lol, Imagine if he did actualy say that, what would happen, I mean after the way you all carried on after what Lennon said, dare I say it, aahh i
better not a large majority of americans might flip out into uncontrolable religious experiences and start burning old beatles records again.
yes OP, Obama is oozing his BLT teachings almost as much as he tried to separate himself from them last election cycle.
from his initial Beer Summit to his latest EO on black only education.
it's a shame more ppl don't know greater details about this Theology or how Farrakhan himself was cast out of NOI years ago. (confined to a mental
ward for awhile if i remember correctly)
this kind of talk is just "light enough" to spark debates about all the wrong topics.
anyone really wanting to know what O is saying should read some of the BLT sermons, not the commentary of others.
Reverend Wright has long endeavored to be a pivotal agent of change in this country.
close contact with Obama provides him with access never before available.
and, he's certainly not getting any younger.
OP, thanks for bringing this into open discussion.
Obama encouraged distraction/deflection last cycle, let's see a spotlight on it this cycle.
if you have/or get a pre-existing condition, God forbid, when you are older, you'll thank obama when you get treated and not thrown out the front
door of the insurance company or thrown like a rotton bag of potatoes to the curb by your employer because you will no longer be profitable to
his healthcare reform has and will save countless lives in the future.
in the end you're in the forest and can't see the trees, what he did with healthcare was monumental and future generations will finally give him
the credit he is not getting now.
mitt said he would already if elected repeal healthcare reform, that's the price obama paid to get it passed.
it is no accident it kicks in fully 2014.
so americans may never even get the chance and are nailing their own coffins.
and the way the world and corporatism is choking humanity, it won't be long before the average american find themselves with useless medical
but by then it would have been to late, the president won't be in office and the future can never be certain that they will revisit this basic of
human life and fundamental right, the right to a healthy life.
First, there is no such thing as "collective salvation", any more than there is such a thing as "social justice". Salvation is always on an
individual basis, and justice is a legal concept, not a social one. What these two things have in common is their misuse for a political agenda by
collectivists.. "Collective salvation" and "liberation theology" are nothing more than lame attempts by collectivists to hide their political
agenda behind a veneer of religion in order to attempt to make it more palatable to a religious audience.
Black Liberation Theology is the Christian version of the Nation of Islam.
In a way, this is factual. They are both political movements hiding behind a religious smoke screen. Black Liberation Theology, as promoted by Cone,
is an offshoot branch of the broader "Liberation Theology" umbrella that wrought such havoc in Latin America in the 60's, 70's and 80's, as
promoted by the Jesuits there. Cone, seeing the havoc wrought there, co-opted and promoted the concept here as a race-based divisive tactic. Mr.
Wright (there is nothing "reverend" about the man, and I will not refer to him as such and sully the concept) picked up that ball and ran with
It attempts to negate the Constitution, but not the Bible nor the Qur'an. It attempts instead to do an end-run around the latter two, because to
negate them would be to cut it's own props out from under it.
Obama said his individual salvation depends on collective salvation.
To do so it to doom ones self, simply because "the collective" is made up entirely of individuals, each of whom has their own mind and will go in
their own direction. This is why "collective salvation" is impossible. It would amount to an individual riding into heaven on the coattails of a
collective, sneaking in through the back door, going to heave on a legalistic technicality. it obviates the responsibility of the individual to look
after his own salvation, since he could simply storm the gates of heaven because his collective says so. The last time that happened was at the Tower
of Babel, and we see how well that went.
Be that as it may, Obama is welcome to tie his own salvation to an impossibility. It's his choice, and his own doom that he seals, not mine, yours,
or any other person's. It's my understanding that rejection of salvation given in order to try to work one's own way into heaven by force and his
own efforts just never really goes all that well.
Obama said in his speech, my path is harder but it leads to a better place.
How much harder?
Again, this goes back to Black Liberation Theology.
In order to reach this New Age of Collective Salvation everyone must sacrifice to reach Obama's vision. This is why he uses the language of
transformation. He wants to change and transform America. Again, this is Black Liberation Theology.
This is because their religion is things like social justice and their political ideology. This is something you would expect to hear from Ahmadinejad
or Hamas. This is religious zealotry at it's worst.
So individual salvation and individual rights have to be sacrificed for collective salvation. Individual salvation(religion) depends on collective
salvation(social justice,political ideology).
Most people don't know the language Obama is speaking because they don't understand Black Liberation Theology, the N.O.I. or Liberation theologies
in general. Individual rights mean nothing and they have to be sacrificed in favor of collective salvation.
People talked about Obama using flowery language. For the most part, this wasn't just flowery language, it was the language of Black Liberation
So it's no surprise that people projected this messianic image to Obama. This is because he wrapped his political ideology in the language of
religion. So he wasn't going to be another politician, he was going to change and transform the world.
See, Black Liberation Theology distorts Christianity to fit it's political ideology. So Jesus didn't die on the Cross to save people and conquer
sin. Jesus was the victim of a lynching from the oppressors at that time. Here's Cone.
JAMES CONE, THEOLOGIAN: Any group that has institutional power, they are violent. Therefore the mainline denominations in this country have been
violent against black people. The crucifixion of Jesus was a First Century lynching. America has a tradition of lynching in which America lynched more
than 5,000 black people in this land. The Christian church said very little about it. It was very violent, lynching.
So if we understand the cross correctly, we will see it as Jesus being a victim of lynching, a victim of violence. So at the heart of the Christian
faith is God taking upon God's self the suffering of the victim. When you see a lynched black body, that's who God is.
Lynching was horrible. Slavery was horrible. So was the Holocaust, so was the killings under people like Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Tse-tung.
It's dangerous when you elevate social justice to a religious belief. It would be like a Russian starting a religion and using a religion like
Christianity or Islam, to couch their new religion based on those who died at the hands of Stalin.
You would be mixing two things that shouldn't be mixed. So you would be justifying hatred by using religion. This is what Obama was taught for 20
years under Rev. Wright.
He said his individual salvation is not going to come about without a collective salvation for the country.
This is the danger of Black Liberation Theology. Their individual salvation doesn't depend on Jesus. Obama said his individual salvation will not
come about without collective salvation for the country. So Jesus was just lynched and salvation comes through things like social justice and
Here's a video of Obama talking about sacrifice to bring in this new age.
How many people besides the extremists who follow the Nation of Islam really have an understanding about it or bother to study it unless it was a
course in school? And who would take the course? Unfortunately you can't put on a chart how many people understand the deep inner workings of Black
I did. It WAS a course. At University. I studied it fairly extensively, and the particular branch you are referring to, and which is being discussed
here, is not simply "Black Theology", it's "Black LIBERATION Theology". Not much, really, in the way of theology under the veneer. It's nearly
The scary thing about Obama is he was raised by people that believe collective salvation should be brought about by a form of Communism,
Marxism...whatever ism works fastest for them except capitalism.
His grandparents were radical Communists and he education got more extreme from there on out.
Liberation Theology and Communism go hand in hand. LT is one of the hooks, some of the bait, they use to sucker converts in to be used as cannon
The main text was Cone''s "A Black Theology of Liberation", and it was some fairly scary stuff - not only wanting to use religion as a facade for
political action, but wanting to wrest religion away from "the white man", even to the point of giving God a skin transplant - as if God has any
color at all!
One of the undercurrents is that religion is a strong motivator for many people, and so it ought to be denied whites and forced upon blacks, with a
brand spanking new makeover for God, so that he comforms visually with his newly restructured flock.
I would appreciate it if you would keep Ahmadinejad out of this discussion since this kind of bull is not ever in a million years something propounded
by Ahmadinejad or Shi'ah Islam! We DO NOT believe this! This opposes Islam...
so, if we could simply keep to the topic of Obama I would much appreciate it!
edit on 10-9-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)
What he's saying in effect is that we are each our brother's keeper, and that staunch individualism, taken to the extreme simply leads to all manner
of lust, greed, envy, selfishness, separation, etc etc. However, there does need to be a balance between both ends of the spectrum where individual
civil liberty ie: unfettered freedom is the very rock of the nation, and where collectivism taken too far erodes that rock. In everything there should
be balance. Also, no one person, except Jesus himself can take resonsibiliy for another's salvation. We each must work out our own salvation in fear
and trembling, with a little help from our friends.
I think the OP is right that it's pretty radical of Obama to state that his individual salvation rests on the collective salvation of one nation,
which although certainly in dire need of it, is something that can only be realized one person at a time, where there really is no such thing as a
"GROUP", only individuals and individual responsibility ie: individual citizenship.
edit on 10-9-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
That said, I would like to reiterate - there is no such thing really as a GROUP, only individuals with common interersts. Thus, the whole idea of a
"collectivist" society undermines the very cornerstone of that society which is unfettered individual civil liberty with civic responsibility or
citizenship. Staunch individualism who cares nothing for one's neighbor is however even MORE abhorrent and even less helpful to the common good. It's
a tough call.
The Christian ethos, as I understand it, strikes the perfect balance between absolute individual freedom and the loving compassion for one's neighbor
which binds us together in a loving family framework that is considerate of our enlightened mutual best interests.
It is the ignorance and foolishness of self-willed man which always swings from one extreme to the other, wheras Jesus the divine-man was always in
perfect balance and harmony.
edit on 10-9-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by neoholographic
Yes Obama claimed to be the messiah and this is exactly why Farrakhan called him the messiah.
Check your sources...present them in context...if you are not sure what that means...it is NOT
what the creator of the video in the OP did.
“Brothers and sisters,” Farrakhan said, “Barack Obama to me, is a herald of the Messiah. Barack Obama is like the trumpet that alerts you
something new, something better is on the way.”
Farrakhan points out that the man Nation of Islam followers refer to as “the Saviour,” Fard Muhammad, had a black father and a white mother, just
as Obama did.
“A black man with a white mother became a saviour to us,” he said. “A black man with a white mother could turn out to be one who can lift
America from her fall.
“Would God allow Barack to be president of a country that has been so racist, so evil in its treatment of Hispanics, native Americans, blacks?” he
asked. “Would God do something like that? Yeah. Of course he would. That’s to show you that the stone that the builders rejected has become the
headstone of the corner. This is a sign to you. It’s the time of our rise. It’s the time that we should take our place. The future is all about
Farrakhan suggested he would keep a low profile in the campaign, despite his enthusiasm for Obama.
“That’s why you have never heard me make any comment,” he explained. “I love that brother, and I want to see that brother successful. I
don’t want to say anything that would hurt that brother, and I don’t want them to use me or the Nation of Islam.”
Returning to the theme that Obama is a mystical figure, Farrakhan said, he “is not the Messiah for sure, but anytime he gives you a sign of uniting
races, ethnic groups, ideologies, religions and makes people feel a sense of oneness, that’s not necessarily Satan’s work, that is, I believe, the
work of God.”
He went on to point out that when religious scholars talk about Christ or the Islamic Mahdi, they never talk in racial terms – again, pointing to
Obama’s mixed racial background.
Ah! Did you read that? Turns out the man was using METAPHORS. Like the bible uses a lot of metaphors and allegories and other nifty things to help us
understand things beyond the pale....such as'and neither shall they learn war any more'and 'the leaves of the tree were for
the healing of the nations.'
Jesus didn't say I'm the Messiah when he read Isaiah 61. He read Isaiah and the Jews knew what he was saying.
That statement seems totally unrelated to any of this...but maybe it's just me.
If you read about Black Liberation Theology and Collective Salvation then you know exactly what he was talking about.
I don't. But I do read the bible and it seems to have the general theme of COLLECTIVE salvation in it, too...for GOD so loved the WORLD...and then
there is that awkward part about LOVE YOUR ENEMIES...
Again, this is why Farrakhan called him the messiah.
I think I provided clarification for that assumption.
Obama said, his individual salvation depends on collective salvation.
Sadly, people are ignorant as to what this means.
Yes. Very sad.
Obama says he's a Christian so Obama knows what individual salvation means. It's RADICAL for a President of the United States to say he's
bringing any kind of salvation to the Country. Obama went even further.
HE SAID HIS INDIVIDUAL SALVATION DEPENDS ON IT.
Well...it is about damn time we had a leader that actually gave a rat's patooty about the people who elected him...and equally about those that did
Again, if this was uttered by Bush, Reagan or just about any other Presidents Liberals would be marching in the street.
IT'S ZEALOTRY AT IT'S WORSE.
Or...it might just turn out to be altruism at its finest.
Altruism based not on religious affiliation but community...
What a novel idea!
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
The whole message at the DNC was collectivism. The concept was promoted constantly in speech after speech with pretty flowery words. It is like the
pretty poison of the blowfish.
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