Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Existence explained (through simple observation)

page: 2
6
<< 1   >>

log in

join

posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 04:50 AM
link   
Existence is what is seen, it is the scene, the dream that is full of colour and sound. Reality is what is seeing, it is the dreamer. When you actively search for what is seeing the scene you will be surprised to find there is no form to be found.

There is no answer to the question 'Who am I?'
When one searches for the root of the 'I' thought, the seeker is itself exposed and proven as myth.
This results in the dissolution of the sense of separateness and the ultimate recognition of Truth, the imageless background of all appearances.
Awareness is the Unchanging, in which all arises and is percieved as an ephemeral play.
Mooji.




posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 04:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
I can conclude that you are definitely not, "pure silence".



Who am "I"? The thoughts, the words, the body? I am not. I am pure silence.

Although actively trying to quiet the mind will help bring this awareness closer.


It is not possible to quiet the mind. Instead notice the quiet the thoughts appear in.
The Quiet that Contains the Mind: youtu.be...
edit on 9-9-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 11:40 AM
link   
reply to post by demonchaste
 





Originally posted by demonchaste
reply to post by arpgme
 

I think the question is the problem and the problem is the answer.


I don't think there is a "problem". Sure, we cause an illusion of a separate reality (from what truly exists) by putting our beliefs, intentions, and emotions on to things, but the fact is that whatever it is simply "exists".

I can see that a tree is good, evil, or has a "purpose" to keep us alive. That is all human ideas, but the simply fact is that the tree exists.

How do we know that the tree exists? Because it can be perceived. Even if the human eye is not seeing the tree in its true form (whatever it may be), the simple fact that we can perceived the tree, in any form, is self-evident that it exists.

All things exists and nothing is non-existence. Even if a "tree" is just the human view of what-is-really-there, the "idea" of a tree is in itself existent.


Originally posted by demonchaste
reply to post by arpgme
 

The only thing we can be certain of is that we exist because we are aware,


Yes, with the "awareness" we know that we exists, but even if the body was dead - that dead body would still be "existent".


reply to post by g0dhims3lf
 



Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
reply to post by arpgme
 


Reality would only be a part of existence and calling it an illusion is only stating it may not be what it seems to be.


I think I misunderstood the word "illusion". Certainly the human perspective of reality is an illusion, since the human brain filters reality to "what is beneficial (to the human)" or "what is dangerous (to the human) - and then things become "good" or "bad" - splitting reality into two categories.

The truth is, existence exists and humans put "purpose" on existence through their own minds which causes the human illusion of reality.

reply to post by Itisnowagain
 



Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Existence is what is seen


The observer isn't seen and yet the observer exists. Only existence exists, non-existence does not exist.



Originally posted by Itisnowagain
There is no answer to the question 'Who am I?'


This is true. If existences simply exists, and life is what causes thought, emotion, intention, action, desire...

then with simple existence there is no thought of "I" or individual "emotion" or "intention".

These are all the result of life, for the human body to protect itself and continue to survive.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
It is not possible to quiet the mind. Instead notice the quiet the thoughts appear in.


You are correct. Humans are living and therefore as life continues to happen human thought, emotion, and intention will continue to arise. However, we can take the time out to quiet the mind, through meditation by focusing on the breathing without thought, but eventually as human life continues the thoughts will return.

What can be done, is allowing the thoughts to come and then releasing them. By releasing what comes, we can keep the awareness that "we" aren't the body, thoughts, intentions, or emotions, because all these things come and go (change).

Even with the release of thought, the body will still do what it does. Life will still continue to happen, because you are not the body so your thoughts do not "matter". The body will instinctively do what it does to try to keep itself alive.

For example, if the hand is put into fire, the body will instinctively move it - the "thought" doesn't even have to be needed so it can be released.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 01:05 PM
link   
plato.stanford.edu... is not a predicate ( characteristic, property) NO-THING-NESS
“People are scared to empty their minds fearing that they will be engulfed by the void. What they don’t realize is that their own mind is the void.”
Huang Po
FROM
headless.org...


plato.stanford.edu...
If you visualize a triangle, there is no triangle in your brain.* Neurons do not fire in a triangular shape etc. There is nothing there , there is no extension! en.wikipedia.org...
Ironically, photons, electrons etc have no extension!!!! In our conventional materialistic paradigm, how can ANYTHING that has no volume be said to exist?
* My triangle argument is similar to en.wikipedia.org... . However, I believe that it is an improvement because “Mary’s room” argument still accepts an objectively physical color( that is perceived, taken in, from the "outside" ** world). In my example there is no objectively existing triangle!
edit on 9-9-2012 by wittgenstein because: (no reason given)

** Which involves the en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 9-9-2012 by wittgenstein because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-9-2012 by wittgenstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 09:57 PM
link   
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Nothing has to go anywhere for there to be an afterlife. Identity is variable. When this body that "I" identify with ceases to exist, "I" will find something else to identify with. Everything that is is one isness. Individuality is a temporary illusion. When you die, you become your true self. That is, the all. You identify with the all. You say, "I am this", pointing to everything- pointing to yourself. You don't have to wait until you die. You can say it and see it now... if you want.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 11:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by wittgenstein
“People are scared to empty their minds fearing that they will be engulfed by the void. What they don’t realize is that their own mind is the void.”
Huang Po
FROM
headless.org...


That makes a lot of sense to me. Non-existence is non-existent, therefore non-existence does not exist.

Saying it normally: there is no such thing as nothing.

Therefore, even the "void" is something that is why I choose to call it "space", or "silence".

It seems very likely that existence (the true self - if there is a 'self') is the emptiness or silence that thought seems to fill.



Originally posted by wittgenstein
plato.stanford.edu... is not a predicate ( characteristic, property) NO-THING-NESS
“People are scared to empty their minds fearing that they will be engulfed by the void. What they don’t realize is that their own mind is the void.”
Huang Po
FROM
headless.org...


plato.stanford.edu...
If you visualize a triangle, there is no triangle in your brain.* Neurons do not fire in a triangular shape etc. There is nothing there , there is no extension! en.wikipedia.org...
Ironically, photons, electrons etc have no extension!!!! In our conventional materialistic paradigm, how can ANYTHING that has no volume be said to exist?


I think you are confusing "existence" with "reality".

All things are existent, but not all things are real...

In other words, even something that we can only see in the mind, is still existent, it is an idea.

There are two forms of existence (that I am aware of)

that which is imaginary (mental - only in the mind), and that which is actual (reality - outside of the mind).


Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by jiggerj
 

When you die, you become your true self. That is, the all. You identify with the all. You say, "I am this", pointing to everything- pointing to yourself. You don't have to wait until you die. You can say it and see it now... if you want.


Or, instead of identifying with all things, you can identify with no-thing and understand that you are the formless behind all things - just pure existence.

There is existence - existence can be manifested as form - and yes existence is all things - but what are you? Are you a thing?

Are you the thoughts, emotions, intentions which come and go? Because all of those things are just the result of life, so are you just an effect of life happening? I don't think so. You are beyond the body, thought, emotion, and intention - you are beyond all things because you can see "things" come and go and whatever you see "come and go" (whether a body, or a thought, or an emotion, or a desire) it isn't you.

So even a spirit is not aware of its true form if it believes itself to be the make up of its intentions, because intentions are only the result of experience.



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 06:32 AM
link   
“Or, instead of identifying with all things, you can identify with no-thing and understand that you are the formless behind all things - just pure existence.”
Arpgme

That was my point. NO-THING-NESS ( in other words formless, propertyless, predicateless)
Existence is NO-THING-NESS , it is not a property etc!
The mind is NO-THING-NESS! Consciousness is not a property. That is why some philosophers (en.wikipedia.org... for example ) deny that consciousness is a meaningful term. *
Similarly, plato.stanford.edu... is not a property!
* In my seminar paper at university I destroyed Dennett's argument. I destroyed this in particular,
ase.tufts.edu...
www.trinity.edu...
edit on 10-9-2012 by wittgenstein because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 10:21 AM
link   
reply to post by wittgenstein
 


Even if something is formless it is still existence because existence is all there can be.

I like the way you say it though no-thing-ness (formless).



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 07:03 AM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


i feel we are a almagamation of feelings. They are captured togther in a vessel we call our physical body. The emotions swirl inside of us until one day the vessel fractures and they are released to the outer. This cycle is the function and purpose of the creation of the vessels.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 09:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by arpgme
 


i feel we are a almagamation of feelings. They are captured togther in a vessel we call our physical body. The emotions swirl inside of us until one day the vessel fractures and they are released to the outer. This cycle is the function and purpose of the creation of the vessels.


You are the knower of feelings. Feelings come and go but you remain as you always have been.
When you realize the truth you will see there is no 'inner' or 'outer'. It is one.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 08:39 PM
link   
reply to post by arpgme
 


thank you i need to remind myself of that sometimes.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 09:37 AM
link   
I hope this post is not seen as insulting the many fine posts already posted. I just think my point was not clear. Existence is not a predicate ( property, characteristic etc) For example, if one says that one has 12 existing coins in one's pocket and 3 non-existing coins, adding "existing" to the description of a coin adds nothing to it's description!






top topics



 
6
<< 1   >>

log in

join