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The Politics of Rape

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posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Perhaps I'm biased on this topic, and can't express myself very well. You see, I survived a violent and sustained rape. I agree, there are probably worse things that can happen to a person but if you look at probability, a woman is more likely to be raped than the victim of some heinous serial killer or even have a family member murdered.

I'm not sure why my use if the word equal is problematic, but I would like to clarify something. While I do want the same rights and privileges of my male counterparts, I do not believe I am superior to them. Nor do I subscribe to the notion that one sex is "better" than the other. Not sure if that makes me a feminist or not, but I don't consider myself one.

As to the politics of rape, I believe there are polar viewpoints and perhaps that's where the problem lies. To be honest, I don't know.

And this is where I bow out of the thread, my friends. I simply don't want to argue over rape again.




posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Apologies for the situation you encountered. Clearly you've been strong enough to pick yourself up and move on with your life
.

As for your views, that would make you an Egalitarian. Another tool used by radical feminism is to make moderates sympathetic to their idealogy by twisted the meaning of words.

~Tenth



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 



Originally posted by Dark Ghost
It's strange that you initially claimed it is not a politically-motivated crime, and then you go on to post such a response.


What I mean is that the individual man doesn't rape for political reasons. However, the cover-ups, blaming the victim and excuses made for men who rape ("that's just the way men are... they have needs they can't control... it's because of the way women dress...") tend to lessen the perceived severity of the crime. And that DOES have political motivation, I believe.

I find most men are actually VERY threatened by women taking an equal role in running this country. So, politically, it's best if they don't let women have too much power.

I was raped when I was approx. 18, by the father of a friend. It wasn't date rape and I had just met the man. Nearly 40 years later, I have not fully recovered, and don't really expect to, especially because of the specific circumstances of the rape.

I will remove myself from this discussion now, as I am very uncomfortable with some of the statements and ideas put forth here.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by cartenz
 


I think the problem is the author uses the words "Feminism" & "Radical Feminism" interchangeably at times, when really it is Radical Feminism itself that is being addressed. I agree this is a mistake as not all Feminists can be lumped together under a single banner.

Noted, But I dont think the symantecs of "feminism" v "radical feminism" are really pivotal to the argument.



I did foresee members bringing up the issue of other articles on the website, which I should state I do not necessarily agree with. Please let us focus on this article and its merits instead of attacking the messenger. Too often the messenger is highlighted and the content overlooked.


Fair enough, I will focus on the linked article. The article you linked was not published in an academic journal, just on her own website. Thats ok, but she does present the commentary in such a way that a reader unfamiliar with academic writing may misinterpret it as a legitimate piece of research; When the actuality is that it has not be subject to peer review, nor would it pass.

I might also add that the article, tho does include a bibliography, it only cites a handful of sources (5 or so)--one of which was a source the author was trying to refute. An article of that length, written by someone claiming to be at a Phd level, would include more references that would actually support the argument.

The article you linked is BUNK.

Now can I address her other works? I think it does add to the picture of the type of person we are dealing with.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


I thank you for having the courage to come into the thread and discuss the topic. I am very sorry to hear what happened and hope you have been able to overcome the trauma and hardship of your awful experience. I wish you well and hope you can experience peace and happiness.

I think the word "equal" is problematic because it implies "the same". While men and women deserve the same rights and freedoms, they certainly are not the same. There are major biological, psychological and physiological differences between us that we need to acknowledge and respect. In many situations, men and women are definitely from different planets.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


I think the word "equal" is problematic because it implies "the same". While men and women deserve the same rights and freedoms, they certainly are not the same. There are major biological, psychological and physiological differences between us that we need to acknowledge and respect. In many situations, men and women are definitely from different planets.


Your interpretation of equal is not how "equity" works. Equal in mathematics is not that same as in law. Substantive Equity means treating people different to treat them the same. An example is wheelchair ramps at public buildings, without being substantive; by treating everyone mathematically equal, you would effectively be saying to the mobility impaired to use the stairs like everyone else.

Do you get what Im trying to put accross?



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by cartenz
 


I understand the analogy, but I do not grasp the point you are making in relation to the topic. Could you please simplify your reply?



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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As to academic credentials:


Dr. Trayce L. Hansen is a licensed psychologist with a clinical and forensic practice. She received her Ph.D. from the California School of Professional Psychology, San Diego, in 1997. Dr. Hansen’s professional experience is varied and includes work in multiple clinical as well as forensic settings. She is particularly interested in issues related to marriage, parenting, male / female differences, and homosexuality. Dr. Hansen has extensively reviewed the research literature in these areas and occasionally writes commentaries based on her findings that have been published worldwide. She has been heard on local and national radio and interviewed by the web and print media. Dr. Hansen also consults on legal cases and has testified in both deposition and court hearings related to her professional expertise.


Since she does not state where (or what subject) she did her undergrad studies in, we only have the Californian School of Professional Psychology to go by. The school is part of Alliant International University--whats known as a "shop-front" university (it makes going to a "red-brick" institution look extremely prestigious :lol
. They cant even register their own .edu top-level domain (because they are not an accredited research institution... funny that)..
www.alliant.edu...

Should I go on, or are you still going to stand by this psudo-psyc BS and continue offending the sensibilities of those of us living in a civilized and egalitarian world.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by cartenz
 


Oh, I see. The content of the article is too difficult to refute so you need to resort to attacking the credibility of the author? You would do well to focus on the content of the article and not the messenger.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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When i first met my girlfriend ten years ago we watched a film or seen a program that involved something about rape and she said its scary to even think about that and the situation. I said to her one bit of advice that she still mentions today and I have told other women, If your being attacked and you are feeling as you was gonna be raped simply stay calm and utter these words, dont rape me I am H.I.V positive or I have Aids. I know this sounds stupid and its not a moral thing to do but who cares much for morals when your being attacked right? but it would make the attacker definitely think twice about the situation, either stopping him in his tracks for a moment of thought for you to react quicker and that split second could be vital or he could simply think F**k that then and run off, or it could just lead to being robbed or beaten so many possibilities. But to her she said at least theres that chance of that split second rather than not have that option, I dont know to her and other people i have spoke to say it seem's logical and its a sound idea. Maybe I dont know



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


The credibility of the author has a great bearing on the validity of the "research" presented in the commentary. Someone who misrepresents themselves as a legitimate researcher should be exposed for the fraud they are--and their subsequent works should be held to the proper scrutiny they deserve.

I dont need to discredit the original article any further as it falls down on its own merits.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by cartenz
 


I think the problem is the author uses the words "Feminism" & "Radical Feminism" interchangeably at times, when really it is Radical Feminism itself that is being addressed. I agree this is a mistake as not all Feminists can be lumped together under a single banner.

I did foresee members bringing up the issue of other articles on the website, which I should state I do not necessarily agree with. Please let us focus on this article and its merits instead of attacking the messenger. Too often the messenger is highlighted and the content overlooked.


I'd agree with that point - 'Feminism' encompasses a pretty broad range.

However, can't help but wonder whether both 'abortion rights' and 'politicization' of rape (and overly-expanding the concepts to 'date rape') distracted from what was once front and center: economic equality.

Women over all are still paid less than men and low-skill female dominated occupations pay a hell of a lot less than the male ones do. Until women can be completely economically liberated they are more prone to end up in abusive relationships and vulnerable positions in general.

However I get tired of seeing it as a black-and-white issue. It is not. Human relations are extremely complicated and some people concern themselves more with being right than with understanding things.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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Seems this "Doctor" Hansen is making friends left right and center

Exhibit A: Criticism from a Priest blogger


Why am I even bothering to talk about this hack? Because she is exhibiting behavior common to some Americans who wish to claim they are in the majority. Go to msnbc.com and read some of the comments on the “What do You Think?” section. You can find the Trayce Hansen’s of the world there, too. They spout hateful, racist, bigoted messages, and have screen names like, “I_LOVE_AMERICA,” or “GOD_BLESS_OUR_TROOPS.” Implying, of course, if you disagree with their hatemongering, then you must hate America, and you must hope that God does not bless our troops. Dr. Hansen might have found a school willing to sell her a PhD, but it only makes her a slightly more highbrow “AMERICA_RULZ!”

godscrazy.blogspot.com.au...

I really should be researching other things, but you have motivated me to look futher into this persons misrepresentation of them self as an academic. I really like exposing the hate-machine for what it is.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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I thought Id start today off with a cup of tea and a link to EquityMatters.org, seems they have heard of this "Doctor" Hansen also:


This kind of anti-gay propaganda should be expected coming from Dr. Hansen. She’s a member of the American College of Pediatricians, a right-wing, anti-gay organization notorious for misrepresenting and misusing research to demonize LGBT people. In 2009, she testified in defense of an “ex-lesbian” who was trying to deny her former partner access to their children, but her testimony was roundly dismissed for being unqualified


equalitymatters.org...

Any more "research" from the hate machine you would like debunked? Did you really think Ms Hansen's work would pass scrutiny from the ATS community? If the answer to that is 'yes', then you are insulting all of us.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by cartenz
 


Unfortunately for you, the article linked in the OP has nothing to do with the topic of LGBT. If you had bothered to read earlier replies in the thread you would know I already stated I do not endorse the views of the author on other topics on the site, but rather her views on this specific article. Stop trying to derail the thread with your relentless attack on the messenger.

You remind me of people who claim that "you can't trust anything from the MSM!" then use MSM sources to back up their claims as irrefutable proof of something.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


I have read this thread, every post. I addressed the linked article in an earlier post (which you ignored since it challenged your position) and then I found that the author fraudulently labels them-self as a PHd; so I thought it is important to the debate that this information is known.

limiting the discussion to the linked article, without taking it in the context in which it sits in the scheme of academic publications is a very narrow minded approach and will only produce a weighted discourse.

But hey, its your thread



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Ahhhh, let's blame the feminists for changing the way we view rape.

I'm not an expert on feminism by any means. I just know that as a woman, I want to be recognized as a full equal to a man, with the same rights and privileges.

What is the most heinous crime forced on a majority of women? Rape. So it would make sense that as women gain in power, they would bring rape concerns to the forefront. I guess that's the politics of rape referred to in the article.

My question...does categorizing rape as a "political" crime somehow make it less heinous? Is it an attempt to downplay the seriousness of the crime? Or even, dare I say, an attempt to make the woman share the burden of responsibility?


Thank you for getting right to the point in this, Starred. That's the best response so far to this thread's premise.

I hope someone posts it on every page this might generate.
edit on 8-9-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by inverslyproportional
 



What's wrong with modesty? It is still to this day the norm, for over 90% of the worlds populous, for a reason, as they understand that, out of sight out of mind.


Did you happen perchance to catch the muslim preacher asking Toronto to make women wear burqas or cover up, and the Moderate Muslim journalist who cited statistics in the middle east to show the countries where women were covered in these ugly death shrouds had horrifically huge sexual assualt stats?

I not only caught that whole story, but understand why.

Do you need to have it explained.

Countries where the population is au natural, have the lowest rape statistics, they're not perv's at all, and they don't disrespect women.

Control and hatred of equality and women is exactly behind the burqas and the dress code and trying to cover them up.

Men who are expected to look in someone's eyes no matter how they're dressed are getting some damn good training.

Women can dress how they want and men who are a problem need some intensive jail time and /or counseling and house arrest.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 

DG, thanks for sharing. i could agree with some but not all.
imho, Brownmiller's quote would be honest, appropriate and complete IF it read ...

The back cover of Brownmiller’s feminist tome boldly states “it {rape} is not just a crime of lust but of violence and power.”
emphasis+addition are mine
it's amazing what effect one little word has (just), isn't it ??

reading through your commentary, i find this rather offensive, especially from one who is not personally familiar or experienced with rape.

It is this idea that "rape is the most heinousness crime imaginable" that has been drummed into your head that is the problem.
unless you've been there, who are you to question this sentiment ?
it is a level of intrusion and physical abuse unlike any other, regardless if it is happening to woman or man.


How about unjustly murdering an immediate relative of a person? Wouldn't that leave one more emotionally scarred than rape?
as horrific as such an experience would be, NO, the two are not comparable.
scars are scars, is it necessary for one to be deeper than another ??
those two events don't even provoke similar emotions, not during the grieving process, the recovery process or the eventual ability to move-on.

the political aspirations of the feminism movement are its biggest folly.
equality is one thing ... what the feminists desire is something totally different.
edit on 8-9-2012 by Honor93 because: typo



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks
 



Rape of woman in tribal cultures where the woman may be naked or semi-naked in also just as common


This is a lot less common as matter of fact, stats they used to publish a great deal in the papers. Seems its something other than dress code. It has to do with attitude and misogny.





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