Augghh. What?
So with no further double-talk, where is "existence explained" as your title says?
Existence explained (through simple observation), page 1
reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 04:52 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by arpgme
You were deeply rooted in logic right up until this point:
How can you go from understanding that even a rock exists, to such unprovable, metaphysical assumptions?
If everything in the universe is made from, well, everything in the universe, then how can anyone claim that our energy goes on after death while the energy of a bug or a drop of water doesn't? Does water go into another dimension when it evaporates? No, it stays right here. Does the energy of a rotting tree slip into some unknown void? No, all of it's gases and material stay right here. Not one bit of anything can slip out of this universe.
You were deeply rooted in logic right up until this point:
but there is something beyond life and it is pure existence
How can you go from understanding that even a rock exists, to such unprovable, metaphysical assumptions?
If everything in the universe is made from, well, everything in the universe, then how can anyone claim that our energy goes on after death while the energy of a bug or a drop of water doesn't? Does water go into another dimension when it evaporates? No, it stays right here. Does the energy of a rotting tree slip into some unknown void? No, all of it's gases and material stay right here. Not one bit of anything can slip out of this universe.
reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 05:35 PM by arpgme
reply to post by plank
Exactly. The quality of existence is to exist. The quality of life is to live, but it is the living which creates desire, intention, emotion, and thought.
This "entity" of you, already does not exist. It is an illusion when you hold on to preferences/desires, then you say "that is what makes me - me". There is no cell in your body from when you were a baby that is there today, the body as you knew it already "died" and there are completely new cells. Maybe you are speaking holistically believing that you are not just the cells but the entire body - and to that I'll reply in this way: since you do not feel the "awareness" of your cells, how do you know that you aren't everything from out of your body as well?
Living or non-living all is connected by Existence.
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
Maybe you are right. Typing on an internet forum is not exactly "instinct", but I guess it doesn't matter anyway. I was explaining existence not telling people that they must live in a specific way - but if they want - they can release it all and just be.
reply to post by Rapha
I wasn't asking the question, I was just making up titles which happen to be questions in order to organize and explain...
Will you respond to the actual information presented?
reply to post by jiggerj
I explained things in this way, Existence, and then a sub-group of that is Life, so saying that there are things "beyond" life, means that there are things which exists but are not living. Which part of that is assumption?
Is a stapler living? Is a rock living? Or are they just beyond the sub-group I called "Life" and just existence?
I don't think I make such a claim here. When you say "our energy" what do you mean? Your thoughts? Your emotions? Your intentions? Those things are not you because you can witness them change, come and go. So, it isn't your "energy" (whether you believe it is physical or not).
The tree may rot and die but it is still existent. It left the sub-category of life, and now it is in the broader category of just "existence".
I call life a "sub-category" of exist because all life is existence but not all existence is life.
reply to post by g0dhims3lf
There is no reason to assume that something doesn't exist unless there is proof. Why should we believe that Mars, Venus, and the other planets didn't exist until we proved so?
Are you reading my words? Then they exist - they are "being" here for you to see - so we can conclude that existence exists.
Originally posted by plank
There is fundamental differences between something that exists and something that is alive.
Exactly. The quality of existence is to exist. The quality of life is to live, but it is the living which creates desire, intention, emotion, and thought.
Originally posted by plank
Once the biological machine is no longer able to keep the specific combination of atoms that permits my body to not decay, i will die. Me as the entity i was will no longer exist. Of course the atoms that were once me will still exist.
This "entity" of you, already does not exist. It is an illusion when you hold on to preferences/desires, then you say "that is what makes me - me". There is no cell in your body from when you were a baby that is there today, the body as you knew it already "died" and there are completely new cells. Maybe you are speaking holistically believing that you are not just the cells but the entire body - and to that I'll reply in this way: since you do not feel the "awareness" of your cells, how do you know that you aren't everything from out of your body as well?
Living or non-living all is connected by Existence.
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
I was going to say something poignant and get a bunch of stars but my mind of pure existence released it while I was typing.
Maybe you are right. Typing on an internet forum is not exactly "instinct", but I guess it doesn't matter anyway. I was explaining existence not telling people that they must live in a specific way - but if they want - they can release it all and just be.
reply to post by Rapha
I wasn't asking the question, I was just making up titles which happen to be questions in order to organize and explain...
Will you respond to the actual information presented?
reply to post by jiggerj
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by arpgme
You were deeply rooted in logic right up until this point:
but there is something beyond life and it is pure existence
How can you go from understanding that even a rock exists, to such unprovable, metaphysical assumptions?
I explained things in this way, Existence, and then a sub-group of that is Life, so saying that there are things "beyond" life, means that there are things which exists but are not living. Which part of that is assumption?
Is a stapler living? Is a rock living? Or are they just beyond the sub-group I called "Life" and just existence?
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by arpgme
If everything in the universe is made from, well, everything in the universe, then how can anyone claim that our energy goes on after death while the energy of a bug or a drop of water doesn't?
I don't think I make such a claim here. When you say "our energy" what do you mean? Your thoughts? Your emotions? Your intentions? Those things are not you because you can witness them change, come and go. So, it isn't your "energy" (whether you believe it is physical or not).
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by arpgme
Does the energy of a rotting tree slip into some unknown void?
The tree may rot and die but it is still existent. It left the sub-category of life, and now it is in the broader category of just "existence".
I call life a "sub-category" of exist because all life is existence but not all existence is life.
reply to post by g0dhims3lf
Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
We don't exist until it is proven that we do. Only one that makes the claim of existence has the obligation to prove it therefore until such time I don't believe that we do.
There is no reason to assume that something doesn't exist unless there is proof. Why should we believe that Mars, Venus, and the other planets didn't exist until we proved so?
Are you reading my words? Then they exist - they are "being" here for you to see - so we can conclude that existence exists.
edit on 8-9-2012 by arpgme because: spelling errors
reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 07:06 PM by g0dhims3lf
reply to post by arpgme
by "you" I mean "me" by me I mean "no-one" by no-one I mean "nothing" by nothing I mean
(.......) << non-existence undefinable.
PS: Im just being a pest I actually enjoyed what you wrote and I too like to question things. If I never questioned then I would constantly have a head full of unorganized confusion, it is only when researching, reading and discussing that focus is applied.
Ok I found a video that was not a hundred hours long in layman's terms for me to understand. Basically it is pointless to question or try to figure out existence itself because it represents everything. Therefore you first should question the things that make up existence first. Reality, time, self etc.... is reality an illusion, is time travel possible, are we connected through some unseen energy. These types of questions need to be understood. So if you want to know what existence is or is not you must first come to know and be able to define everything that is included within it.
by "you" I mean "me" by me I mean "no-one" by no-one I mean "nothing" by nothing I mean
(.......) << non-existence undefinable.
PS: Im just being a pest I actually enjoyed what you wrote and I too like to question things. If I never questioned then I would constantly have a head full of unorganized confusion, it is only when researching, reading and discussing that focus is applied.
Ok I found a video that was not a hundred hours long in layman's terms for me to understand. Basically it is pointless to question or try to figure out existence itself because it represents everything. Therefore you first should question the things that make up existence first. Reality, time, self etc.... is reality an illusion, is time travel possible, are we connected through some unseen energy. These types of questions need to be understood. So if you want to know what existence is or is not you must first come to know and be able to define everything that is included within it.
edit on 8-9-2012 by g0dhims3lf because: (no reason given)
edit on 8-9-2012 by g0dhims3lf because: (no reason
given)
edit on 8-9-2012 by g0dhims3lf because: added video
reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 07:52 PM by arpgme
reply to post by g0dhims3lf
That video makes a lot sense. This is why I said that it doesn't make sense to ask "why" things exist. Because to question "why" something is doing something (existing), then we have to go beyond it.
For example, why does water exist, well from the human perspective - it's there to keep us alive. In reality it just "is".
(notice why I said existence is the only true perspective - because anything else adds opinions OVER reality instead of seeing it as it really is).
To ask "why" something exists, you have to go beyond it, but how can one go beyond existence (anything and possibly everything that did, is, will, or may exist)? There would be "nothing" else...
Anyway, Existence is All.
I don't understand the idea that existence is "illusion", because if existence is all there is, what are we comparing it to in order to call it an "illusion?
That video makes a lot sense. This is why I said that it doesn't make sense to ask "why" things exist. Because to question "why" something is doing something (existing), then we have to go beyond it.
For example, why does water exist, well from the human perspective - it's there to keep us alive. In reality it just "is".
(notice why I said existence is the only true perspective - because anything else adds opinions OVER reality instead of seeing it as it really is).
To ask "why" something exists, you have to go beyond it, but how can one go beyond existence (anything and possibly everything that did, is, will, or may exist)? There would be "nothing" else...
Anyway, Existence is All.
I don't understand the idea that existence is "illusion", because if existence is all there is, what are we comparing it to in order to call it an "illusion?
edit on 8-9-2012 by arpgme because: spelling
reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 08:28 PM by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by arpgme
I'd just like to say that I enjoy your posts and consider you a highlight among philosophical posters on the threads I've read. My comment wasn't meant to mock and I think your point here is a good one.
I'd just like to say that I enjoy your posts and consider you a highlight among philosophical posters on the threads I've read. My comment wasn't meant to mock and I think your point here is a good one.
reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 09:03 PM by wittgenstein
“The quality of existence is to exist.”
arpgme
Existence is not a Predicate!
www.philosophyofreligion.info...
plato.stanford.edu...
arpgme
Existence is not a Predicate!
www.philosophyofreligion.info...
plato.stanford.edu...
reply posted on 8-9-2012 @ 09:42 PM by arpgme
reply to post by wittgenstein
It seems like you have an issue more with the way I phrased the language rather than the actually philosophical argument.
Instead of saying "The quality of existence is to exist", let me say it in another way.
To exist is to exist. To live results in thought, desire, and intention, therefore, there is no "purpose" of existence since "purpose" implies intentions (or a finish place or goal) and such thinking can only exist in life.
For example, a person can say "The purpose of water is to keep us alive".
In reality, water has no "purpose" - it just exists, but living beings can drink it to keep themselves alive.
The reality is that everything just exists. The idea that thinks have "purpose" can only existence from the intentions of the individual who's thinking.
It seems like you have an issue more with the way I phrased the language rather than the actually philosophical argument.
Instead of saying "The quality of existence is to exist", let me say it in another way.
To exist is to exist. To live results in thought, desire, and intention, therefore, there is no "purpose" of existence since "purpose" implies intentions (or a finish place or goal) and such thinking can only exist in life.
For example, a person can say "The purpose of water is to keep us alive".
In reality, water has no "purpose" - it just exists, but living beings can drink it to keep themselves alive.
The reality is that everything just exists. The idea that thinks have "purpose" can only existence from the intentions of the individual who's thinking.
reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 01:10 AM by demonchaste
reply to post by arpgme
I think the question is the problem and the problem is the answer. The observer is perceiving only that which can be perceived by our limited sensory perception, relative to the observer, further limited by the unique attributes such as brain chemistry and life experience, confining the observers ability to perceive to only that which makes sense to the observer. No 2 individuals perceive the world as the same, but from their own unique slant. The only thing we can be certain of is that we exist because we are aware, everything else has been been assembled and put together by our physical brain. It is what it is regardless of how we see it or want it to be. So, where the hell was I? I'm pretty sure things exist outside the spectrum of human experience, but you are very brave to venture forth with your telling of what seems to be an almost impossible one man attempt at explaining existence, I'm not even in the ballpark anymore...This is my first post, n
I think the question is the problem and the problem is the answer. The observer is perceiving only that which can be perceived by our limited sensory perception, relative to the observer, further limited by the unique attributes such as brain chemistry and life experience, confining the observers ability to perceive to only that which makes sense to the observer. No 2 individuals perceive the world as the same, but from their own unique slant. The only thing we can be certain of is that we exist because we are aware, everything else has been been assembled and put together by our physical brain. It is what it is regardless of how we see it or want it to be. So, where the hell was I? I'm pretty sure things exist outside the spectrum of human experience, but you are very brave to venture forth with your telling of what seems to be an almost impossible one man attempt at explaining existence, I'm not even in the ballpark anymore...This is my first post, n
reply posted on 9-9-2012 @ 02:00 AM by g0dhims3lf
reply to post by arpgme
Reality would only be a part of existence and calling it an illusion is only stating it may not be what it seems to be. There are many theories that make sense about what reality may or may not be beyond what we are able to perceive it as. Existence may be made up of multiple realities in which case reality in itself is only a necessary but not sufficient part of existence.
Reality would only be a part of existence and calling it an illusion is only stating it may not be what it seems to be. There are many theories that make sense about what reality may or may not be beyond what we are able to perceive it as. Existence may be made up of multiple realities in which case reality in itself is only a necessary but not sufficient part of existence.
edit on 9-9-2012 by g0dhims3lf because: (no reason
given)
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