What is going on here?, page 3

reply to post by _BoneZ_

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Well, all of those were military aircraft, i do not see the reason for your skepticism.

It reminds me of 9/11 scoffers..the world view dictates what is beliieved, NORMALCY is what is cried by the naysayers...

These dam trails whatever they are, are surely causing a great deal more climate change than anyone of the deniers would care to admit, and (LOL) they say it is only because airlines want to save money !

It would seem obvious that in conditions that would form these heavy contrails, that elevation is certainly NOT a prime location for flying, super cold with massively dense air ??

Sounds like an energy drag situation, please enlighten us with science as to how it is BETTER to fly and create clouds that darken the planet to save a few dollars with yet again NO REAL EVIDENCE of how this benefits anyone...all the while ruining the skies, hiding the stars, and releasing all manner of gases into elevation levels that OTHERWISE DO NOT GET TOUCHED.

I would think all the contrailers would be on the case to prove that CONTRAILS ARE DANGEROUS,, and not the friendly lovely clouds they so truly love.

How could these possibly get so much love from such a weird crowd ?? We want to know.

reply to post by GrinchNoMore

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There's no denying that contrails are causing sun blockage. Airline companies and manufacturers are well aware of the problem and are working on ways to reduce moisture in jet engines so as to reduce contrails.

To answer your other question, due to the density of the air at those higher altitudes, the wings produce more lift, thus making the engines work less harder and actually making the aircraft fly faster. That saves fuel costs because the aircraft can fly farther, faster at higher altitudes than it could at lower altitudes.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by _BoneZ_

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These dam trails whatever they are, are surely causing a great deal more climate change than anyone of the deniers would care to admit,

"Deniers" admit they cause as much climate change as the science shows they do - which is not all that much.

Do you have any evidence that contradicts that??

Or is it that you just don't care about facts?

...and (LOL) they say it is only because airlines want to save money !

They don't make contrails for any reason at all - they couldn't care less whether they make contrails or not.

It would seem obvious that in conditions that would form these heavy contrails, that elevation is certainly NOT a prime location for flying, super cold with massively dense air ??

That is nonsensical.

Air at higher altitudes is less dense, not "massively dense" .

Sounds like an energy drag situation, please enlighten us with science as to how it is BETTER....

Here you go, or here, or here for something a bit more "scientific" while still being readable

to fly and create clouds that darken the planet to save a few dollars with yet again NO REAL EVIDENCE of how this benefits anyone...

Except for causing less pollution through burning less fuel and allowing cheaper travel?

....all the while ruining the skies, hiding the stars, and releasing all manner of gases into elevation levels that OTHERWISE DO NOT GET TOUCHED.

Ah - so you are against pollution - well that is fair enough.

But of course the pollution is there whether contrails are formed or not - so are you against all high altitude flying??

I would think all the contrailers would be on the case to prove that CONTRAILS ARE DANGEROUS,,

Do you mean chemtrailers would be on that case??

How could these possibly get so much love from such a weird crowd ?? We want to know.

What love?? What weird crowd??

Originally posted by TheSparrowSings
reply to post by stumason

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I understand the science behind contrail formation and I do understand how atmospheric conditions can contribute to their persistence. It must be getting pretty cold up there in the sky this time of the year

It is always freezing cold up there at any time of year, that's how contrails form when the water vapour freezes into ice crystals, even for short trails and even on hot days for us on the grounds.

reply to post by TheSparrowSings

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And anyone else interested

If you have a smartphone or tablet with a front facing camera you can download the flightradar24 App, this displays info like the website and is portable, but more than that, it has a feature where you can hold your phone camera up towards any plane you see in the sky and it will give you the data for it, very much like the iPads well publicised Star Walk app.

I've used it a few times when out and about cos I like gadgets but if you are concerned about trails this will let you identify the cause of them

reply to post by waynos

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Here you go this should be helpful...



But I don't expect many chemtrailers to use it as they are scared of the truth, because it goes against their beliefs.

reply to post by waynos

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I just happen to come across that neat little tool,but I don't expect the chemtrail believers to actually use something so easy as it would go against everything they think they know.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

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That's so true but at least they have no excuse, here's what the app looks like on screen

reply to post by waynos

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Thanks, I am downloading it now, this should be fun to use

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by waynos

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I just happen to come across that neat little tool,but I don't expect the chemtrail believers to actually use something so easy as it would go against everything they think they know.

G Edward Griffin does encourage them to use it - www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by waynos

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It is always freezing cold up there at any time of year, that's how contrails form when the water vapour freezes into ice crystals, even for short trails and even on hot days for us on the grounds.

If this where the case then I would think you would see them at the same altitude, every single day, persisting for hours and hours to form clouds, in the abundance they are in the OP's picture. Yes, of course it is cold up there every day but the temperature fluctuates, does it not?

reply to post by TheSparrowSings

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It does, but at the sort of altitudes where contrails form, which is around 25,000ft and higher, it is about -20/-30 all the time. Aircraft flying at those heights will always form a trail, every single time.

The real variant is relative humidity, a high enough RH will mean the air is holding as much water as it can and so the trail cannot do anything except hang around until that condition is no longer present, which can be hours. At other times, with lower RH values the moisture sublimates and the trail disappears, sometimes very quickly indeed and all you can see is a short dart of a trail such as in the screenshot above. When you see a jet leaving no trail at all, then it is invariably lower down, even if you think otherwise and the fr24 app has demonstrated that to me time and time again. It is a combination of temperature and RH that determines what the trails do and that's why trails can look so different not just from day to day, but even in different parts of the sky.

Originally posted by TheSparrowSings
reply to post by waynos

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It is always freezing cold up there at any time of year, that's how contrails form when the water vapour freezes into ice crystals, even for short trails and even on hot days for us on the grounds.

If this where the case then I would think you would see them at the same altitude, every single day, persisting for hours and hours to form clouds, in the abundance they are in the OP's picture. Yes, of course it is cold up there every day but the temperature fluctuates, does it not?

Temperature is not the main issue - it is always cold enough "up there" for ice to form - whether it is -35 deg or -45 deg does not make a lot of difference to that.

What does make the major difference is the humidity - it can be 10% or 90% only a few metres apart (relatively speaking)

reply to post by waynos

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Thanks for the information and reply.

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