Canadian Healthcare questions

When My wife and I had our daughter, I was making $7.50 an hr. She was going to school, so we qualified for medicade. Thank God for that. When my daughter was born, she tried to take her first breath before she came out. She spent a week in the NICU before she came home. My wife and I even spent new years eve in the hospital (My daughter was born on Dec 29, 1998). It was a hard time. When we got the bill, we were floored. We didnt have to pay a cent, but the bill still showed what Medicade was being charged. $189,253.72 !!! Almost two hundred thousand dollars! Now, my wife is out of school and does very well.

Its my turn for school now, so things are still tight, but now, with what my wife makes, we dont qualify for medicade anymore. Her job offers insurance, But its almost $800 dollars a month for a family. Thats about 1/3 of her check. We cant afford to have it.

I know that when I get out of school and get things going, healthcare wont be much of an issue for me. But it is now, and will continue to be for millions of other parents who dont have the opportunities I have been given.

My worry is more for my fellow Americans then for myself. I mean, even if we had a healthcare plan, we would hardley ever use it barring major accidents. My family has been blessed with an increadible immune system, and I have yet to go to a doctor for much. I see my family practitioner for checkups once a year. Just a physical. It cost me out of pocket over $300 dollars. Thats not to say that I dont get sick, but rather I dont have to take antibiotics to get better. Ive even beat strep throat

I have a very keen interest in this thread and have read the majority of threads here. There is some inaccurate information that has been posted from both sides of the argument.

I work at Health Canada, in the Health Human resource Strategies Division on the Physicians file. Feel free to look over some of the current work we are conducting at www.hc-sc.gc.ca...

First, while many people feel that many of our trained doctors are leaving Canada to practice in the US that is simply not true. When you take into account the number of physicians who repatriate to our country each year, new immigrants (including American physicians moving north) we actually run a very, very small deficit. If you couple that with the increases in the number of medical graduates in Canada over the past 3-4 years you can see that for the past three years the number of new doctors introduced into the system is increasing steadily. That said, we still, like the US and most other developed countries, have a shortage of physicians, nurses and various other health professionals. It is estimated by the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada (www.AFMC.ca) that in order to maintain our current doctor patient ratio of 1.9:1000 that medical school enrolment will need to increase to approximately 2500 annually by 2007. That is an increase of 500 seats�attainable, but it will certainly be a stretch, not only financially, but also within the University infrastructure also.

Canada�s system does have problems; I don�t think that was ever a point of contention. However, when you�re dealing with political policy you need to look at what policies will provide the greatest benefit for the majority of citizens. Clearly, more citizens� benefit from having a subsidized health care system than benefit from a pay as you go plan. Sure, our taxes are significantly higher, but our population receives excellent medical care for the most part.

In Canada we also have several unique challenges that Americans do not face. Specifically, we deal with a population distribution that is very hard to cover given the mass of our country and the relative remoteness of many communities. This is an ongoing problem that will require a complex solution.

Finally, to the poster who provided examples of waiting lists provided difficulty for individual patients that he/she knows. It is inconceivable to think that 1. all patients will be satisfied with the care they receive; 2. that our system is perfect; 3. that there are not hundreds of thousands of similar examples which exist in the US.

All of the above taken into consideration, I would gladly pay the tax required for a subsidized health system than to cripple my family with hospital bills in the event of a medical emergency. It certainly seems like a lot of unnecessary stress, especially when it involves something as important as health.

Lukefj


[edit on 21-10-2004 by Lukefj]

Blanketgirl:

They didn't trust their healthcare system so they all came here for our doctors and hospitals- where would the thousands of people who flee to SE Michigan go for healthcare if we had a federal system?!?
Every time someone was pregant, broke something, needed surgery, was sick they all came to the US to get good doctors!

I would venture to say that a house of 20 people unless it is a mansion, is a house of people with mediocre to modest means, and therefore, those Canadians you claim go to Michigan for anything including pregnancies (whether birthing or checkups) will have to pay the costs entirely out of pocket unless the visits were authorized by the health ministry. Now I happen to know that your physician and hospital costs are very expensive because I have family members scattered throughout the states. If a Canadian ventures over to Michigan to give birth, then they do themselves an injustice since the downtown Toronto hospitals are among the world�s premiere healthcare facilities for neo-natal care, in fact, the world renowned Hospital for Sick Children, does find itself with patients from all across the globe, including the USA.

I would sure as hell rather pay a few dollars even every month to keep them off my back rather than having my taxes upped 20%

That is where you make no sense. In a later post you state:

Now for good insurance on my daughter and me, it would be about $700/month.

That $8,400 a year using your 20% rate would equate to an income of $42,000. Now if that same $8,400 is not costing you at least 20% of your income, consider how lucky you are compared to the millions in the US who make less than $30,000/annum, when that same $8,400 would equate to 28% of their income. Your mindset objects to your taxes going to healthcare, simply because you don�t like to be taxed, so you would rather pay that kind of money as a premium just to get away from the tax label.

Compare that to what those same Ontarians (I presume) would pay then. Using that $42,000 income next year: Max. of $450.00 Ont. health tax for the year. To purchase extended health coverage for a family which covers anything from prescription glasses to drugs to private room to emergency services outside of Canada, they might pay a maximum of $100/month. That is a total of $1,650 for an entire year or 3.92% of income. On that same income not considering deductions, an Ontarian will pay a maximum of 31.15% in income taxes, which as you know covers all government spending.

Here is the best part of all, unless a Canadian is self employed or works for a small firm, that extended coverage is usually paid for by the employer, and if a Canadian does pay for it, it becomes a tax deduction. So where do you get the 20% and which is better, your $8,400 or the $1,650?

Lukef: Good post, especially regarding the doctor situation, which the government is hoping to correct with the new schooling plans.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
which is better, your $8,400 or the $1,650?

Lukef: Good post, especially regarding the doctor situation, which the government is hoping to correct with the new schooling plans.

Good post to both of you The more I about Canada's health care, the more I want ours to use yours as a model. There would be a tax increase, but in my opinion, it would be worth it. It would help tremendusly if we could cut back on our military spending, say 25-30% and use this as a boost for the first few years. I see so many possibly ways to impliment this into our society for the benifit of every one. I just hope it happens. Who knows, maybe I will set up shop in Ottowa if it doesnt

You are taking part of that completely out of context- with paying a few dollars a month- I am referring to the fact that if you don't have insurance you can work out deals with hospitals and doctors and as long as they are receiving SOME payment (can be $1/month if you want) they can't do anything to collect from you. I know multiple people who are currenly using this to their advantage, so I know it works.

Even when it works out for those who are making less money, it still
1) isn't fair that people making more money have to pay for everybody else
2)creates a huge issue with how inefficient it will make the health industry.

When you are spending your own money, you will be careful and look for good deals- when the government is spending your money they don't care, they will just pay for things and demand more when they run out.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

I would sure as hell rather pay a few dollars even every month to keep them off my back rather than having my taxes upped 20%

That is where you make no sense. In a later post you state:

Now for good insurance on my daughter and me, it would be about $700/month.

I would be interested in seeing your data on the disparity in efficiency between your un-subsidized American health care system and the Canadian system. Personally I doubt that it exists and if it does I am certain that the disparity is laughable at best. Please do your research before you post such claims.

As far as "fairness" goes, the rich do not necessarily pay more. While it is true they are taxed at a higher rate, anyone with money knows that the more money you make the better you get at transferring it from your income column so that it isn't taxed heavily. In the end I'm quite certain that nobody is done an injustice by being taxed not only to support our subsidized health care, but also all of our other wonderful social programs that only the elite can afford in the US.

Lukefj

[edit on 22-10-2004 by Lukefj]

At least, if I brake my arm in an accident, I won't have to pay couple of thousand dollars, I get in hospital with my "Little insurance card". Same when i got to the clinic for anything!
At least the poor are not penalized like in the U.S...poors get sick and that's it...

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx




[edit on 22/10/04 by Amelia]