we go.

Exactly and precisely what do YOU think this means: God created us in His image.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

3. If God exists than we exist and we are the creation. Was anything created with the same purpose as man? We are the pinnacle of his creation, made to know peace and love so that we might pursue it. Isn't it time we start to act like the pinnacle of God's creation?

We are not the pinnacle of anything. No creature on this planet is in competition with us. Lions do what lions are supposed to, birds do what birds are supposed to, and humans do what humans are supposed to - by their nature.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by sacgamer25

3. If God exists than we exist and we are the creation. Was anything created with the same purpose as man? We are the pinnacle of his creation, made to know peace and love so that we might pursue it. Isn't it time we start to act like the pinnacle of God's creation?

We are not the pinnacle of anything. No creature on this planet is in competition with us. Lions do what lions are supposed to, birds do what birds are supposed to, and humans do what humans are supposed to - by their nature.

Humans do what they are supposed to do? Really we do? I have never met one person that always does what he/she knows they should do at all times. We do what we desire to do often times ignoring our nature to do what is right.

And you failed to address where these Natural Laws come from. Or how life created itself, which is outside of these Natural Laws.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by sacgamer25

3. If God exists than we exist and we are the creation. Was anything created with the same purpose as man? We are the pinnacle of his creation, made to know peace and love so that we might pursue it. Isn't it time we start to act like the pinnacle of God's creation?

We are not the pinnacle of anything. No creature on this planet is in competition with us. Lions do what lions are supposed to, birds do what birds are supposed to, and humans do what humans are supposed to - by their nature.

Humans do what they are supposed to do? Really we do? I have never met one person that always does what he/she knows they should do at all times. We do what we desire to do often times ignoring our nature to do what is right.

I didn't say that humans do what they should do, but what humans are supposed to do. If an alien wrote a book on the animals of this planet you might find this description on mankind: The human animal is inconsistent, ever changing in opinions, beliefs, likes, dislikes, moods...

We wouldn't even be defined as imperfect - we are what we are.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.

Mornin Jigger,

I'l let the religious deal with the questions that you pose and just address this one item, quoted above.

The philosophy of the "Word" is not a Christian concept but a Gnostic one. It was first proposed and then coined by Pythagoras in his literary work called "Hieros Logos," or, Holy word.

Must people know that Pythagoras pioneered the study of sound, vibrations, frequencies and their effects on matter, but few know that John's writing in the Bible are directly taken from the Pythagorian Mystery Schools, founded almost 500 years before the appearance of Jesus.

As to sound traveling through empty space...............

I don't know if empty space actually exists, but that is neither here nor there. Ages ago, when I was in college, I had to take some science to fulfill my credit requirements so I took a couple of Astronomy classes. One of the most mind blowing factoids that I came away with was how sound waves create stars and solar systems.

I'll try to explain it in the feeble way that I understand the complicated science to structure. Simply put, if you have a star over here that goes into super nova, it's spews out matter and sound, which travels faster than the matter, out in a radius. Then, over here, you have another star that goes into super nova and spews it's matter and sound waves out in a radius. When the fronts of the 2 separate sound wave tsumamis meet. The sound waves push against the matter, causing a vibrating cohesion of said matter, that results in nebula star nurseries.

God or no God, sound has everything to do with our existence.

You know Genesis 1 was written before Pythagoras was an itch in his daddys daddys pants

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4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This phrase isn't from Genesis. It's from John chapter 1.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I'll predict that some of you might want to say that the word was a sound, but sound doesn't travel through empty space, so it couldn't have created the universe.

Mornin Jigger,

I'l let the religious deal with the questions that you pose and just address this one item, quoted above.

The philosophy of the "Word" is not a Christian concept but a Gnostic one. It was first proposed and then coined by Pythagoras in his literary work called "Hieros Logos," or, Holy word.

Must people know that Pythagoras pioneered the study of sound, vibrations, frequencies and their effects on matter, but few know that John's writing in the Bible are directly taken from the Pythagorian Mystery Schools, founded almost 500 years before the appearance of Jesus.

As to sound traveling through empty space...............

I don't know if empty space actually exists, but that is neither here nor there. Ages ago, when I was in college, I had to take some science to fulfill my credit requirements so I took a couple of Astronomy classes. One of the most mind blowing factoids that I came away with was how sound waves create stars and solar systems.

I'll try to explain it in the feeble way that I understand the complicated science to structure. Simply put, if you have a star over here that goes into super nova, it's spews out matter and sound, which travels faster than the matter, out in a radius. Then, over here, you have another star that goes into super nova and spews it's matter and sound waves out in a radius. When the fronts of the 2 separate sound wave tsumamis meet. The sound waves push against the matter, causing a vibrating cohesion of said matter, that results in nebula star nurseries.

God or no God, sound has everything to do with our existence.

You know Genesis 1 was written before Pythagoras was an itch in his daddys daddys pants

-------------------------------------------------
4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This phrase isn't from Genesis. It's from John chapter 1.

Oops, I am SOOO going to hell!

Christians offer the answer is in God.
Atheists offer no answer, nothing at all. They have a question that never changes and answers based on no substance, that always change.
You desire an answer to creation evolution and claim science, yet outside of magic science has no answers. That doesnt matter you still accept it anyway.
I see nothing.
Judaism teaches God created everything. Thousands of years latter and it hasnt been proven wrong. One constant, Gods creation, proven through Christ walking on earth.
Proven by the writings of His friends and followers and the hundreds of millions who accept and believe.

Yet you claim science with nothing but magic as its foundation.

Exactly and precisely what do YOU think this means: God created us in His image.

reply to post by jiggerj


Again, I refer you to the link.

MarsHill

Natural laws are automatically allotted to any and every environment.

reply to post by jiggerj


And who is it that "automatically allots them to any and every environment?"
Who decides what laws govern which environments?
Who put the laws in motion?
Who keeps them constant?
What happens if any of the "rules" of those natural laws alters even slightly?
Who is holding those laws in delicate balance?

Your own arguments point to an orderly alignment from an intelligent designer - not coincidence from chaotic happenstance. Thus inferring "creation" not "chance" - thus inferring a "creator."

The Creation of the World

GENESIS 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.3 And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Originally posted by 1king2rulethemall

Exactly and precisely what do YOU think this means: God created us in His image.

reply to post by jiggerj

 

Again, I refer you to the link.

MarsHill

From your link:

Pastor Mark Driscoll teaches .........................(blah, blah, blah)..................... – What Christians Should Believe.

It never ceases to amaze me that people want other people to them what they should believe!

Originally posted by jiggerj
2. Light is made up of photons. If god created light, where did he get the photons? If you want to say that he brought together the materials to make suns (that produce light), where did he get the materials to make the suns? Again, magic?
----------------------------------------------------

There's a lot to learn with Quantum Mechanics. The most empty space you could imagine is not really empty. It's populated with virtual photons. They are invisible but under special circumstances, the virtual photons can become real photons and cause physical effects.

If you have full knowledge of these scientific principles which our best scientists don't. You can create something from nothing - from the unseen virtual particles.

3. If a god exists, doesn't that mean that we have no personal value whatsoever? If you take pieces of wood and make them into checkers on a checkerboard, can they move themselves or are they wholly at the mercy of your whims? You can throw them out, burn them, cast them into a drawer and never touch them again. So, if god created you, and if you are wholly at the mercy of his whims, what personal value can you have? Doesn't the existence of a creator with a grand design (a purpose of his own) render you purposeless?
-------------------------------------------------

Have you you ever created/built something?? Have you ever built a car from scratch? Have you ever built a house from scratch?

Would you ever feel like throwing mud at your creation? Thrash it? Wreck it? How would you feel if someone said your creation is ugly and hopeless??

Have you ever felt like your creation is of no value?

4. We like to repeat phrases without having any clue as to what they mean, and we take them as fact. Take this phrase for instance: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What does that mean? What is the word?

God is the truth. The truth existed since the beginning and it applies to all corners of the Universe.

It's like gravity. Find any planet in any part of the Universe, fall from a great height towards it and the result will always be the same! You don't have to hear and to believe gravity exists or it works. It works whether you believe it or not, or whether you've heard it or not!

reply to post by windword



If I said "love". Do everything that feels like love. If you can do this, than there is only one outcome, love. Would you be willing to believe? Doesn't everyone want to believe in love? Then just believe and show others that you believe in love and they will know you believe in love.

God, no God, many gods cant we just believe in love. We can let the scholars figure out the rest, while we go on loving.

It never ceases to amaze me that people want other people to them what they should believe!

reply to post by windword


Nobody is asking you to believe anything. Believe what you want.
The video provided simply defines the basis of Christian belief for those who are interested, and specifically in answer to the question that was posted, which was directly related to the Christian doctrine.

The way I look at it is religion is simply a theory, maybe 2000 or so years ago with mankind's limited knowledge it was a theory that made sense to them.

However in the modern world religion is a theory that can be easily dismissed. Read the bible, realise very quickly that statements made in the bible are untrue and then dismiss the theory of religion. It holds no weight whatsoever.

The sooner we all realise we weren't created by a magical sky wizard the sooner mankind can cast off the shackles of religion and come together and move forward.