As a thinking man, I don't blame Obama or Bush for the bad economy, I cannot say Romney will do muc

The fact of the matter is the one individual who has the most power to influence the economy is NOT THE PRESIDENT! It is the Federal Reserve Chairman. I blame Greenspan and Bernacke for getting us in this mess.

Back in the mid 2000's Greenspan saw the housing bubble forming and even said there was "irrational exuberance" in the housing market. He could have put the breaks on the housing market by raising interest rates, at least for a short term, so capital would be diverted to more productive uses rather than junk bonds and real estate speculation. Instead, Greenspan let the bubble grow and grow until it popped.

Bernacke was no hero either. He is keeping interest rates very low to save the precious housing market because home prices are some precious sacred cow. This is leading to inflation because he is just printing up a bunch of money. He is also stalling growth because banks are no longer loaning to people. For an economy to grow, it needs capital. Businesses need to be able to walk into banks and get some cash. Unfortunately, because banks can borrow money for free then use that money to buy T-bills, the are opting to buy T-bills rather than invest in businesses.

Could Bush, Obama, or Romney do more to solve to help the problem? Perhaps. But the real problem lies with an inept Fed that has its priorities all out of wack.

I would agree with you to some extent, however ruling out that Bush did not play a big factor in job losses when he signed into shipping and outsourcing jobs over to other countrys pretty much open the the doors to the down fall of jobs here within the US. Not to mention that most of what we buy is not made here in US any longer.

Simple math... if every American was to buy one item of anything that is made in the US/grown or otherwise, this would put the demand for more labor... hence jobs... however we no longer consider that when buying.
We are dependent on only a few Gems that are left to serve the world...

But when we put or allow a few men to control the many... the results are now the outcome we have to live with.

Jesse

I failed to mention those Bills that were sign... NAFTA, AFTA .. pretty much change what we have today... of course otherthings that were allowed to happen. America first is no longer a concept.

If you want a Bridge built... today that labor comes from overseas effort.. What the hell happen there?

Priorities as Ass backwards where we ae concern(US)... Meanwhile we are left with watching it happen.
The view from where I stand is grim for the man that wishes to give what he can!

If there is going to be a Contract signed.... Know the real outcome.

America.. First!

I regret Ron was not on the platform. I really like that guy.

Jesse

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
The fact of the matter is the one individual who has the most power to influence the economy is NOT THE PRESIDENT! It is the Federal Reserve Chairman. I blame Greenspan and Bernacke for getting us in this mess.

I agree ! The elephant in the room is Both Greenspan and Ben have the right of return. I do not believe their primary allegiance is to America. I also found it difficult to believe Michael Chertoff , also with the right of return was chosen to head DHS. It is very difficult to deny that 2+2 does in fact = 4 . Additionally do not dare pull the Anti-Sem Card. my wife is Jewish.

reply to post by jessemole


You can't just hold Bush to blame for that. Clinton was the one that signed NAFTA and was largely responsible for China getting most favored trade status. NAFTA wasn't even all that horrible and actually helped a great deal in raising Mexico up. A large part of our border problems started when companies that moved manufacturing to Mexico up and left in favor of China decimating border towns that are now battlefields in the war on drugs.

Greenspan is a perfect example of what is wrong with conservatism. He is a lifelong devotee of Ayn Rand and all of his policies reflect that ideology. The man saw the problems coming and chose to ignore them so that those with the money kept making money. But the economy at that point needed the housing bubble to stay afloat because it was the only thing producing new jobs consistently.

Why didn't Obama replace Bernanke? I heard alot of groans when he decided to keep him. Bad decision IMO. So yeah, I blame Obama for no change when that is what he campaigned on.




.

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
reply to post by jessemole

 

Greenspan is a perfect example of what is wrong with conservatism. He is a lifelong devotee of Ayn Rand and all of his policies reflect that ideology. The man saw the problems coming and chose to ignore them so that those with the money kept making money. But the economy at that point needed the housing bubble to stay afloat because it was the only thing producing new jobs consistently.

you just contradicted yourself in one little paragraph.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


There is truth in your points.

Presidents are only victims of the circumstances that they had inherited and find ways out of the situation, often unpopular or time consuming that lead to citizenry impatience for immediate cures.

Bankers and the many of the rich with OBSCENE amounts of cash are the bane of our world's mess.

Do not get me wrong, I do admire their often struggles, espacically the first generation whom had succeeded, but with excessive greed comes excessive corruption of the mind, to protect, maintain and project their wealth upon the rest of humanity.

At it's basic core, the fed is made up of private individuals whom have excessive cash, had initially sought to find returns for their savings by offering loans. Overtime, it is no more than a loan shark enterprise, offering and even directing where funds can be spent with total disregard to human lives and civilisation. Money was pushed out to ensure returns.

As such, with excessive funds, inflation, greed and speculation occured from those secondary few up on the ladder of wealth to become like the original group, and thus the crisis today since 08.

But in all honesty, they had learnt much from the sobering disasters of 08, and realized that mistakes had been made, and tried to correct it by offering low or even no interest funds to central banks in return for stability.

It is too late and not enough being done by that group. More can and needs to be done today and for future stability.

May they realize that we humans came with nothing and will leave with nothing anyway, except our deeds remembered with fondness for the good we do, or spat upon by generations for the harm we had done.

Why do people keep referring to the signing of NAFTA and China in the same dialogue?

NAFTA = North American Free Trade Agreement.

China isn't part of, or partial to, any of the articles of NAFTA.

reply to post by eLPresidente


No not really, perhaps i just wasn't clear enough. They chose to not do anything at all about the housing bubble. The reason they chose not to was it was the only thing keeping the economy propped up during the election year. He had a choice in the matter and chose to ignore it because if he had taken the steps required to correct it Bush couldn't get reelected.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


You are right about Carter signing that agreement, they probably bribed him with a cute young Chinese woman. Just kidding I think. Greenspan knew the Economy was bad and admitted that he knew. He said everyone was saying it would work and it looked like it was so he kept the ball rolling. It flopped and it isn't finished yet. They haven't done much at all to fix it the right way. It's got patches on top of patches and noone really knows what to do about it. Are these people who said this will work still working for the government? Probably.

reply to post by rickymouse


None of them want to face the pain to fix it. Whichever party does fix it is going to be hated by the public if they do, and they know that they will not be allowed to finish fixing it before they are elected out again. The other one will get in power and take all the credit because Americans have a short attention span and poor reasoning skills.

Speaking of NAFTA...

...what was it that Ross Perot said many years ago when he was running? Oh yea, something to the effect of a giant sucking sound of our jobs leaving if NAFTA was passed? Both Republicans and Democrats were IN FAVOR of it. Ross, was NOT.

And now here another REAL TRUE & DECENT AMERICAN man named Ron Paul was running and STUPID Americans overlook him and will go and put another TYPICAL elephant or jackass turd TRAITOR in office. I GUARANTEE 10 years from now, all that "crazy" stuff that "the crazy old man" Ron Paul warned us about will come TRUE just like those "crazy" Ross Perot warnings.


Expect another TYPICAL ELEPHANT or JACKASS traitor to further screw up the country!! The majority of folks are just brain-dead and unfortunately, the rest of us have to suffer for their STUPIDITY! What else is new. People clearly will NEVER LEARN!!!

Damn stupid brain-dead population!!

reply to post by dazbog


I won't play the anti-semitism card, I will play the "you don't make sense" card.

Israel is highly dependent on the US for everything. If the US goes down, so does Israel. It does not make sense somebody would allow the US to tank because they would have safe refuge in Israel. It is like letting 99 floors of a 100 story building burn to the ground because you have a place on the one floor that has not caught fire (yet).

reply to post by KeliOnyx


Free trade leads to growth. It may lead to some short-run upheavals, but in the long run everybody is better off. The problem lies in how a society manages free trade. For free trade to work for everyone, displaced workers need to be retrained. That way, everyone in society will not only have cheaper goods, but they will also have a good pay check to buy the cheaper gods.

No president is completely a victim, it is true that they probably know nothing about economics, but they still appoint most of the influential members of the FED.


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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Depends who you are trading freely with. You don't hear people saying Britain and Germany took their jobs. Because they have an equal standard of living. You can trade with them freely and not slash your own wrist doing it. Free trade with third world countries to exploit cheap layer is asking for economic decline and it is exactly what we have done. Now we are stuck with artificial and unsustainable growth and everyone is hurting. There will never ever be enough service sector jobs that pay enough to live off of to replace the solid manufacturing jobs we had.


And the good were never more than marginally cheaper. The price points never came down those manufacturing offshore pocketed the difference.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


The problem is we have not done enough to elevate the individuals who make up our "cheap labor" force. A guy with a mop who needs over $8 an hour to live in the USA cannot compete against a guy with a mop who will take $2 a day in some undeveloped country. However, a guy with a marketable skill set who makes $60,000 a year in the USA is not in competition with the guy who makes $2 a day in some undeveloped country.

We need a better educational system that will churn out more people with more marketable skill sets that will not need to compete with cheap third world labor. As a country, we still have the resources to do this. Unfortunately, our political system is failing our educational system. Liberals side with teachers' unions who protect bad teachers. Conservatives do not want to invest in education because educated voters tend to side with Liberals.