" Climate Change Is Not A Hoax", says Obama!!??

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posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by bobs_uruncle
reply to post by MamaJ
 

We probably do contribute to changes in the environment, obviously we have cities, concrete, hot bodies creating 500 btu each and additional energy input practically everywhere you look. But our damage level is probably less than 1% of 1% of what the Sun, transit through the spiral arm or the thermal conductivity increase through a mildly dispersed nebula would cause. To think as a species that we have the capaibility to control or effect much larger energy systems at this point in our socially immature development is ridiculous and extremely egocentric. What will happen, will happen and I am fine with that, if we are meant to go extinct we will, if not, we won't. We already screwed with mother nature a bit, let's not add more interference and really piss off the system.

Cheers - Dave


I understand what you are saying.... I really do.

It's the Presidents and congress job to see to it that life is had on this planet. It's a priority or damn well should be moreso than anything else!!!! Economy is important but without life.... There is no economy.

He admitted it. That I'm happy to hear even if it was all bs.... He said it. It's out here.... It's out in the world for people to ponder now and that in and of itself is a start. It's a start.

Hitting people where it hurts by raising gas prices and taxing carbon may just make people look for other alternative means. Maybe, just maybe we as a people can come up with our own personal solutions and not have to be taxed. I don't know what the overall solution is, I wish I did.

Speaking of the system..... We are all apart of this system and even have dominion some would say over said systems..... All of them!!! We live in a Universe!!!! Lol

Every cause... Every action..... We are responsible for making the world turn!!! We are more powerful than the world lets on. We have been so dumbed down its not even funny, but I won't go there.... This thread is not meant to now argue over whether or not we are spiritual beings having a material experience. I feel as though I could make ones head spin with information that has been thought of, but not in abundance.

We as people can change the course of an ELE.

I realize there are people who could care less about our species, but I don't lay down like that. I want to fight!


If you want to fight, then fight to change the system. The governments/politicians and bankers and/or their handlers have created this system of wanton consumerism and ecological disregard. They and they alone have bought and paid for the NON-USE of every energy conserving device in the history of mankind. Until the system changes and the law of "he who dies with the most toys or power or money, wins" then we will be stuck in this loop of excessive frivolity. The system is broken and is patently stupid, and you just can't fix stupid.

So unless you are prepared to stand up and tell the governments, bankers and military/industrial complex that you've had enough alongside a large majority of the population, all of your pissing in the wind will just get you wet and make you smell like urine.

I have fought for what I believe in, I have injunctions against me for whistle blowing on huge public funds/tax frauds involving government ministers and the educational system. I drew my line in the sand on involvement in arms deals ages ago and for my trouble I've been shot, stabbed, had four attempts on my life and the intelligence community have files on me, that even I am not able to see (national security reasons according to the letter) and they are my files, about me. So, how far you prepared to go for what you allege to believe in? If you are going to talk the talk, be prepared to walk the walk, you can't just whine about it.

Obama is a useless tit and rather simple mouthpiece puppet for the people creating all the problems. This is called controlled opposition and follows Hegel's theories, primarily the Hegelian Dialectic. The first thing to presume in all cases unless there is blatant scientific evidence to the countrary is that every time a politician opens its mouth or writes something down, IT IS A LIE. I could tell you all about politicians, ministers, ambassadors and a crapload of nasty business, but this thread isn't about that. The thread is about some @sshat politican opening his gaping pie hole to let some candy coated feces drop out on the floor so he can get himself re-elected and do even more damage. Call me a cynic ;-)

Cheers - Dave
edit on 9/9.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


ATS Global extinction

Politics is what everyone is caught up at the moment but the most important issue is our continued existence. Please take a look at this ATS thread I started the other day it is based on a report I posted here a few days ago.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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Climate change isn't a hoax. It's been happening for the last 12,000 years (actually longer). Which isn't being taken into account with these studies. There's been 4 or 5 Ice Ages in the last 400,000 years. And we don't know what happened before that since back then the ice caps had melted completely and there isn't evidence in the ice cores. The opposite of an Ice Age is a Warm Age. Don't worry though, when the climate starts to shift back towards the cold, someone will try to blame it on us.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


ATS Global extinction

Politics is what everyone is caught up at the moment but the most important issue is our continued existence. Please take a look at this ATS thread I started the other day it is based on a report I posted here a few days ago.


I looked at the thread you started. It is interesting and yes, if this was an event purely caused by humans, sure, we might be able to turn things around. But here's the rub(s)... three problems, the first is there are three concurrent events we have no control over, perihelion, solar max and of course solar system transport through a nebula. The second problem is that we have to deal with polution since the dawn of the industrial revolution. The third problem is time. If this had been recognized at the time of the Carrington Event or even maybe by the end of the 1st world war and we had the technology to reverese or forestall the process, technology would have a non-zero probability of rectifying the problems. Imagine what the technology might be like if we were 100 years advanced from now and we did not have a greed based society.

But that isn't the reality, anything we apply at this stage of the game will be too little too late. MamaJ would probably argue that we have try, that we have to make everyone on the planet suffer as much as humanly possible to turn this thing around. The politicians, corporations, international bankers, monarchs and dictators will of course consider themselves to be exempt because they're special, I would say short bus special. I disagree with the premise that this can be stopped through human intervention at this point, especially through some taxation scam that will simply put money in a bunch of @sshats pockets so that they can have a better life while the end approaches. Our "leaders" and their handlers, whether they be international bankers, politicians, monarchs, dictators or otherwise have placed us on this path. We as a species were too immature to recognize the political BS for what it was and still is, so we get what we deserve, it's that simple.

I would posit that we have less than one lifetime left. With the increases in volcanic and tectonic activity I expect enough crap to be thrown into the atmosphere over the next few years coupled with a Carrington-like event to literally stop 99% of all agriculture and shut down all technology on the planet. Once that happens, reactors will go critical and we'll have 10,000 times more radiation in the air, water and soil. So unless you know mechanics, metalurgy, chemistry, fluid dynamics, purification and filtering, motor/generator winding and rebuilding, survival techniques, medicine, dentistry, radiation removal techniques and indoor agriculture, the best you would have is a 50% chance of living out your life after the other 95% of the population died off through starvation, disease and abject violence.

The truly sad thing about all of this, is that people with lots of money will survive in their DUMBS and other underground bunkers, at least for a time, maybe long enough. Those people if they survive will produce a whole new series of the worst in people, sociopaths and psychopaths on which to build the next civilization. And then it will start all over again.

Oh, and someone on your thread said "If this were a movie..." ROFLMAO, I think it is, a rather advanced 4d movie. IMHO this is just another virtual reality and what we percieve as these meat suits we wear and every other aspect of what we consider reality is just the expression of interference patterns. We might simply be remote controlled biologically perceived vehicles for our "real" selves somewhere else. Maybe we exist within an advanced simulation program and whoever guides the program is trying to figure out why civilizations implode. Who knows, but what will be will be, if we can fix it we will, if we can't then we won't.

Personally, I believe the world will correct itself naturally or through self correcting algorithms as may be, it probably has 100's of times in the past. The time it takes to perform the correction is irrelevant, adapt or die is the general rule.

Cheers - Dave
edit on 9/9.2012 by bobs_uruncle because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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Ok hoax believers you've been had, plain and simple. Your heart is in the right place. I am professional environmental chemist and have read almost every word in this thread and I am saying the consensus is faked also.


There really isn't consensus and when the large list of qualified scientist speak out the media either totally ignores them or trots out our childhood expert, Bill Nye the science guy to say they are loonies. They USE Bill because we trusted him. Shame on Bill and shame on all believers for not having your radar up for money making hoaxes.

www.americanthinker.com...

climatedepot.com...
edit on 9-9-2012 by Justoneman because: needed more explanation.
edit on 9-9-2012 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)


And "Angels don't play this HAARP" is a good place to start understanding the stranger weather. All major countries are literally decades ahead of the tech we see on the ground as citizen on methods and also the science to do such things as manipulation of micro regional weathers. All you have to do is read the Chinese history about Bejing during the 08 Olympics. Don't think for a moment that they or any one else with superior tech are just sitting on it for the Olympics either.
edit on 9-9-2012 by Justoneman because:

In short the real science world has tech much more sophisticated than you can even imagine unless you are in one of the worlds powerful military organizations. I know i once served and saw things that are only available 25 years later. Imagine what they have they would not show the troops until it was a need to know reason.

(no reason given)
edit on 9-9-2012 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by Justoneman
 


Hahaha..... Yeah, we'll I'm sorry but I don't believe you.

You have offered two blogs, one stating fifty signatures were added.... Not a whole lot there, not to mentions its from 2009!!!!

The other link is another BLOG, with a petition with 160 signatures.....

That tells me this is not a hoax.... is right on the money, climate change is not debated in the scientific community. There are very few people who will deny it today!



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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Ah, ok! Everyone relax! We got an expert here and he's claiming everything is perfectly hunky-dory! I'm sure you have a buncha links to some peer reviewed papers proving that there is no correlation between co2 levels and global temperature! You must also have access to some papers showing the astronomical amounts of industrial pollutants we are pumping into our biosphere has no negative effects on our environment, amirite? You must also have some good natural causation of our current extinction level event, right? OBVIOUSLY the species heading toward extinction at this very moment have nothing to do with our exploitation of our environment.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Justoneman
 


I am glad other people are looking into this and I welcome any and all documintation that can be provided.
The list from NASA
1. /s/ Jack Barneburg, Jack - JSC, Space Shuttle Structures, Engineering Directorate, 34 years
2. /s/ Larry Bell - JSC, Mgr. Crew Systems Div., Engineering Directorate, 32 years
3. /s/ Dr. Donald Bogard - JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years
4. /s/ Jerry C. Bostick - JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 23 years
5. /s/ Dr. Phillip K. Chapman - JSC, Scientist - astronaut, 5 years
6. /s/ Michael F. Collins, JSC, Chief, Flight Design and Dynamics Division, MOD, 41 years
7. /s/ Dr. Kenneth Cox - JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years
8. /s/ Walter Cunningham - JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 7, 8 years
9. /s/ Dr. Donald M. Curry - JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years
10. /s/ Leroy Day - Hdq. Deputy Director, Space Shuttle Program, 19 years
11. /s/ Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. - JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years
12. /s/Charles F. Deiterich - JSC, Mgr., Flight Operations Integration, MOD, 30 years
13. /s/ Dr. Harold Doiron - JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years
14. /s/ Charles Duke - JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 16, 10 years
15. /s/ Anita Gale
16. /s/ Grace Germany - JSC, Program Analyst, 35 years
17. /s/ Ed Gibson - JSC, Astronaut Skylab 4, 14 years
18. /s/ Richard Gordon - JSC, Astronaut, Gemini Xi, Apollo 12, 9 years
19. /s/ Gerald C. Griffin - JSC, Apollo Flight Director, and Director of Johnson Space Center, 22 years
20. /s/ Thomas M. Grubbs - JSC, Chief, Aircraft Maintenance and Engineering Branch, 31 years
21. /s/ Thomas J. Harmon
22. /s/ David W. Heath - JSC, Reentry Specialist, MOD, 30 years
23. /s/ Miguel A. Hernandez, Jr. - JSC, Flight crew training and operations, 3 years
24. /s/ James R. Roundtree - JSC Branch Chief, 26 years
25. /s/ Enoch Jones - JSC, Mgr. SE&I, Shuttle Program Office, 26 years
26. /s/ Dr. Joseph Kerwin - JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years
27. /s/ Jack Knight - JSC, Chief, Advanced Operations and Development Division, MOD, 40 years
28. /s/ Dr. Christopher C. Kraft - JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years
29. /s/ Paul C. Kramer - JSC, Ass.t for Planning Aeroscience and Flight Mechanics Div., Egr. Dir., 34 years
30. /s/ Alex (Skip) Larsen
31. /s/ Dr. Lubert Leger - JSC, Ass't. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years
32. /s/ Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell - JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years
33. /s/ Donald K. McCutchen - JSC, Project Engineer - Space Shuttle and ISS Program Offices, 33 years
34. /s/ Thomas L. (Tom) Moser - Hdq. Dep. Assoc. Admin. & Director, Space Station Program, 28 years
35. /s/ Dr. George Mueller - Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years
36. /s/ Tom Ohesorge
37. /s/ James Peacock - JSC, Apollo and Shuttle Program Office, 21 years
38. /s/ Richard McFarland - JSC, Mgr. Motion Simulators, 28 years
39. /s/ Joseph E. Rogers - JSC, Chief, Structures and Dynamics Branch, Engr. Directorate, 40 years
40. /s/ Bernard J. Rosenbaum - JSC, Chief Engineer, Propulsion and Power Division, Engr. Dir., 48 years
41. /s/ Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt - JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years
42. /s/ Gerard C. Shows - JSC, Asst. Manager, Quality Assurance, 30 years
43. /s/ Kenneth Suit - JSC, Ass't Mgr., Systems Integration, Space Shuttle, 37 years
44. /s/ Robert F. Thompson - JSC, Program Manager, Space Shuttle, 44 years
45. /s/ Frank Van Renesselaer - Hdq., Mgr. Shuttle Solid Rocket Boosters, 15 years
46. /s/ Dr. James Visentine - JSC Materials Branch, Engineering Directorate, 30 years
47. /s/ Manfred (Dutch) von Ehrenfried - JSC, Flight Controller; Mercury, Gemini & Apollo, MOD, 10 years
48. /s/ George Weisskopf - JSC, Avionics Systems Division, Engineering Dir., 40 years
49. /s/ Al Worden - JSC, Astronaut, Apollo 15, 9 years
50. /s/ Thomas (Tom) Wysmuller - JSC, Meteorologist, 5 years

As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA's advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA's current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.



Read more: www.americanthinker.com...

Certainly these people are educated and there is even one Meteorologist among them that person would be the only one that would have any credentials among them that could be considered relevant. I did not find any papers that he has authored on the subject however. It would also help if these people were still working for NASA and not as it was stated in their petition all former employees wouldn’t you think.

The petition is from 2009 and it does not state climate change is a hoax but asked that unsupported or unproven documentation not be released. They as a group do not believe as it seems but are in no way in a position of knowledge to make a determination so I am sorry but this is nothing more than a petition from former employees with no factual evidence to back their claims. This is how they FEEL. This is not science.[
edit on 9-9-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by Justoneman
 


Hahaha..... Yeah, we'll I'm sorry but I don't believe you.

You have offered two blogs, one stating fifty signatures were added.... Not a whole lot there, not to mentions its from 2009!!!!

The other link is another BLOG, with a petition with 160 signatures.....



That tells me this is not a hoax.... is right on the money, climate change is not debated in the scientific community. There are very few people who will deny it today!


SO, someone gives you something to check out with real names and you dismiss it because the hoaxters did not share it with us?

No offense I have to make a living telling the truth in my area of data studies or I get fired.

Truly, it doesn't matter that you don't believe,since your not a professional scientist. IT does matter just where the true scientist are taken research (and their is a groundswell of climatologist against this madness your possibly afflicted with who put out papers).

Did you check out who is on the list?

Remember Dr. Gray who predicted Hurricanes. I recall before he was sent to pasture in the national news that he did not believe in Anthro either but you do even after NASA admitting to being wrong on Antarctic ice caps just to mention one. IT IS GEO-THERMAL energy from within this earth driven by the Solar changes that make our weather. Just look at how many volcano's are burping today that were asleep last century. One or two waking up but those and the growing strength of the Earthquakes is the clue if anybody is taking notes.That is the real story and you are free to believe in the hoax as far as I am concerned but THIS PARTICULAR SCIENTIST says IMHO that there is NO TRUE CONSENSUS. Especially with the numerous honest scientist onto this sham. IF the 50 PhD types at NASA who spoke out did not get you thinking then perhaps nothing will. You won't to believe the lie and damn any evidence that is out there to the contrary. I take data where it leads and our ability to heat up this rock is SOLAR driven, period. 1-2 C change they project will not ever keep us alive if we did not have the sun. Can't you see that? It is laughable to think we could live here without the heat coming from the sun or the geomagnetic affects.
edit on 9-9-2012 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-9-2012 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


Gosh, I don't even know where to quote you as your last two posts also represent the other side of my mind. The pessimist side. Lol

I'm not sure what is actually going on in our Solar System, that's a whole other debate within itself. I've educated myself on it but not sure who is giving the most accurate data. I lean more with the Metaphysical community I believe.

We have a lot going against us, that's for sure.

Neither President is " good" in my book and they all do in fact lie..... No doubt.

All the OP is saying is I'm glad he mentioned it, the fact he did surprised me!

I have children and so I don't want to make such a stench in the air that I'm killed or hunted down as you described, that would sure suck! Lol

Personally what I can do to help is what I'm prepared to do. I only have control over me and that's my fight, along with a voice.

Obama, as far as I know did indeed ask for a $! Load of data from scientists when he first got into office and whether or not it's a bs move is not for me to try and determine. Again, I'm glad he asked.

I'm one who doesn't even believe we REALLY AND TRULY have a vote, I don't think our vote counts.... I think whoever THEY choose is who will be our next president.

They are all bought and paid for.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by Syyth007
Ah, ok! Everyone relax! We got an expert here and he's claiming everything is perfectly hunky-dory! I'm sure you have a buncha links to some peer reviewed papers proving that there is no correlation between co2 levels and global temperature! You must also have access to some papers showing the astronomical amounts of industrial pollutants we are pumping into our biosphere has no negative effects on our environment, amirite? You must also have some good natural causation of our current extinction level event, right? OBVIOUSLY the species heading toward extinction at this very moment have nothing to do with our exploitation of our environment.



Well, I guess you don't care then. As far as your concerned you can't hear me? That is how these threads get so many pages. People like me trying to bring you the whole picture. If you ONLY WANT TO BELIEVE "bsnbc" and the lame stream paid shills, have at it. I tried to give you some choices.

"You can choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" " But I will choose free-will" (the band: Rush).



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by Justoneman
 


I'm not offended in any way and the two blogs are not credible.

I linked to NASA and what they had to say about climate change, did you read it or dismiss it?

I've sited many other links and so have other posters who have contributed to this thread, did you read those or dismiss it?

In your post you failed to mention particles coming into our atmosphere from space, I believe them to be highly energized and affecting our core.

I can promise you, not everything bad is coming from our sun. It's blasting us from everywhere because MAN is so far away from his goal its sickening.

Humanity has a role here..... We cannot deny that! Well, I guess some of us can. Lol



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by bobs_uruncle
 


Gosh, I don't even know where to quote you as your last two posts also represent the other side of my mind. The pessimist side. Lol

I'm not sure what is actually going on in our Solar System, that's a whole other debate within itself. I've educated myself on it but not sure who is giving the most accurate data. I lean more with the Metaphysical community I believe.

We have a lot going against us, that's for sure.




Neither President is " good" in my book and they all do in fact lie..... No doubt.

All the OP is saying is I'm glad he mentioned it, the fact he did surprised me!

I have children and so I don't want to make such a stench in the air that I'm killed or hunted down as you described, that would sure suck! Lol

Personally what I can do to help is what I'm prepared to do. I only have control over me and that's my fight, along with a voice.

Obama, as far as I know did indeed ask for a $! Load of data from scientists when he first got into office and whether or not it's a bs move is not for me to try and determine. Again, I'm glad he asked.

I'm one who doesn't even believe we REALLY AND TRULY have a vote, I don't think our vote counts.... I think whoever THEY choose is who will be our next president.

They are all bought and paid for.


Mama, your being open to some hard facts. Something others seem to have issues with doing when it comes to the Geo-thermal affects we witness daily. I agree with your thinking process even if I have some reasons to not agree with everything on your mind in this thread.

Now if you care to consider:


I think the sun is doing things we've never witnessed as humans and it is doing things that our geological records of magnetic pole shift and sudden climate change have shown since the inception of the science of geology. We are in that Chinese curse of being "blessed to live in interesting times". Some theology's think people choose to come into the world on their spirit's desire and maybe we did. But know that our knowledge of the future climate is only going to be based on what we turn up in the rocks and they tell a story that we've been here before and were going there again and again. Ice ages and warming periods are the facts. Huge events that wiped out various civilization are recorded too. It will happen again and we must prepare by going to space and colonizing planets elsewhere. Not by paying Al Gore a tax. That will only hurt us all and do nothing.

here is how to get off oil but oil interests will not allow it.

freeenergynews.com...


Plus while Al was a professor at MTSU in Tennessee, They had built a car that runs on WATER but only got Nissan of NA to build one of them. Al said not ONE WORD about it. What does that tell you about the truth and who is fudging it?



edit on 9-9-2012 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by Justoneman
 


I am sorry I am not making fun of anything I will be looking are the other document you have But I need to point out the falsely in the document of former NASA employees first as it was not proof to there not being climate change please look over my post again before passing judgment and if I missed something please point it out.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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Too many people are making this a POLITICAL issue, when it is a survival of the species issue. Jesus people! What people are willing to do to make a buck.. They'd cut off their nose to spite their face if there was a buck to be made. Our problem is complicated, yet simple all at the same time. You can turn a blind eye, try arguing by authority (LOOK! These people agree with me, and I declare them some type of authority! Or I'll pretend to be an authority myself!) but it's really simple: Our current system is unsustainable. Like I said earlier, it's basic math: An exponential system using finite resources will run out of resources. Our current use of resources, the pollution it causes to get those resources, and the pollution caused by utilizing those resources, not to mention the pollution caused by distributing those resources are all interconnected.

Our pollution output is also very very connected to that exponential growth thing we've set-up for our world economies. We are polluting more and more every year. Look, I'm not trying to make a buck off of human misery, but there are plenty of people out there who do. Our economic policies are not designed for efficiency or sustainability, but rather based on greed and exploitation. Our industrial practices have a direct, detrimental effect on our environment, and these detrimental practices are compounding and growing every year, on a global scale.

At some point, we have to figure out a better system for ourselves, or we will go extinct as a species. Now, you can argue about WHEN that point will come, but every day we ignore these issues, we are taking one step closer to our own annihilation. Unless, of course, there are people out there who think our industrial/commercial waste (and just about everything we produce has pollutions connected to it) is good for the environment, but people can be really short-sighted, especially if you wave a little money under their nose.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Justoneman
 


I am sorry I am not making fun of anything I will be looking are the other document you have But I need to point out the falsely in the document of former NASA employees first as it was not proof to there not being climate change please look over my post again before passing judgment and if I missed something please point it out.


And that IS FAIR.


I am saying that when there is not consensus the media is still looking us in the face and lying. They destroy the chances for honest debate and science is nothing without honest debates.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by Justoneman
 


All I want is honest debate. I want to get to the truth of the matter. Document either hold merit or they do not and I take each one seriously. Thank you.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:37 AM
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I would add one more thing before I take my leave.

We have people speaking out a lot about why wait? Well there truly are working motors that NASA engineers have given their thumbs up to as early as the 70'e like the Howard Johnson motor. However, the people who are the deciders, decided to belittle any design IMHO because of greed. Power and greed are interjecting the ideas away and those who''ve brought trillions of $ to their family will not walk away from those schemes. Just as many would not do if they had the power and the money. Those people don't want cheap efficient, common sense-ical and free from their apparently tyrannically controlled, energy sources. They control the whole planet through energy re-sources allocation and that need to control is, obviously to me, driving the "Hockey stick" Man-Made Global Warming hoax so many here seem to want to believe.



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Justoneman
 


All I want is honest debate. I want to get to the truth of the matter. Document either hold merit or they do not and I take each one seriously. Thank you.


Who decides if it has merit is the eye of the beholder and this eye says there is merit. I have the right background and you can take that to the bank. If you choose to ignore me, fine. Data will eventually tell us and there are collectors on the side of truth working to bring it TO YOU. You must be opened minded enough to start doubting what our lying eyes have been telling us before the media put the spin on it. The Sun is our main problem and if we did not have it we could not heat up the earth enough to live here. That is all there ever was. Greedy people exploit people through money who go and do their bidding. Any against the the man made version are ostracized thus making the common Joe six pack types THINK they know what is happening. Even in the face of the PhD professionals who come out to share their views against the mounting faked evidence.

Climatologist Joe Bastardi would be one I would at least entertain if you wanted to have a chance to hear a professionals speak on the Solar reasons for why the weather is so strange (weather by definition includes the geological affects the sun has such as EQ's by the way).



posted on Sep, 9 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


When I was going to school... way back when, They sent a probe to Venus and discovered Venus had a high surface temperature (around 800 degrees F) They also discovered Venus had an atmosphere composed mostly of Carbon Dioxide.

They brilliantly extrapolated (without any farther research)..."Venus is hot and it has a carbon dioxide atmosphere and the reason it is hot must be from a "greenhouse effect" caused by the carbon dioxide." Since then they've had a difficult time proving carbon dioxide is truly a greenhouse gas.

I call this brilliant piece of science "The Venus Syndrome" based on an assumption.

Now, since COO is not playing out too well, they've switched to methane. This planet has and has had for unknown millions of years an abundance of methane. It bubbles up from the oceans, the land, animal digestion from rotting vegetation and even from flatulent humans. They wanted to tax farmers and rancher a flatulence tax.

We used to eat a lot of beans back on the farm and we certainly contributed mightily.

I know a flatulence tax would not fix the methane problem, unless you consider the die off of the human race from starvation.

edit on 9-9-2012 by elfrog because: addition





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